Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

This week, at the Jegs SPORTSnationals, Rob Holmes was the highest qualified Pontiac powered Stocker, @ #14, with his '77 Bird. Chris Stephenson was #26, with his '68 Bird. Julie Biermann was #63 with her '68 Bird. Bob Michael was #77, with his '77 Catalina. Billy Nees was #84, with his '79 Lemans. Billy Foder was #98, with his '72 T/A. Don Turk was #122, with his '71 T-37.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop

There are 2 Pontiac Stockers out at the div 7 race. Ryan Warter is there, with his '75 Formy. He's #33 on the list. Bryan Phillips' '67 Bird is there. Blayke Phillips is the driver. (kinfolk I assume) #36 on the list.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop

Good luck to all the Pontiac powered racers ! :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

They ran class elims yesterday, @ the Jegs SPORTSnationals.

Rob Holmes won the J/SA class, with his '77 Formy.

Bob Michael won the L/SA class. with his '77 Cat.

Billy Nees won the Combo-Auto class, with his 301 '79 Lemans.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

In E/SA, it appeared that Chris Stephenson had the 8-car E/SA field covered by a tenth, with his '68 Bird. He had the only car in the 10's, with a 10.89. But, he slowed for some reason, in round 2. Anybody know why ?:confused:

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Just thought I'd also throw this in here. In yesterday's qualifying, Julie Biermann ripped off a 10.579, good enuff for #19. Don't know what the car's best time is, when running D/SA. Guessing it couldn't be much quicker than that. Don't know where that performance went, for the class run.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Once again, if I've already asked these questions, I apologize.

But, if I got the answers, I don't remember.

#83 on this list is Todd Kuhn, driving a '70 GTO, which I assume runs the Hi CR 455 engine.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

(1) Since there are usually guys here who know all the history of many Stockers, can somebody please give me the history of this car, before Todd owned it ?

Edit: I just ran across a DRC file from 2010 which listed a '70 GTO Stocker. The driver's name was Allen Hollingsworth, from Marsholl, IL. Assuming that is the same car that Todd has been racing.

#103 on the list is Karson Kuhn, driving a '73 Bird. Since he has the same last name as Todd & lived in the same town, I assume they are kin.

https://www.facebook.com/karson.kuhn

(2) Can someone give me their connection ?

(3) What is the history of that '73 Bird, before that race & since ? Just a loaner for a race or 2, maybe ?

Edit: I knew the name Allen Hollingsworth was in my files, having a Pontiac class car. Looked him up. He has an early '70's Bird. I'm guessing that is the same Bird that Karson drove in a race or 2. Think I'll get all the info on these cars/drivers, soon.

Here's a '15 race where Todd & Allen are on the same list. Allen was running the Bird as an E/SA '71, then. But, he later changed it over to a G/SA '73 model.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

In Stock qualifying, at this week's div 5 doubleheader at Topeka, #3 on the Q-list was a 400 Pontiac powered '74 Formula Bird, driven by Jeremy Romero. #4 on the list was a '74 GTO driven by Brad Koivisto. I assume it's the quickest Stock class '74 GTO ever.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Not familiar with the name Jeremy Romero. But since he's listed as being from CO, I assumed he was driving the car the Burtons call "Grimace". Found out that is correct.

"Yes, that's the same car Brad drove in Denver last month.
Jeremy is Ted Romero's son and Bernie's grandson and he's an excellent racer. He's a past track champion at Bandimere in the Stock/Super Stock Combo."

Would also appreciate some good pics of the car, especially at the track.

https://www.facebook.com/BradleyJBur...type=3&theater

Just got this pic, from a guy who was at the track.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Topeka 2nd Race:

Brad Koivisto's '74 GTO was #3 on the Stock Q-list. Jeremy Romero was #14.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Brad survived E-1, but got treed in E-2.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

I read that the Baby Blue Firebird Formula Stocker that Michael Brand has raced now for several years, is the same car that Larry Maxwell once raced.

Is this correct ? :confused:

Both are pictured below.

Have also read that Scott Burton is the guy who helped Michael set up his Bird & get started racing Pontiacs. Is this correct ? I did notice that Michael was listed as the driver of a Burton Bird, on more than one list.

Still confused about the Burton Birds. Was the Bird that Scott raced as a 1970 B/SA car the same one he'd raced for years as a '71, '72, & '73 ? :confused:

When Brad 1st began racing, He drove a car listed as a '72 model, & Scott drove one listed as a '71 model. So, which one of those cars was the one Scott had been racing for years ? :confused:

For the 2nd Bird Stocker they began racing, who did they buy it from, OR did they build it from scratch, OR did Scott already have 2 Bird Stockers ? :confused:

Thanks to any & all who can help me get all the facts straight, regarding these 3 Birds. :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

OK, some questions get answered & some don't.

The only way I know of to come up with more info/history is to keep searching & keep asking questions. And, since there are more long time class racers on this site than anywhere else, I'll just keep asking here.

As I go thru more of the DRC records I keep running across names I don't know, as the driver of a Pontiac Stocker that looks like it could be a car that I've posted about. As all here know, there are usually one or more guys here who can rattle off the names of several people who owned/raced the same car.

A common thing that some will say is something like " He bought John Smith's(or what ever the previous owner's name was) old car."

Well, in my case, I may not have ever heard of that previous owner. And we all know of lots of cars that have had several owners, thru the years.

So, I assume that some names I mention may be just one of many owners of the same car. But, I like to know the history of cars that have been racing for a long time.

Therefore, I'll continue asking questions, beginning with this post.

The 1st car in question is a '72 GTO. I think it 1st came to my attention when I saw that it had won the Carolina Nats, in 2009.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

Or, I may have seen that it had qualified #7 & won the G/SA class at Indy, in 2008.

http://forums.maxperformanceinc.com/...15&postcount=1

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

OR, I may have 1st heard about it from Todd Hoven, himself. IIRC, he posted about the car in this thread. Thinks it would still be a decent combo.

Anyhow, I found 2 other names connected to a '72 GTO Stocker. The pic I have looks to be the same car Todd had. This car is supposed to belong to Troy Vogel, #5483.

