Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I'll have to buy a IAT sensor as I can't seem to locate the original. If the factory O2 sensors can in fact be deleted I'm all for that. If a one wire alternator will cure the no charge problem I'll gladly order one to get away from that aggravation quickly.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Don't delete the O2's. You'd be in open loop (no feedback to the computer). You don't need that right now. You probably don't need that ever, but it's option later on when you become more familiar with tuning efi.

It's running smoother now because you have closed loop when you installed both O2's.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I didn't realized you had left the IAT off also, lol. Remember, unlike a carb, an efi system is only as good as the info it receives. Make certain all of the sensors are not only hooked up, but in good operating order. If you need to replace any sensors, buy Motorcraft.
As far as eliminating the o2's, yes it can be done, but at this stage of your learning curve it will be much easier to tune with them in, and they will not hurt you in any way as far as making power with them being there.
They will make the whole tuning process much more forgiving.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Bought a new IAT sensor and put it in. Also bought a new MAP sensor, but I don't see any evidence anything has changed. Car still starts and idles tho, Scheduled Wednesday morning to get the front-end lined up. I have some new screenshots of the controller while running that I will post when I get home this evening.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich,

Also make sure your injector ground is connected to the engine and your engine has a good ground strap to the firewall. EFI needs good grounds! The main computer ground should be clean and tight as well and should be on the driver side front inner fender below starter relay.

The ground for the injector harness usually goes on a upper bell housing bolt.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Yes, I have all those grounds tight plus some Brian. Question for you efi users...what do you all use to determine if specific sensors are working properly at any given time? I have this controller screen to view some of them, but was wondering how others know what exactly individual sensors are reading in real time.

Some screenshots from initial firing this afternoon -

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pscyrhrrap.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps583wp6gl.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psruckeuct.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psngvgnohs.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psmxqlryfd.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psm6byonqb.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psmhxuu7cd.jpg

Putting the car on blocks in the morning to set pinion angle and lock everything down.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I'll see if I can check my car so you can use it as a reference.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich,
These older Ford EFI systems didn't give live data so as Ford Tech we installed a "break out box) interface between the EEC processor and harness that had exposed pins where we could measure the pin voltages with a digital volt meter. You can do similar sensor checks with a thin paperclip and your voltmeter by slipping the clip along side the sensor wire in the sensors backshell until it hits the connector (back probing) and directly measure voltage coming from the sensor wire to ground and comparing to spec. Most 3 wire sensors have a wire that is 5V reference (orange) Sensor Ground (Black) and sensor output (green or some other color). I just probe and can identify signal wire (usually the one in the middle) that has the voltage between o and 5. Two wire sensors (IAT and ECT) jut tap into either ide and read voltage. Take readings with sensors hooked up.

Typical Values at idle and warm

TP around 1 volt
Baro 159 HZ +/-6 (Frequency, set meter on HZ)
ECT 1,3-..6 Warm
IAT 1.3 -.6 Warm
MAF 1V-? More with more air going through.

Make sure MAF wire is clean and doesn't have contaminants on it...maf is a major player with A/F.

Good luck!

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich,

Looking at your photos, you don't have a vacuuum line hooked to baro do you? It looks like the same as a MAP sensor but baro's just read atmospheric pressure so the connection is open, no vacuum goes to that sensor.

Look like TP and IAT/ECT are working just curious of that Baro reading at -29.HG

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

If that's barometric pressure as in weather, 29 hg is about right for Rich's area. Atlanta is 30 right now. The - could be a dash or a wiring glitch generating a negative value. EFI is a black box to me, so this is just a guess.

Dale

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Brian -

The only vacuum line I have hooked up on the car is the one you recommended to the fuel pressure regulator.

This sensor I replaced yesterday is the Map, correct?

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pscyrhrrap.jpg

The Baro is one I have not seen. Where in the engine bay/harness would it be located if in fact it is still present?

