Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Unless it is a convertible like mine in which case you have no choice. ;)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK I can explain it where I understand it, don't know if anybody else can or not. But I'll give it a shot. But it will take a while to explain. Some of you guys may wanna skip this post. It will probably be long and boring.

(1) I started out racing a Stocker in '73. You can see some of the trophies I won my 1st two seasons, in my avatar pic.

(2) I built a serious(to me) Stocker, '68 Bird E/SA, in '75 and TJ won the 1st six races at our 2 local tracks, plus a few others during the season. I also upgraded my GTO that year and got it into the 12's for the 1st time.

(3) Then all the local tracks dropped class racing in favor of brackets. So we learned how to win at bracket racing. But I didn't like Stocker racing any less. It just wasn't available to us, without long trips. Now they are running it only 2 hours away, but only once a year.

(4) We ran a LOT of bracket races thru '79, then off and on thru 88. Then I stayed away from racing for about 20 years, to help run my dad's family business. And I'd always spent all our money on racing and made TJ live in a single wide trailer house. So, after the family business folded up, TJ got to move into her new house, and I got a job driving an 18 wheeler. Now, I'm retired and my little gov check goes to pay the house note, utilities and very little else. :( That's why this is a very low budget build.

(5) As I've already mentioned on this site, I got me a little min wage job just for racing $. It worked great. I bought a bracket car and then a former class car, along with a diesel crew cab and 2-car gooseneck. I was ready to race a full schedule at our local track in 2010, but the track never opened that year. If I'd just been patient, and saved my $, I could have been racing ever since then. But I got discouraged and figured the track would never reopen, like most of the other tracks we use to race. So, I got involved with dirt racing at our local track. Well, you can blow a lot of $ quick, dirt racin, and have nothing left to show for it. That's what I did. :(

(6) But as it turned out, some new guys took over the drag strip and started making improvements. They have really made it a nice bracket track now. I kept one of my bracket cars, but my little job fizzled out, and I haven't had the $ to race. I also have an old '68 bracket bird. I'm swapping some of my left over dirt cars and parts to a guy, for putting the bird back together for me.

As the finances are right now, I can only make a very few races. But I have several friends who'll haul 'em to the races for me. One of them would probably be glad to haul a Stocker to the Sept points race. And since I know I probably can't go to a lot of races(til the finances get better) I don't have a problem with only going to one Stocker race this year.

(7) A Stocker can pull double duty. There are probably LOTS of Stocker guys running their Stockers at bracket races. Many of 'em probably pay a lot better anyhow. So my Stocker would run more than one race a year. Hey, I knew a guy that only went to one big race a year with his Modified production Camaro. Don't think he ever got it down to the index. But he seemed to enjoy being in the big show.

(8) I went to a big, local bracket race a few years back and there was a pair of '69 Camaro Stockers there. So, me being the curious type, I went over to check 'em out. I believe they were running G/SA. They were his and hers cars--a husband and wife team. They had their permanent numbers and lots of decals, and both had a Q-jet. I mean if you know what a Stocker looks like, you could tell that these cars were the real deal. I think they both turned mid 11's.

Coming from my background, I thought these cars were really cool. :cool: I didn't know before that race that serious Stockers ran any bracket races. So that is one of the major things that put this idea into my mind. I can have a cool lookin Stocker AND run bracket with it, even if I can't get it under the index right away. I can use the bracket races for test and tune to continually get the car quicker, til it gets down to it's index. That part could be fun too.

Well I could go on and on. But it's midnite here and time to close it.

I'll just summarize it this way: I started with Stockers, I like Stockers, and I'd like to have another Stocker, whether I ever get it under the index or not. Some of you guys may not understand that. But that's as simple as I know how to put it. :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

I simply meant it would be easier/quicker for you to get most of your questions answered.