#164 on this 2012 Indy Q-list shows #3332 Dennis Dunlap , as driver of a '72 GTO.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

There are just not that many '72 GTO's still in competition. So, was this 3 different owners of the same car ? Anybody know who originally set the car up to race Stock ? Any other owners ? Current owner ? Just wanna get all the facts straight. Don't like to post bad info. But, I HAVE made mistakes, lots of 'em.

As always, Thanks for help compiling all this info ! :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

The next car in question is the 455HO powered '72 Lemans that Larry Maxwell raced for several years.

The next driver i saw for the car was Stephanie Pike, from Canada. Car had a div 6 number. On the passenger side window was the name Jack Kostuk. Car # is 6026.

Just today noticed another name listed as driving a '72 Lemans, running E/SA. Don't remember which race, now. Made a note that says it was from 2011. The car # was 6300. Driver was Glenn Person, from Meza, AZ. Again, not aware of another active '72 Lemans Stocker, in recent years.

Does anybody know who set the car up to race, who Larry bought it from, who bought it from Larry, & any other owners it may have had ? :confused:

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

In lookin back at the pics I have for the Larry Maxwell '72 Lemans, I noticed a pic of a '72 Lemans wagon. Never have seen it on any of the DRC lists I looked at.

But, I think I got it figured out.

The background shows that the pic was taken in CO, at the "Home of the Mile-High Nationals". So, that means I should find the car listed either at the nat event, or a div 5 race held there.

But, there is no '72 Pontiac wagon listed. I did however find a Larry Maxwell driven '72 Firebird, at the 2006 Mile-High Nats. Funny thing is tho, it was running in the I/SA class. His '72 Bird was usually shown in either E/SA or F/SA, IIRC.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

Also found it on a list from a div 5 race, in Kansas.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

So, by simple reasoning, the Firebird part of the listing is wrong. But the rest of it is correct. It was actually the '72 Lemans wagon, running in I/SA. IIRC, that's one of the classes that Gary & Charlene Wood ran with their "Tons-a-Fun" '72 wagons.

So, does anybody here remember seeing Larry's '72 wagon ? Anybody know who he bought it from or sold it to, or any of it's history ? :confused:

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Since I posted about the Larry Maxwell wagon, thought I'd better post this also.

Was lookin thru the Larry Maxwell pics on Auto Imagery & found these pics of a '74 GTO that Larry raced. Maybe everybody but me already knew about it, as well as who had it before him & all the owners since.

But, I just saw this a few minutes ago. If I've ever seen this car I certainly don't remember it.

So, who knows all the car's history ?

Hope Auto Imagery don't do what photo bucket did. That messed up lots of car forum threads. :(

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...NQfJuo-&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...NQfJuo-&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...NQfJuo-&GI_ID=

Looks like maybe Larry was R/U with the GTO, at both the 1981 & '82 World Finals. :) Winning is better. But hey, R/U at the same Nat event 2 years in a row ain't bad.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1981

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1982

Anybody have pics of this car you can post ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Have posted about the Axemaker & Reuland '72 GTO.

Well, in doing some more research, I discovered that at one time there were actually 2 of these cars that looked similar. I'd noticed that in 1 of the pics I had, the paint job was slightly different, and one of the pics showed the car in a different class, as well as with a different perm number.

Here's the E/SA car @ Indy.

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...PLrJO8-&GI_ID=

Turns out that in 1998 & '99, both cars show up on the same Q-list. Harry Axemaker is listed as the driver of one & David Reuland for the other. One is called a Lemans. But, in '72, the GTO was just an option pkg on a Lemans. So, I'm assuming that the 2 cars in the pics below are the 2 cars shown on those Q-lists.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=55825

Then, the 3rd pic was taken in 2015, at BIR. There are several on Auto Imagery.

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...PLrJO8-&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...PLrJO8-&GI_ID=

The Q-list shows a '71 Bird, with Sam Reuland driving. But, the car is running H/SA, which is lower than the Axemaker & Reuland Bird ran.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

So, I have to assume that they took the GTO out for the big race at BIR, & the DRC info about the car being a Bird is wrong. Don't think they just took the GTO out to BIR for a photo shoot. But hey, I could be wrong. Anybody have any more info on this ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

The Axemaker & Reuland car is a local car (an hour West of me). It has a ton of history and has been around forever.

In your post #521, one of the cars pictured has some serious history, beginning with it's factory incarnation.

Brad Koivisto's killer fast '74 is currently being run as a Ventura, not a GTO.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Well, that's a very interesting post, which brings up more questions.

(1) So, what happened to the 2nd '72 Lemans or GTO, that is NOT the one you're talkin about. TWO cars & TWO drivers were mentioned on the same Q-list. Any info on the other car ? Did it also belong to either the Axemakers or the Reulands ? In fact, on that same Q-list, there was another '72 Lemans, driven by Jon Wacholtz. Anybody know anything about it ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=55825

(2) I assume the car you're talkin about, in post 521, is the T-37. I've read that it was the car that Rock Running raced, named "Super Sleeper". Then Ken Shawver raced it for a while. Danny Ashley had it & made a few improvements. Don Turk sold the Grand Am he'd raced for years, & now has the T-37. At least that's the story I've read. Somebody even posted a radio interview on which Rock told the whole story of how he got the car. I'll post a link to that interview. It should be very interesting to most Pontiac guys, up to the part where Rock went with Olds, somewhere around '82.

https://www.podomatic.com/podcasts/c...13_28_01-08_00

(3) All the pics I have of Brad's '74 show it to be a GTO, complete with the shaker hood & grill lights. I don't see an advantage of running a regular Ventura, unless you just don't wanna run the shaker scoop ? But, I remember that Al Vanis won Indy, in '74, with a regular Vent. Jack Matyas also began with a reg Vent, then changed over to the GTO. So, why did Brad change from a GTO ? Anybody have pics of it in the new form ?