Edit : Ok, seems the sensor pictured above is actually a "BAP" sensor. I asked for a Map sensor at the parts store...any difference? At any rate this is the only sensor that resembles this in the engine compartment. Found this link for sensor locations... http://www.cjponyparts.com/tech-fox-body-engine/a/170/

Found this link also... http://sbftech.com/index.php?topic=19336.0

Fuel line fittings just arrived and I'm off to re-plumb the system as recommended. I also have a one wire alternator in hand so I can finally stop worrying with the thought of low voltage being a player in all of this.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

The BAP/ MAP sensors are pretty much the same thing. On my factory speed density setup a vacuum line attaches to the sensor. When you are running factory Mass Air you would remove the vacuum line from the sensor and just leave the port open. I can't comment on how it is done with an aftermarket setup.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Got it pretty much done today. The new Bap sensor shows no change on the screen of the controller...I may at a later date check voltage/Hz readings per Brian to see whats up with it.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6erwlaai.jpg

I do have a 3-bar MAP sensor that came with the PMS. I think it was used in a blown application. Not sure if it could be used in my case...it would require a harness/connector that I do not have on hand.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psipjpx6xz.jpg

Fuel system is now plumbed correctly. I have the regulator set at 36psi...will need to check what it does at WOT. For now the car starts easily and idles well with no loading up.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psvaxyd59x.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psp6jzjxkl.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psbwhygryk.jpg

One wire alternator installed and working wonderfully.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps4ba7s9ck.jpg

Coolant catch can in place.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psdfue6bpu.jpg

Pulled it out on the concrete pad out front to check the brakes/linelock. No hesitation at all when stalled to 2800rpm and stabbed WOT.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psdtpujbgq.jpg





http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pshmm9gxbc.jpg

Buster, the useless guard dog.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psvpf7oyzz.jpg

Pinion angle set around 4 degrees. As far as I can tell it's ready for the track as soon as the front-end is aligned. Hope to have the car at Bowling Green next Saturday evening for a shakedown run.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Just for reference, the BARO reading in this area (elevation 1050) is about 157Hz. Different area's will vary, higher elevation, lower Hz.

Earlier I wasn't really suggesting locking out the O2 sensors. I just wanted to know if that particular unit had the capability. @ full throttle the stock ECU ignores input from the O2's, uses pre-programmed values until throttle goes under about 80%.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Car looks good Rich. It has been a great build to watch, you should be proud.
David, the Anderson Ford PMS he is running is a piggyback system that will allow the factory ecm to do as much or as little as you want. If I remember correctly, it can go into full standalone mode over 2000 rpm, if you want it too. They are a good, simple system to use.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Yes, I have standalone activated @ 10 percent TPS and 2500rpm for the fuel and timing tables. I have taken 10 percent fuel away @ idle and zeroed the values @ WOT due to the 24 pound injectors pending wideband readings on the track. The Acell table was a stab in the dark, but my initial programming seems close by yesterday's stabs on the concrete pad.

I did not dabble at all in any of the part throttle settings. My only concern atm is will the engine start easily, idle cleanly and be sufficiently lean at WOT. Btw, I changed out those Southside lift bars for straight lowers for the time being...figured the less I had to deal with getting it down the track to begin with the better. I did put the swaybar back on...will see after the first outing if an airbag in the RR will be needed.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich,

Looks like you are getting in the ballpark..thats the toughest hurdle to get over. Keep the digital factory baro..the analog GM MAP will not work without programming and a harness and it has no advantage to your Baro sensor. If you wish to see if your baro is responding on your controller, take a reading with the key on engine off and apply some vacuum to the baro port with a hand pump and see if the baro changes on your scanner. If it changes ...I guess its working and responding...the HZ check on the sensing wire will tell for sure.

Good luck on the shakedowns...I'd shoot for about a 13:1 A/F to run well, my ET falls off a bunch below 12.8.

Good Luck!

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Thanks Brian - I need to weld another bung in the collector for the wideband before Saturday for sure. If I understand this PMS correctly when in standalone mode it will try to maintain a 12.8 A/F ratio. I may in the end need to take it out of standalone and manually input data to get it leaner at WOT.

You were correct about the timing advancing wildly under light load...I have seen up to 42 degrees winging the engine at the shop in the controller screen. It would probably be money well spent to invest in some type of recorder to review all parameters with known settings after a blast down the track. Considering this... http://www.andersonfordmotorsport.co...icro-flashacq/

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Loaded for the early morning alignment appointment. Those low profile ramps were the best solution I could come up with to be able to open the door over the trailer fender with this low slung pig. The next time I load I will try elevating just the fronts or rears to see if it clears. I did manage to get the O2 bung installed while on the trailer for the wideband sensor. Initial outing will be with those Goodrich TA radial DOT tires on it...18psi sound about right with a light burnout? If the car shows potential I will order some M/T 26" drag radials.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pssjlkmn7d.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psq8xwrtkw.jpg

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Those ramps look interesting. How tall are they, and where did you buy them?

