Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

As I said, forget about the PMS until you have actually set the TPS with a multimeter. After it is set, enter the reading from the TPS into the table on the PMS, then follow the instruction I posted to make adjustments.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Finally got the controller to recognize the TPS voltage settings. I now have WOT! :)

https://youtu.be/6jTVYwTM3K8

http://vid434.photobucket.com/albums...psonczvbiu.mp4

I messed with the MAP/BAP sensor for a bit...pulling a vacuum on the port has no effect. I don't have a meter on hand that reads Hertz. I also need to learn how to test the MAF to determine if it is in good working order.

Bad news is the new one wire alternator has quit charging. I'll send it back Monday for a replacement. Radial slicks to ship out Monday.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Hindsight -

Sitting in the truck this evening drinking a cup of coffee near the end of my shift I realized something that I overlooked at the beginning of this build. The car was running when I purchased it, but ran poorly. What I should have done before rushing to strip it down was to investigate the reason(s) for the ratty state...that likely would have saved me countless hours of head scratching down the road.

I did not take into account I would be re-using most of the existing sensors/wiring and would have been ahead of the curve by simply hooking a scanner to it and retrieving some codes...lesson learned. As it stands right now I strongly suspect a defective ECU...a bad wire harness seems less likely atm. I'll know more later today after a couple of tests which include bypassing the PMS to eliminate it as a source of sorrow.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

When I took the cover off the computer to install the Quarter Horse in my convertible, I noticed that the legs on some capacitors had corroded away. The other components were fine, since the motherboard has a coating on it to cover them. But the legs on the capacitors are exposes to the elements and will corrode over time.

I replaced all of the capacitors. There are electrolytic capacitors and a couple of tantalum capacitors. But, this is not such an easy job. You have to gently remove the coating on both sides of the motherboard to de-solder and re-solder the components without ruining the tracings or the solder pads.

My advice...take a look. If the capacitors are secure and not bulging, then you're probably fine. If not, then you should probably try to repair it before going out and buying a replacement. It's not hard to replace the capacitors, it's just tedious.

Those computers are made to last. They used top of the line components, and protected them with a very durable covering. You're probably fine.

Again, you just got started. Take it one step at a time.

A good way to get a baseline is to replace all of your sensors including the O2's. Clean the connections from the harness to each component, clamp them a little to make them tight and reconnect using dielectric grease. This is especially important for the O2's. There are the connections at each O2 sensor, and then a connection near the passenger strut tower Do them all. Make sure you do the same at the two multi-pin connectors on the upper manifold.

Then, bring it to the track and make one change at a time. Log each pass.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I did the same thing when we purchased an 86 Svo for my stocker build and come to find out the wire loom was spliced and damaged in numerous places.. We had issues of sensors not working all the time thus the complete rewiring and basic start over.. We live and learn .. Scott

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Thanks guys - I won't be going back to the track until all sensors are verified as working. As it stands now the only engine sensors I have installed are the O2's, MAF, BAP, ECT, ATC and TPS...the EGR was deleted and the PCV has been plugged.

Going to the shop shortly to retest the BAP...Brian filled me in last night I should have been probing the battery grd instead of the grd at the harness.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Did some probing today and verified the MAF is working correctly. The BAP sensor problem still plagues me tho...the only sensor that is not functioning. The color code of the wiring in the engine compartment is slightly different from the schematic...it is correct at the ECM termination point however. I don't have a clue where the transition occurs.

Schematic - http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/te...ng_Diagram.gif

VREF color at the sensor is Brown/White (shows Orange/White on the schematic). It has the correct voltage of 5.07v key on/engine off.

Signal return is Grey/Red (shown as Black/White on the schematic). It has .04v.

BP is Green/Black which is correct all the way and has 2.58v. When I try the Hz scale on the meter it does not move from zero. There is only one scale on this meter for Hz (20K)...wrong scale for this test?

I did a continuity test on the BP wire from the sensor to the ECM connector and it appears solid...I am baffled at this point and don't know what to do next.

There was a 3 bar MAP sensor that came with the PMS and a short jumper attached to the piggyback harness. When I plug the 3 bar in the screen instantly shows it functioning...I can move the reading by applying suction to the port. I don't know if this could be used in lieu of the barometer sensor for this car/computer. Open to any suggestions as I'm totally stumped on this one.