In looking thru the older race Q-lists, I've seen lots of '74 GTO's. But, after Bill Rink, as he has posted, caused such a big hp hit, the number of '74 GTO entrants has dropped, drastically. On my list of recently active '74 GTO Stockers, I only have 2 cars. Besides the Koivisto car, I have a pic of a red one, driven by Greg Krause. I've probably already posted it here. But this thread is now so long, I'm not gonna look it up. I'll just post another pic here. Some will remember it as the one with John Force riding shotgun. At the time, it didn't appear to be a serious competitive car, barely running under it's index. Bill Rink was running quicker, more than 20 years ago. At the current NHRA hp factor, a '74 GTO/Ventura is definitely NOT the most competitive Pontiac V8 powered Stocker combo. But, thru the years, until the big hits, there were quite a few '74 Pontiac X-body Stockers which did very well & held lots of class records. I suppose there are certan combos of most brands which have been factored completely out of competition.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=328825

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

Other than these 2, does anybody else know of another recently active '74 GTO or Ventura Stocker ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...8&MAKE=Pontiac

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com..._ACT=usrSearch

Edit: I now have a pic of Brad Koivisto's X-body, with a plain Ventura hood on it. Problem is, it still has the GTO grill lights & a GTO decal. I suppose that just points out how much less strict today's NHRA tech is. Wesley would not have let this go, back in the '70's.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Have a friend looking for complete short block with rotating assembly for 68 GTO F/SA
call Scott @ 603-795-4342 or email: grace@verackas.com.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Well, that's up in div 1 territory.

(1) Adam Strang lives in Vermont, & has been running '68 Pontiac Stockers for a long time. Has probably accumulated lots of spare parts. Might have something or know where you can find it.

https://www.facebook.com/adam.strang.3

(2) Todd Hoven ran a '68 Bird for several years, & a '72 GTO before that. I think his brother drives the Bird now. So, Todd may be able to help you.

https://www.facebook.com/todd.hoven.3

(3) Dave Ribeiro has been racing Pontiacs a long time. He may can help.

(4) Then there's Richie Hoffman on Long Island. Long time Pontiac bracket racer & engine builder, who knows lots of Pontiac racers.

https://www.facebook.com/richie.hoffman.581

(5) Then there are the Super Stock guys, like Vic Santos. Bill Kennedy has his old car now. Phil Monteith & 3 generations of the Biondo family have raced Pontiacs, Stock & SS. Most long time Pontiac racers have a large stash of Pontiac parts & know who can build the engines.

(6) Even Billy Nees has fooled around with a few Pontiacs. It's mostly been the 301's in recent years. But I think he helped Don Himes with his cars that ran 400's. If not, he knows just about everybody that has raced in div 1 in recent history. So, he may be able to put you in contact with just the right person.

So, if it was me, I'd begin by contacting some of these guys. Most are members here.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

After giving it some more thought, I realize that some guys are able to, and don't mind, traveling for the racing parts they want, or having them shipped.

So, if this is the case here, then I'd consider contacting Tim Gillespie. He has raced a '68 GTO & '68 Bird for many years. Probably has lots of parts & contacts.

Chris Stephenson has done a LOT of racing over the last few years, with his '68 Bird. Guessing he has made quite a few Pontiac contacts, especially in the div 3 area.

https://www.facebook.com/chris.stephenson.338

Then I suppose there are not many guys who have bought, sold, & raced more Pontiacs than Bob Michael. And he probably knows most all the other Pontiac racers. I think he is also a member here.

https://www.facebook.com/bob.michael.52

There are several Pontiac racers on Bob Michael's FB friends list. One is Don Turk. He is another long time Pontiac racer. So, he may can be of help.

https://www.facebook.com/don.turk.5?...on=friends_tab

Brent Flynn changed his '68 bracket Bird over to Stock, a few years back. He did a build thread on it here. Has probably made lots of good Pontiac contacts who may can help.

https://www.facebook.com/brent.flynn...on=friends_tab

Pontiac does not have a huge racing community. So, if you put out the word of a Pontiac racer in need of parts, it should produce some help.

But, most of these guys will probably not see this. So, there will have to be some personal contact, in order to communicate the need.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

I asked, but don't remember getting a response.

When I looked up pics of Larry Maxwell cars, on Auto Imagery, the 1st two are of a '74 GTO, which I didn't know he raced. He was R/U at the World Finals in '81 & '82, and the Golden Gate Nats in '83.

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1981

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1982

http://www.nhra.net/50th/results.asp?mYear=1983

Anybody have a good pic of this black '74 GTO I can download ?

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...L3_Jqc-&GI_ID=

Also, I assume Barbara is, or was, Larry's wife. She is listed as the driver of Larry's car, occasionally. On at least 1 Q-list I noticed that BOTH Larry & Barbara were listed as drivers of Firebird Stockers. Here's an example, where he's listed in a '72 Bird & she is listed in a '73 Bird.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=41736

I've found pics of a Blue Bird, with his 7700 number on it. Anybody know anything about the 2nd Bird ?
Auto Imagery shows a blue Bird with her 7701 number on it. But it looks like the same car. At some point, were they running 2 cars which looked that much alike ?

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...AABlyc6&GI_ID=

I assume that car listed as a '72, with Larry driving, was a mistake. I figure he was actually driving his '72 455HO powered Lemans.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

May have already posted this.

But, it's just so cool, I've gotta post it now ! :cool:

Its a '62 Cat vs a '69 GTO @ the '69 Indy Nats. :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Here's a Jack Cassidy '71 GTO.

Who has more info and/or pics about the car and/or driver.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Today at Indy, the #2 & #4 Stockers were female driven 1st gen Firebirds, with old fashion Pontiac power ! :)

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Well ya'll, I need to apologize, again.

Just spent an hour or more cruising back thru this thread. I was going up thru the Firebird years, and pretty much stopped, while talking mostly about the '71-'73 models.

Occasionally mentioned some '74 models. But, never got into a lot of detail about any of 'em. Just got sidetracked, I suppose.

I must talk about one in particular. I mentioned that it was a record holder, & even posted 3 record certificates for it, in J/SA, K/SA, & L/SA, along with a few pics. But, I need to post some race results showing the awesome performance this car had, at the time.