In my case I am on the verge of retirement...this is my last fling at it I suppose. I have yet to attend any major race with our car...been busy sorting it out so to speak. I do attend nearly all the Combo events at Bowling Green during the course of the year. My goal is to make a couple of races this year with either the Camaro or Mustang...which ever one proves to be the most consistent. My hunch is the Mustang will run further under it's index than the Camaro ever has right from the start...we shall see.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Oldskool, you didn't owe me a reply, but now I have a much better understanding of what you are trying to accomplish, and it makes more sense to me. Please continue your thread, I have actually enjoyed it!
I can understand where you are coming from. I have not ever raced Stock, but grew up helping my Dad racing Gas classes in the 60's and 70's. Over the years, I have owned multiple race cars, from 11 second VW's to 8.90 dragsters and an altered, 9 second NMRA Real Street Mustangs, and even a short stint with a Willie Rells P/S Camaro. I sold my business and retired 7 years ago at 45 with a few health concerns. One Pacemaker later, I feel great, and I want to go racing again, Like you, I don't intend to hit a national event trail, but being where I live, I am an hour from Charlotte, 2 hours from Atlanta, 1 hour from Rockingham, 3 hours from Silver Dollar, an hour from Carolina and also Orangeburg Dragway. I also have a small track 5 miles from the house. (Anybody remember Blaney Dragstrip in SC? I am 3 miles from where it used to be. Now it's a subdivision, but the streets are named after Garlits, Hubert Platt, etc.) I grew up watching guys like Mike Saye, Everett Keesley, Bill Howell, Boobie Hornaday, and even Johnny Dowey race NHRA, so I always wanted too myself. With a stocker, I can run Stock and hit a lot of Divisional (and eventually National) events without having to travel far, and bracket race in the interim. I am in the middle of a Mustang M/N Stock build. So again, please continue your thread, and good luck with whatever you decide to build.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

I sold a couple of 283 stockers to the McIntosh clan form around the Calhoun-Ruston area and the Caldwell family raced for years out of Ruston. There are several others from Monroe, also. You best get accustomed to detail!

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

I remember the name McIntosh, but right now can't quite remember the car they ran back then. I do know of the Cardwell family in Ruston. In fact I bought a set of used 9" slicks from them for one of my Stockers. Also, they built the '69 Tempest Stocker which I bought back in '09. I was surprised to hear that they built a Pontiac, since they had always run Chevy, as far as I knew.

The guy I bought the car from said they were going to try to race it, but could only get it down to within a tenth of the index, so they decided there was not enuff potential there to flog it any further, and sold it to him. Their choice of engines showed that they were not real Pontiac guys. I think they had always run mostly the 350 Chevy. So, they tried a 350HO Pontiac. But what they did not know is that there are lots of Pontiac engines with more potential because of a more favorable hp factor. The engine made 434hp on the dyno, but was not quite enuff for the combo. But hey, it sounded good and would have made a good bracket car.

That was just a little side trip there, for entertainment purposes. :D

Now, as for Wesley, I'm not ready for his level of scrutiny yet. When I get down to working out minor details, I may contact him.

The switchboard in the Tempest had Cardwell Motorsports printed on it. :)

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

OK, I been reading the Stocker rules. One working head and tail light, engine/belt driven alternator, electric water pump and fans, all dash components, controls, etc, in place, at least one batt in stock location.

Ya'll check me. Am I correct so far ?

Didn't see wiring harness mentioned. So--question: can all stock wiring be removed from car and new wires added, only to necessary points ?

Thanks !

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Correct.

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

Thanks !

Next question--Subject: Rear End

The Stock section has only 2 paragraphs about the rear end.----Section 10A , page 6

REAR END
... Distance between backing plates may not
be changed. Any gear ratio that fits third-member case or housing permitted. Limited-slip or ratchet-type rear ends permitted. Reinforcement of spring perch permitted. Spools permitted only with aftermarket axles. Aftermarket axles not required for front-wheel-drive vehicles. Larger brakes may be used. Replacement rear end may be narrowed or widened to obtain original rear-end width. Bracing or beefing up the rear- end housing permitted...

It says that limited slip units may be used--axles and C-clip eliminators not mentioned with these.

Then it says spools are legal--only with aftermarket axles. Does not mention mini spools or C-clip elims.

Question: Is this covered in another section, like maybe general safety regulations or ? I'd heard that mini spools are not legal and all C-clip axles must use C-clip elims. So, what's the rule on this and where in the rule book is it found please ? Thanks !

Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy
 

If you look at the bottom of the section you quoted, it refers you to General Regulations section 2:11 You can go there and read the rest of the rules regarding rearends, Basically states welded spider gears illegal, aftermarket axles and safety retention device required anytime spool is used, regardless of ET. Also lists all classes that require aftermarket axles and retention devices..... basically anything 10.99 or quicker. Otherwise C-Clips are legal.