Btw, I did bypass the PMS and went straight to the ECM as a test as well...still no Hz reading, but the engine still fires and runs.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich, this car seems to have taught you some kind of ''new'' language. I don't understand what it is your saying anymore! Bap-Map-Hertz and Diode. You didn't hit your head or something did you?

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich, here is a good test procedure for your BAP circuit and sensor.


http://sbftech.com/index.php?topic=19336.0

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Thanks Tony - I did all the tests except the sensor unplugged portion described in the article...will try that tm. The PMS has a diagnostic that stores fault codes, but it shows none.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

did you look at the procedure to set the distributor at sbftech? if you set the distributor like a crank trigger it will run but not not perform well at all.. I know this sounds very simple to do but if it it installed wrong it will not run fast.. The injectors are fired off the wheel in the distributor . Just a thought after I sold a car that I had a TON of money in and it would not run very fast and I installed the distributor incorrectly.. haha

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Pretty sure the distributor is in correctly, but I'll eyeball it again.

Alternator due back today and I'm going to stop and pick up two new O2 sensors just for good measure. The recorder for the PMS should arrive tm...I will then be able to log/review runs to do some intelligent tuning.

If all goes as planned I will forgo the TNT Friday at Bowling Green for the SportsNationals and haul the Mustang back to Buffalo Valley Friday evening for some tuning. I'll just roll into BG Saturday morning with the Camaro.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

It was there all the time...just needed a better meter to read it.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps1xyorvtj.jpg

I'm going to say I have been chasing a non-existent problem all week. According to Anderson that line in the screen is for the boost tables only...not sure it would ever read the true barometric pressure. Oh well, with the TPS at 100% and the new O2 sensors I'm ready to try it again.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Good news. Real nice meter. Keep us posted. Get the car to hook just right, and then work the timing a bit. Have fun.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I know your at bg but did u get to test the mustang? I saw your q2 pass and it looked pretty nice ..

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Yes, took it to Buffalo Valley Friday nite. Got it running decent, but according to the recorder timing is maxing out at 30 degrees. Have not figured out yet how to bump it up with the controller.

I'll be back at BG in the morning...will not make the same mistake I did first round of the NitroPlate race. :mad:

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

How did it do?

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Only managed a 8.35 Tony with the timing limited to 30 degrees and the starting line slip. I'll have to take it back to BG once I figure out how I somehow locked the timing out.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psf5ycb9v0.jpg

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Believe I have the timing issue resolved...will have to record a pass to confirm. Added 120 pounds ballast today so it will be legal weight the next race. Found out this afternoon the replacement one-wire alternator has quit charging again. The only thing I can think of off hand is that small crank pulley must be spinning it too fast. When it was working it showed around 14.1 volts at idle.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich,
What brand alternator do you have? My East Coast Electric has a small pulley and a 4.5" pulley on the crank. It see's over 7000 engine RPM for the last 7 seasons on every pass without issue. The alternator should be self regulating regardless of RPM. What gauge of wire did you use from the alt to the battery?

Sean

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

This one Sean... http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...oductId=752892

The set-up as run...

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psgai39o0o.jpg

Just grasping at straws here. I did not have any 10 gauge wire on hand so I paralleled two 12 gauge wires to the battery positive and a short 10 gauge ground from the alternator case to a head.

Edit: Just re-read the instructions and it states no Jegs alternators are designed to to be spun beyond 15,000rpm (6000 engine rpm). :rolleyes: I can try it one more time with a large crank pulley or purchase another brand alternator. At this juncture I just want one that works without worry.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Just a heads up....

I think that you have it backwards....

Big crank pulley & small alternator pulley = overdrive

Small crank pulley & large alternator pulley = under-drive

4" crank pulley with 2" alt pulley at 7,000 rpm engine RPM = 14,000 alternator RPM

2" crank pulley with 4" alt pulley at 7,000 rpm engine RPM = 3,500 alternator RPM

Hope this makes sense to you and helps......

Bob

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

As stated above, the small crank pulley slows it down.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

You know, that is what I thought as well but I let someone talk me into that one lol. With that out of the way I can see no reason for two failures in a row other than these alternators are junk.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

This may be true. I had a Powermaster that wouldn't charge my Optima so I replaced it with a 140 amp Tuff Stuff connected as a one wire. It worked fine then went haywire and put out 44 volts to the battery. I popped the cover to the two terminals for a three wire hookup and jumped one to the battery output on the alternator based on something I read on the Internet. Makes little sense to me but it works now. Whatever internally activates the regulator crapped out, I guess.