The car, of course, is the Mulry & Aceves '74 Bird. Here are a few of it's #1 qualifying efforts. There were probably many others I don't know about. But, these will show what I mean.

#1 @ - 1.599

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

#1 @ - 1.579

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=15141

#1 @ - 1.502

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=62948

#1 @ - 1.437

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=22233

#1 @ - 1.431

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=25692

#1 @ - 1.413

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=19620

#1 @ - 1.354

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=10411

#1 @ - 1.106

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2733

Indy K/SA winner.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2310

#4 @ Indy with a - 1.274.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2312

Well, I think ya'll get the pic. This car was awesome !

As a side note, since this is a Pontiac Stocker thread, I think I count at least a dozen Pontiac V8 powered Stockers that made that 128 car '04 Indy field !

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Another nice '74 was the one Lindy Lindholm raced. It's the one that was stolen. :(

It qualified well at lots of races.

Let's start with a #1 @ the 2017 Winter Nats. Was the only car to qualify a sec under. Hey, I understand sandbaggin. But, it looks good to be #1 on the list. And lots of guys here are quick to congratulate some racers for being #1.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2017#indextop

At the '15 Pomona Finals, he was 1.014 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

#5 @ the '16 Winter Nats - 1.020 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Won class at this & many other races.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

#4 & I/SA class winner @ the '16 Vegas Denso Nats.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop

Highest qualified Pontiac & class winner @ Toyota Nats.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

It was still running more than .900 under, last Sept. I suppose that if it hadn't been stolen, Lindy would still be racing it.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Tho not as quick against their index, there are still at least 3 active '74 Bird Stockers, that I know of. And I may as well include Gary Riley's '74 wagon.

I think I've probably already mentioned all these cars. But, I'll mention them again here, to point out that the '74 4X head 400 is & has long been a very competitive engine.

I'm reminded of the recent final round at the Mile-High Nats. It pitted Dwaine Davis in his '74 Formula, against Gary Riley in his '74 Lemans wagon. Gary won.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

Then there is the Burton's "Grimace" '74 Formy, which recently made it's debut.

And, there is the '74 T/A which is sponsored by John Clegg's Mission Garage, & is said to have been built by Forest Pierdolla. I think this T/A still runs an SD455 engine. Not sure.

I suppose a '74 Bird could run a 400, a D-port 455, or if you don't mind running the high dollar SD heads, you could run the SD455.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...1&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...2&MAKE=Pontiac

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

That D-port 455 looks good, at the current 306hp factor. That engine has proven very competitive in several '73 Birds. No reason it wouldn't do just as well in a '74 model. Don't really know if the D-port 455 would be more competitive at 306hp, than the 400 @ 275hp. :confused:

I do know that Michael Brand switched from the D-port 455 to the SD455, in his '73 Bird. It doesn't seem to be running as far under it's index, now. So, unless there is quite a bit of yet-to-be-found power in that SD engine, it appears that the D-port engine MAY be more competitive, at the current hp factors. Maybe we'll get to see if Michael can get a lower ET from his SD combo this year. Because of the rarity & price of those SD heads, I'd say there is not much experimenting that could be done.

But, with the 4X D-port heads, a guy should be able to search for more power, from the heads. Because of the big chambers, many of those 455 4X heads have been junked. Those that remain are not in high demand. So, there should be some available for a decent price.

Because of the legality of adding & removing weight, in order to change classes, I don't always know which engine all the Pontiacs are running.

Looked up some Q-list numbers for Dwaine Davis & the Mission Garage '74 Bird. The times are usually a half sec under, or better. Both cars were at this div 4 race. Dwaine was .827 under, & Hunter was .755 under. Won't win all the heads-up races, but can win all other rounds.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop

Jeremy Romero ran .929 under in "Grimace". I assume that might win a few heads-up runs.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

So, I'll have to say that a '74 Pontiac is a decent model Stocker to run.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

For '75 model Pontiac Stockers, I can only think of 1 that is still active.

Up in the Northwest, Ryan Warter has a '75 Formy. Has been racing it for quite a while. Hasn't been long since he won the nat event up there, his 1st. It was an All-Pontiac final against Randi Lyn.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

He was .940 under at this div 6 race.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

May '16 - div 6 Nat Open doubleheader - Won 1st race - made semi-final in 2nd race !

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=62151

6/5/16 - div 6-3 - #1 - 1.066 under

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop

8/7/16 - NW Nats - Stock R/U, in another All-Pontiac nat event final !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop

9/17/16 - Stock Challenge - Winner, in another All-Pontiac final, against Brad Burton, again !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

8/6/17 - NW Nats - 3rd place - But hey, he had a pretty good 3-year run, at the NW Nats !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

5/4/19 - div 6-1 - #2 - 1.129 under

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

For '76 model Pontiacs, I can only think of 1 Stocker. It was raced by Mike Morgan for several years. Mike won his class at the 2014 US Nats. I'll look up that win & some other results for the car.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

He was #97 @ .943 under that year.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

Looks like Mike had it tuned up for Indy, back in July. He went .924 under at this div 3 race.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

Was R/U in K/SA @ the '13 US Nats.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop

Also made the Indy field in '12, @ .945 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

@ Indy '11, he won the K/SA class & qualified 1.032 under. I've read that he ran Parsons & Myers power.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2011#indextop

Well, ya'll get the picture. The car was quick enuff to be competitive.

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...DIl7g--&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...DIl7g--&GI_ID=

I think Kevin Love bought the car from Mike, right after Indy, '14. He was 1.105 under at the '14 Fall Classic NO.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=293473

In '15, he was #1 @ this div 6 race, with a .962 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

At the Lucas Oil Nats, he won K/SA & was .903 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

@ the Fall Classic NO, he was 1.113 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=306741

Still running strong last year at this div 5 race. #3 @ 1.031 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=356180

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

When it comes to '77 Pontiacs, there are lots of body choices.

Thru the years, there have been LOTS of '77-'78 Bird Stockers that have been very competitive.

BUT, because of the big hp factor on the '77 400, when running a Bird body, non-Bird bodies are obviously much better choices. There have been quite a few '77 Lemans Stockers. I think Dave Ribeiro still runs one that Bob Michael built. And Wayne Larsen runs one that has been passed around.