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Perry Simpkins asked me the same question today when he saw them. He has the same problem in his enclosed trailer...been crawling out the window for years lol. I got mine online, but can't recall the vendor. These on ebay look identical to the ones I have... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Automotive-C...270181&vxp=mtr

Edit: I just bought Perry a set for his car. He does a ton of free stuff for me anyway...besides, I sometimes load his car in the trailer lol.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Back from alignment. Alan could not do much with camber on this car...said even with camber kits it would still be far away from where he would like to see it. I'll make the first pass in it before handing it off to Kenny to ensure it doesnt act squirrelly at speed.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6bu2iwuy.jpg

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I've got the same issue with my convertible street car even with caster camber plates. It drives fine, though. My race car is a hatchback, and doesn't have that problem.

I don't know if it's legal, but you may want to get a bolt on strut tower brace. It may help.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I can't find any wording in the rule book that would prohibit a strut tower brace. I wonder if it could be used to correct a camber problem, or would it just prevent further movement? I'm thinking a mix of camber plates and those offset camber adjustment bolts would bring it into spec...no idea if it would be worth doing tho.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

There is a real simple fix for your problem. If you could call me at 12 CST iam at lunch and can give you the details.

Kirk 210-887-3331

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I think the brace is a necessity for the convertible, and you could make the case with any rational tech inspector that it needs to be there. You would have to get the car off the ground and probably use a jack and piece of pipe to push out the towers a bit to get the brace to fit. Once installed, the towers shouldn't move inward any more or at least not as much.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

When I lowered my '87 (if lowering is the cause of your problem), I had to slot the holes that the plates mount on to get the camber.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

No doubt the car is lower with those 4-cylinder front springs not to mention all the wear and tear on the street all those years...these cars are made of nothing. I don't have the experience with them to say one way or another what the effect will be on the track. If its negligible I will put it out of mind and concentrate on other areas.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psvpf7oyzz.jpg

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Convertibles had an upper tower brace and also a lower brace, from the front of the crossmember to the radiator frame.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I had seen it mentioned somewhere that a tower brace was optional from the factory on these cars, but I have never seen one myself. That lower X-brace you mentioned would have little to no effect on camber in my opinion...just not located to be of any value in that area.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

by trying to install the front tower brace if the car is sitting on the ground you will find that the holes on the brace will be off maybe as much as 1/2 the diameter of the bolt--- when you raise the car the towers will tend to sag outward and you can then easily install the brace as the holes will be perfectly aligned to the bolt and just drop down into position--- when you let the car down the flex you have been experiencing will have gone away due to the tower brace doing its job--- you might get those 2* camber back you are looking for-- plus it will stiffen the chassis/front end --FED 387

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I would be willing to install one if I knew the camber was going to be a player in et/mph for this car in a significant way.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

With the amount of flex during launch and the better handling at the top end, it will help.
Believe me, I am building a Comp Eliminator Super Modified Mustang and know very well how much the body flexes.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich, your mid to high 12 second, 3500lbs pony going 103ish will never need the brace. My 94 had an OE brace. I took it off and saved the 15lbs and never felt a difference. Run 30psi or more in the skinnies and 26lbs or more in the rear radials. It will ride like a mouse with slippers. Stop very well also.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Thanks guys for the input.

Charlie - I would like to see a picture of one of those OE braces as I have never seen one on a car.

Cleaned up a little in the engine bay...still some wiring to be dealt with at some point. Looks like we are still on for the Saturday Combo race at Bowling Green. I'll be running the Camaro and will make a pass in the Mustang to verify it's safety before turning it over to Kenny for the remainder of the evening.

We decided to just run the Mustang Saturday evening in the fun races so I can attempt to dial in a tune it likes. Once sorted out I'll bring it back for some Combo action. Kenny will be driving this one at the Hot Rod Reunion in June.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pspt1mxb0u.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psp5a416po.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psiytiicqi.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psjkaw2kzw.jpg

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Looks good.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

try this link Rich
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Strut-Tower-...2adc84&vxp=mtr

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Thanks Charlie - Guess that pretty much answers the question of it's legality on the car. Were they also available on the '79-'93 year models?

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Never have seen an OE brace on a Fox body, possible on a Cobra. PartsBob could verify that.....................
Are you running mufflers or an X pipe? Either or both would be a cheap increase in bottom torque for you, something those motors have very little of.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

nothing I can find in the NHRA rule book mentions shock strut braces either way---- only thing mentioned is that the suspension must remain OEM this has nothing to do with suspension it is a "body strengthening support"!!!--- check with NHRA get a definite ruling -- it is not a performance enhancing modification it is a safety or steering issue you are dealing with here--- If it were me I'd put one one show up at the track and if they did not like it pull it off otherwise plead your case and run the damn thing FED 387