Dale

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Rich a one wire alt. has to turn around 2000 rpm to excite it for it to start charging. Once it starts charging it stays until you shut off the engine


Joe

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

This one excites at 880rpm...when its working. http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performan...oductId=752892

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Bob is right on. That crank pulley has to be close to 3.5", if the alt pulley is 2", that calculates to 12,250 at 7000 RPM. At 1000 RPM the alt is only at 1750 RPM.
Will the alt produce any voltage if you increase the engine RPM to 2000 or 3000?

Sean

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

From the beginning both alternators worked fine, even at idle. I guess they lasted part of one stint each at the track when I realized they were no longer charging. You can wing it to six grand if you like...it aint happening. Something inside the alternator is just not holding up it's end of the bargain.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Just went through a similar issue. The one wire alternator didn't excite until 2500 alternator rpm. With the combination of a large alternator pulley and small crank pulley, there wasn't a lot of time that the alternator was putting anything back into the battery. To make things worse, the alternator had a bad diode and rectifier so it was only putting out 15 amps when it was charging. :( Had it rebuilt and now it works fine.

Changed the charging system to a larger 74 amp constant output alternator with a 6" crank pulley. The excite power wire runs through a heavy duty toggle switch on the dash so the alternator can be turned off during a run. -Al

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

As long as he has a good alternator, his pulley sizes are fine. I have ran the same pulley set up on 7 different cars with no issues, although I have always used Powermaster 1 wire alternators.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I'm going to try this one guys... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tff-70686g

Listed for '85 models, but I don't see any difference in the case. Funny how the old one on the Camaro has never had an issue. What's the cheapest alternative in a Powermaster Tony?

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

That's for a serpentine belt, one of those set ups with several things running off the crank pulley. I don't know if it will work correctly with the simple set up you have now.

What happened to your alternator sounds just like what happened to mine. It was a one wire that charged at idle and then just quit, except mine continued to put out a high voltage of around 44. I popped a rubber plug off the top of mine to expose two terminal connections and jumped the drivers side one to the BAT terminal on the alternator. It allowed the output voltage of the spinning alternator to turn the charging circuit on. It outputs 13 some volts at idle now.

Once I realized my one wire could be set up as a three wire, I used post 4 in this thread for the wiring:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...ernator.30629/

I have no ignition key, just a lever for my battery cutoff in the trunk so I skipped the wire to switched ignition part. No issue with run on.

Dale

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

I am using the serpentine pulleys/belt Dale. Still using the ignition key in the column...all I need is a alternator that will not fail. I don't really care what the rpm cut-in is...all I need do is blip the throttle one time and it will charge until the key is turned off. Probably need to install a voltmeter so I will know it is actually working at any given moment. I should'nt even need a battery charger with this car...with both fans and the pump running it takes very little time to cool down.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psiytiicqi.jpg

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Voltmeter is a good idea. It helped me with my electrical gremlins and it's cheap. I didn't notice the idler pulley on your system. Good luck.

Note: Voltmeter is just voltage and will tell you how much juice is flowing in your system. It will let you see if your system is draining juice or holding at charge while running. Amp meter is more complicated to connect and will tell the amp output of the alternator.

EDIT: I looked back through your photos and I still don't see what I'd call a serpentine belt. Maybe we have the same thing in mind with different terms. I call what you have in the photos a V belt. It just runs the alternator. Serpentine runs multiple devices:

http://marchperf.com/gallery_images/30126.jpg

Dale

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

It's a serpentine belt running one device...straight from the alternator to the crank pulley, no idler. I went with it because I originally intended to use the factory alternator. A v-belt would not work well on these ribbed pulleys.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Seems that ribbed belts are called serpentine without regards to how long they are or what they run. Learned something today.

Go play.

Dale

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Serpentine belts the groves run the length of the belt--- Cogged belts the grove run across the belt--- cogged belts use pulleys that look somewhat like gears -- you can also change the rpm of the pulley ever so slightly by altering the tooth count of the pulley- dry sump and fuel injection pumps are good examples of cogged belt uses---- while serpentine belts use pulleys that the groves look like circles on the surface of the pulley and you are restricted to only a few different diameters -most modern automotive systems use them generally in conjunction with either an idler or tensioner depending on the application

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

PowerMaster 8-57100 $165 from Summit.

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 

Thanks Tony...I'll go with it. ;)