The '77 GP that Don Himes ran is still active. As far as I know, Bob Michael has the only '77 Catalina that has been built. As I've probably mentioned, I'd like to run a Can Am clone. Just think one of those would look cool, as a Stocker. As far as I know it would be another one-of-a-kind.

I assume that for those who wanna run a '77 Bird, the 350 engine might be a little more competitive. But, even the 350 gets a 4 hp handicap, if you run it in a Bird Stocker. Mike Morgan has certainly done well with it in SS, @ 246hp.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...3&MAKE=Pontiac

In non-Bird bodies, the base 400 is competitive, at it's current 260hp factor. How long will it remain at 260hp ? I suppose that depends on whether anybody runs quick enuff with it to make noise.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...4&MAKE=Pontiac

My guess is that if you wanna run a 400 powered Bird, it would be better to run it as a '78 model, using what Mark Yac calls the "big cam" engine. It's only 7hp more, 290hp vs 283hp.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...7&MAKE=Pontiac

From lookin back thru the race records, I've seen that several guys have switched between claiming a '77 & a '78 Bird. I assume this is so that they could run the most competitive combo, when considering the NHRA hp factor for each engine, at the time.

Have probably asked this, but don't remember the answer. The '77-'78 Pontiacs can run the larger Q-jet, which street guys call an 800cfm. The '74 model (except for the SD455 engine) Pontiacs must run the smaller 750cfm Q-jet. There has obviously been LOTS of Q-jet testing, thru the years. So, aprox how much ET gain would the larger Q-jet make, on similar 400 Pontiac Stocker engines.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...1&MAKE=Pontiac

There have been so many competitive '77-'78 Bird Stockers, thru the years, it's hard to pick just 1 or 2, or even just a few. But, just from the research I've done, Dave Ribeiro's Bird comes to mind. It held a nat record for a couple of years. Out on the West coast, Bill Edgeworth's Bird was also a record holder. I can remember when Ryan Warter raced it & was trying to help sell it. Anybody know if it is being raced nowadays ?

So many more come to mind. You can go to DRC & look at the Stock Q-lists from the US Nats, & find lots of quick '77-'78 Birds. Seems I remember seeing a Don Holmes Bird high on the Stock Q-list. Won't try to name 'em all.

At the 2000 US Nats, Don Holmes was #2 @ 1.269 under, & won K/SA, in a '78 Bird. Dave Edwards was #5 & won L/SA, in a '78 T/A. While we're there, Danny Ashley won N/SA in a '74 GA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

The Indy Q-lists & class winner lists, are always very interesting to me. I like the '03 Indy lists.

Dave Edwards had the highest qualified Pontiac. He was #17 @ 1.133 under. Also won his class. There were some other notable Pontiacs on those lists. Don Himes won his class, in his '77 GP. Scott Burton won his class, as did Mike McGinley. The Biondo Bird was on the Q-list, as was Kyle Riley & Bill Rink.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

@ Indy '08, apparently Ryan Warter drove Bill Edgeworth's '77 to the #10 position @ 1.196 under, and won his K/SA class. That was also the year Todd Hoven was #7 & won G/SA, with a '72 GTO.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2008#indextop

You can add 9 pics to a post. I may see if I can find pics of 9 good '77-'78 Bird Stockers, to post. Some of these are the same car, with different owners. Most of these cars have been mentioned & pictured in this thread. But, here they are, again. Some guys may see this who would never look thru the entire thread.

Anyone with pics of '77-'78 Bird Stockers I haven't mentioned, please post info & pics of those Birds. Also, anyone who'd be willing to give us the history of any or all these cars are welcomed, & even encouraged to do so.

Between all these Birds there have been many race wins, class wins, & records set. They are part of Pontiac Stocker history. As a real Pontiac freek, I am very proud to post info & pics of these cars ! :)

PS: As ya'll can see, white seems to be the preferred color for '77-'78 Bird Stockers.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Sometimes I am amazed at Pontiac drag racing info I can find, just by doing a Google search. I have often said to my wife: "Google knows everything." .

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hppp...rts-nationals/

That article called my attention to the nat event at Englishtown, in 1998. I may have already posted about it. BUT, in light of talking about competitive '77-'78 Pontiac Stockers, there may not be a better single race which is more connected.

Carol Yacavone was #8, followed by Dave Ribeiro @ #9, Don Himes @ #22, Dean Ribeiro @ #27, John Rodnite @ #36, & Bill Groton @ #92. Not familiar with those last 2 names.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

AND, check out the class winners. L/SA, M/SA, N/SA, O/SA, P/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

Checked out the '98 Indy class winners. Bob Michael was #12 @ 1.034 under, & won M/SA, in a '78 T/A. Next Pontiac on the list was the Don Holmes '78 Bird. There were also several other Pontiacs that made the 128 car field.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

Don't have lots of pics of the non-Bird '77's. I do have pics of the '77 Lemans that Bob Michael had, which Dave Ribeiro has now. Also have 3 pics of the '77 Lemans that Kyle Riley had, then, at some point Jack Larsen had, which Wayne Larsen now races. IIRC, the 1st car was wrecked & Kyle used another body, to put another Stocker together. Those Kyle Riley cars show up on lots of DRC race results.

Can't resist mentioning the '04 Indy Stock Q-list again. There were about a dozen Pontiac V8 cars that made the 128 car field. 5 of those were '77-'78 models. Kyle Riley's '77 Lemans was one of 'em.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=2312

@ '05 Indy, Kyle won the N/SA class & Don Himes won P/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

I think Bob Michael won class @ Indy with his Lemans. There have been several '77 non-Bird Pontiacs make the field at Indy. Bob's '77 Catalina is one of 'em. When I find 'em, I'll post some of those Indy results, here.

5/5/18 - div 3-1 - #1 - 1.064 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop

8/30/19 - US Nats - #107 - .968 under - R/U in L/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

Bob Michael was R/U in class @ the '12 US Nats, & won class in '13, over fellow Pontiac racer Don Turk. Pontiac also picked up class wins that year in D/SA, F/SA, & G/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2013#indextop

Gonna post the pics I have now, then come back & swap out some, if I come across more. All who read this are welcome to post any good pics you have of non-Bird '77 Pontiac Stockers.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Breaker !!!

I must make an apology to a long time Pontiac racer, who has raced the same Pontiac for a long time. I don't know when he started racing it. Maybe somebody can tell us.

And, I apologize to the Pontiac fans who knew about this car/racer, & wondered why I have not said more about it.

I've seen his name on Q-lists, in recent years. But, I suppose that because the times he ran were not very impressive, I just never thought to look for the car in the older records, until today. I am very thankful for all the race records that are available on DRC !

The car is a '74 Grand Am. The owner/driver name is Don Elgin. He raced in most of the div 6 races, & the nat event held up there every year.

They show up on DRC, in 1998. The class was N/SA. The index was 13.30, back then. He ran 12.20's at lots of races. Obviously, all those 12.20's times showed up as being more than a sec under.

I don't have a clue what the best ever ET was. But, so far, I did find this 12.132, which was 1.168 under, & good enuff for #2 position on that list.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

7/30/99 - Northwest Nats - #2 - 1.088 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop

7/28/00 - NW Nats - #2 - 1.095 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

7/27/01 - NW Nats - #8 - 1.001 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2001#indextop

When NHRA reduced the N/SA index from 13.30 down to 13.00, Don instantly lost .30, for qualifying. This '15 Q-list is a perfect example. The 12.155 would have been more than a sec under, which would have qualified near the top of most lists. But, with the 13.30 index, his time was only .845 under.

7/18/15 - div 6-4 - #18 - 12.155 - index 13.00 - .845 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

It appears that he just sorta backed off, at most races & ran 12.40's - 12.60's. I suppose there are not too many N/SA entries in most of the races he runs, therefore heads-up performance is not a big issue. At last years NW Nats, he actually qualified slightly above Brad Burton. Both cars were the only cars in their class.

8/2/19 - NW Nats - #25 - 12.401 - .599 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

The 1st time I ever saw Don on a Q-list was probably in around 2014 or maybe even 2015. So, his index was already 13.00. That's why his times did not impress me that much. Unless I missed something, I think I saw his name on the NW Nats Q-list every year except for one, from 1998 thru 2019. That's a pretty good attendance record. Anybody know when he 1st began racing the GA ?

Many here are by now very familiar with Don's GA. It is quite unique, & has LOTS of racing decals on it. Hey, I use to jokingly say that "Every decal adds at least 1 horsepower". Nowadays, some racers seem to want their race car to look more like a street or show car, & refuse to put any decals on 'em. As I've probably said here, I like for a race car to look like one. If I wanna see a show car, I can go to a local car show. Opinions differ.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

For some of you guys who know the history of recently raced '77-'78 Firebirds, I have a question.

Here is a Q-list with 5 Birds listed here as '78 models. The 1st one is listed as Don Holmes. So, I assume Rob Holmes still has that Bird.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

What about the other 4 ? Can anybody here give the history of any or all these Birds ? I realize that some or maybe even all these cars have been mentioned here before. But, I like to know who built the cars & all who have raced 'em.

They are:

(1) #4 Dave Edwards

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com..._ACT=usrSearch

(2) #64 Mike Morgan

(3) #65 Dave Batta

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com..._ACT=usrSearch

(4) #72 Michael Moyer

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com..._ACT=usrSearch

Mike Morgan is listed with a '76 Bird, the following year. So, I suppose he could have just changed out the necessary body parts. But, I have no idea whether he sold his '78 or changed it over to a '76.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

Just an observation: I noticed that the Don Holmes & Dave Edwards Birds were at or very near the top of quite a few Q-lists, during that time period.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

1, Bob Michael car, as was / is the Don /Rob Holmes car. Two different cars.

2, Not sure, but I believe Mike converted it from a 77-78

3, My old car. I built it from a 78 T-A. donated sponsor body, as was told in the mag. articles. I changed it to a Formula.
I sold it to Dean Ribiero , who sold it to Dave Batta, who sold it to ??? ( I'll let him come forward, if he wants to)

4, not sure

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Thanks for that info Mark !

"1, Bob Michael car, as was / is the Don /Rob Holmes car. Two different cars...

OK, that means that Bob Michael owned both cars, then sold one to Don Holmes, then sold one to Dave Edwards.

So, does anybody here know what became of the Dave Edwards Bird ?

I assume that Dave Edwards Bird is the one that Bob Michael won M/SA with, @ the 1998 US Nats ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

And, from what Mark said, I assume that same car is the one that Dave Edwards won L/SA with, at the 2000 US Nats ?

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

On that same Stock class winner's list is Don Holmes with the K/SA win, & Danny Ashley, with the N/SA win. :)

These were some strong running Pontiac Stockers, for their time period. I was busy with life, back then, & not keeping up with racing. But I'm enjoying learning about these cars, now ! :)

PS: While lookin back at some of my race records, I found that Michael Moyer is still racing a '78 Bird. It was on the list from the recent div 6 race. So, is it the same car that was on that list I linked ?

#17 @ .821 under

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Adding to my confusion, from my last post, I'll just go ahead & add the names of these guys who I know drove '77-'78 Birds.

So, combining the 5 Birds from my last post, together with the Birds these guys drove, how many different Birds were there ?

Bill Edgeworth
Tommy Pettigrew
Tibor Kadar
Paul Dilcher
Dave Ribeiro
The Biondo Racing '77-'78 Bird

Hey, maybe some of you guys know of others who ran '77-'78 Stocker Birds, besides those I've mentioned ? Post that info & we'll add 'em to the mix.

I've learned that the Paul Dilcher Bird now belongs to Chad Smith. Hope that's correct.

Anybody know of decent '77-'78 Stocker Birds that are now sitting idle, not being raced ?

I suppose I need to start some written files on each Bird, with all it's owners/drivers & history. Just too much to keep up with from memory(at least from my memory).

It would help a LOT, if the search function on this site worked real good. For me, it's one of the worst I've run across. Most of the results I get have absolutely nothing to do with the subject of the search. :(

While I'm on site problems, recently, I get automatically logged out after about an hour. :( I click on the "Remember Me ?" block, which I thought was/is supposed to keep me logged in, til I log out. In the past, if I forgot to log out, I'd still be logged in the next time I came to the site. But, as mentioned, can't stay logged in very long now. Anybody else having this problem ?

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

OK, here's another attempt to get some of these Pontiacs & drivers all straight, at least in my mind. I realize that for most any car/driver I mention, there will be somebody here who knows the driver & the history of the car.

Therefore, as always, if I get some of the facts wrong, somebody who knows the correct facts, please post the correct info. You won't hurt my feelings, cause I realize that I know very little about the history of most of the cars & drivers mentioned in this thread. :o

This post is about the '74 Grand Am that Danny Ashley raced, back in the late '90's/early 2000's.

After searching thru some DRC files, the earliest I spotted it was in June of '99, @ the Sears Craftsman Nats. He won the N/SA class there.

6/24/99 - Sears Nats - #22 - .857 under - N/SA Winner

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop

10/1/99 - Topeka Advance Nats - #23 - .952 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop

8/31/00 - US Nats - #15 - 1.107 under - N/SA winner.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

Then I find a '74 GA with Mike McGinley as the driver. Same car ? :confused:

Mike qualified in the upper portion of a lot of Q-lists, with the car.

5/17/03 - div 3-2 - #27 - .998 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

8/28/03 - US Nats - #97 - .943 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

9/20/03 - div 3-6 - #28 - 1.021 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

9/3/04 - US Nats - #40 - 1.128 under

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...BpYKQY-&GI_ID=

Then by 2012, Mike is driving something else & Don Turk is listed driving a '74 GA. Same car ?

4/28/12 - div 3-1 - #48 - .734 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

9/25/15 - Midwest Nats - #8 - .943 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2015#indextop

9/3/16 - US Nats - N/SA Class Winner.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2016#indextop

Then Don put it up for sale, & more recently it has been driven by Logan Galbraith. So, I assume this is the same car, with at least 4 different drivers. Is this correct ?

5/7/19 - div 3 - Won Stock !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

8/30/19 - US Nats - #75 - 1.037 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com..._ACT=usrSearch

Not complete. Will continue.

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

oldskool thank you for the above post.

Yes Logan is the 4th owner of this awesome 1974 Grand Am. Not sure what the N/SA index has been over the years but @ 13.00 since we have owned the car I believe the 2019 US Nationals 1.03 under is its first pass in the 11's which we are really proud of. Tons of Midwest Pontiac guys have helped us with the car... Don, Todd, and many others including some I'm not allowed to mention :)

In addition to what you've already listed Logan also won a Wally in it at last years National Open @ Ohio Valley as well as a Class Elim win at this years Belle Rose Divisional where it had a string of passes in the mid 11.90's (wow that was some good air).

You probably wont see it out much for a bit because Logan enlisted in the USMC and is currently in week 6 of Boot Camp in San Diego. I appreciate it being included in the discussion of best pontiac stockers... dont know about "best" but it's a good one for sure! Thanks again. I'll print your post and mail it to Logan today.

Troy Galbraith

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Well, Logan certainly has my sympathy, during his time in boot camp ! :)

I went thru 8 weeks of basic & 8 weeks of Army infantry AIT, at Fort Polk, Louisiana, back in 1970.

To say the very least, it was an experience I'll never forget. It didn't make me wanna kill enemy soldiers. It made me wanna kill some drill sergeants. :mad:

When I 1st got there, it was in the middle of the Summer. Hey ya'll, it's HOT in Louisiana, in the middle of the Summer. While in the reception station area, they put us in old barracks that were built during WWII. No AC.

The buildings had 2 floors. I was put on the top floor. There was a big fan at one end. But it didn't work. Don't know exactly what the temp was on that top floor. But it was WELL over 100°, in the afternoon. Probably didn't drop below 90° 'til after midnight. I remember sweating 'til I soaked my sheets & mattress. Then I'd take 'em all down to the shower, & take a shower WITH the sheets & mattress. The wet bedding provided some relief from the heat, for a few minutes, usually enuff so I could go to sleep.

While there, we all got the same nice haircut. Hey, for you older guys, do ya'll remember guy's hairstyles, in 1970 ? Many of those guys had shoulder length hair, standing outside the barbershop. But, when they came out, everybody had the same length hair - VERY short. And, to rub it in, we'd be marched down to the barbershop EVERY week, to get another haircut. And we had to pay for 'em, out of our meager pay.

After our time in the reception station, we were sent to our basic training company. That's when the fun really began. :( I can truly say that was the most miserable experience of my life. Some guys seem to love the military life, & even make a career out of it. I hated almost every minute of my military experience.

I know this probably ain't the place for my rant. But, it was such a traumatic experience for me that even after all these years, any reminder of that experience brings up lots of bad memories of a very unpleasant experience. I could go on & on about some of that stuff, but I'll stop.

THANKS to all who have served, are serving, & especially to those who have seen combat duty ! As the saying goes, "Freedom ain't free.". Somebody has to pay for it, so that the rest of us can enjoy it. Throughout our history, there have always been some willing to pay the price. Sadly, some have had to pay more than others. :(

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r=100#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Mr. Old School, Bob Michael here; sorry I haven't chimed in sooner. I really appreciate all the research you've done!

The Dave Edwards car was sold to Tony Goodman, then to David Horne if that helps.
We're in process of building a 1962 Super Duty motor for my car
A friend out west has already has his '62 going down the track in D/SA
Thanks again, I'll try to answer your questions sooner

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

I still have the firebird that Mark Yacavone is referring to.Raced it for about 10 years and then it sat idle for a number of years although in the past couple years the car has been freshened and updated thanks to a LOT of help from Dave Edwards.

In fact we hope to get the car out this fall if schedules work out.

Dave Batta

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

Hey guys, THANKS a lot for posting your 1st hand info !

Everybody can tell that I'm no expert, have very little Stocker experience, & am only posting the info I find online or get directly from racers, thru PM's and/or Email.

I love to hear that several of the cars will make a return to the track ! Looking forward to posting that info, when it happens.

Would love it if you guys would post pics of the whole process, or at least a few, to give us a better idea of the details of the rebuild, refresh, repaint, or whatever is being done to the cars.

Bob Michael, your name is connected to so many Pontiac Stock & Super Stock cars, I am wondering if you have kept a list, or if you know exactly how many Pontiac powered Stock/SS cars you have either built, bought, sold, and/or had a major hand in building/racing. :confused: Thanks for all you've done for Pontiac class racing !

I've noticed that you have built a '77 Lemans & a '77 Catalina. I'd love it if you'd either build, or encourage some of your Pontiac racer friends to build a '77 Cam Am Stocker. It's my favorite of all the '73-'77 A-body Pontiacs. I think a Cam Am Stocker would look so cool ! :cool:

That's the 1st I've heard about your 421SD. Hope both SD projects work out great. They'll definitely be a "Blast From the Past". :)

Anybody here know when the last competitive 421SD Stocker was actively racing ? :confused:

I'm thinking of how cool it will be if a large number of the old, new, & refreshed Pontiac Stockers can get together at one race, so they'll all show up on a Q-list. I love it when I run across an old list that includes maybe 10 or more Pontiac powered Stockers.

I feel sorta sad when I see a list which contains names that were once associated with a Pontiac powered Stocker, but they now drive another brand, and sometimes even a late model. I know that opinions differ. But, to me, the late model 8 & 9 sec FS cars don't even seem to fit in the same class as a 10-12 sec Pontiac Stocker, which has Q-jet on it.

I understand that some guys just wanna go faster. But, back in the old days, those who wanted to go faster just moved up to a faster class, such as Super Stock. Nowadays, you can run a Stocker that will go quicker than any of the SS cars would go, not that many years ago. That's all I'll say about that. :)

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

OK, it's time to dig into some race results from some of the '77-'78 Birds that have been mentioned.

I've been told that most of the credit for the big hp hits on the '77-'78 Bird 400 engines can probably go to the Don Holmes Bird. So, let's take a closer look at some of the performances that may have caused at least some of those hits.

There are probably LOTS of DRC results that deserve mention. So, I'll divide this into 2 posts. The 1st will be for those races where Don was the driver. The next post will be where Rob was the driver.

9/4/98 - US Nats - #29 - .924 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1998#indextop

9/3/99 - US Nats - #4 - 1.264 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r1999#indextop

8/31/00 - US Nats - #2 - 1.269 under - Won K/SA class.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2000#indextop

4/27/02 - div 3-1 - #2 - 1.481 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

5/18/02 - div 3-2 - #2 - 1.320 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

6/23/02 - div 3-3 - #1 - 1.211 under - Won the Race !

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

8/3/02 - div 3-4 - #3 - 1.288 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

8/24/02 - div 3-5 - #1 - 1.286 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

9/21/02 - div 3-6 - #2 - 1.288 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2002#indextop

4/26/03 - div 3-1 - #1 - 1.411 under. Kyle Riley won the race, with his '77 Lemans.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

5/17/03 - div 3-2 - #1 - 1.249 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

6/22/03 - div 3-3 - #2 - 1.255 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

8/2/03 - div 3-4 - #2 - 1.274 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

8/23/03 - div 3-5 - #1 - 1.320 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

9/20/03 - div 3-6 - #1 - 1.423 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2003#indextop

4/17/04 - div 3-1 - #3 - 1.317 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

7/17/04 - div 3-3 - #1 - 1.253 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

8/7/04 - div 3-4 - #13 - 1.145 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

8/28/04 - div 3-5 - #1 - 1.265 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

9/3/04 - US Nats - #13 - 1.195 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

9/25/04 - div 3-6 - #5 - 1.168 under. Paul Dilcher won this race.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2004#indextop

4/16/05 - div 3-1 - #1 - 1.366 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

7/16/05 - div 3-3 - #3 - 1.207 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

8/6/05 - div 3-4 - #2 - 1.152 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

8/27/05 - div 3-5 - #1 - 1.280 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

9/2/05 - US Nats - #4 - 1.236 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2005#indextop

4/22/06 - div 3-1 - #5 - 1.233 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

7/1/06 - div 3-2 - #2 - 1.118 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

7/15/06 - div 3-3 - #2 - 1.233 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

8/26/06 - div 3-5 - #1 - 1.227 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

9/1/06 - US Nats - #10 - 1.196 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2006#indextop

As most here know, back in the old days, it was common for drag cars to have a name, which was usually displayed on the doors. The name I've seen on this car is "Kemo Sabe", beginning with pics on Auto Imagery dated from 2002 & 2004.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ke-mo_sah-bee

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...VQLJ94-&GI_ID=

https://autoimagery.photoshelter.com...VztKBA-&GI_ID=

Re: Best Pontiac Powered Stockers
 

This post will be for the Holmes Bird, after Robert was the driver listed. I've also seen his name listed as Robbie & Rob. Rob is shorter, so I'll use that.

He shows up on the Indy list in 2009.

9/4/09 - US Nats - #26 - 1.185 under - R/U in I/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCStory.asp?ID=190774

9/26/09 - Jegs Northern Sports Nats - #11 - 1.118 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2009#indextop

4/28/12 - div 3-1 - #9 - 1.016 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2012#indextop

9/19/14 - Jegs Northern Sports Nats - #20 - .904 under & class winner.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2014#indextop

5/26/18 - Jegs Sports Nats - #14 - .966 under & won J/SA.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...UMMIT#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2018#indextop

7/7/19 - div 3-3 - #3 - .941 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

8/25/19 - div 3-5 - #2 - .947 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

10/13/19 - Fall Classic - #15 - 1.074 under.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2019#indextop

7/19/20 - Jegs Sports Nats - #26 - .938 under & J/SA winner.

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...r2020#indextop

https://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCS...er=30#indextop

Even after all the hp hits, it's still competitive.

Some earlier pics show that Rob didn't have the Kemo Sabe name on the side. But, pics from this season show that the name is on the car again.