Re: This will make AHFS work
 

BSA The goal is to reward going fast to win class with payout for class being a couple thousand $. Getting the trophy becomes something many people can strive to do since it is contested over 4 or 5 times as many cars. Your friends recognize your winning class isnt because of dilution of the racers to where no one fits your class so you get the trophy for towing to the event.(not faulting anyone for being the only one in the class, just circumstances today) Numbers could be different. Thanks.

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

Everyone has great ideas on this subject and it has been discussed over and over again on this forum and the other forum. But there will never be a good and satisfactory method for the following reasons:

1) we don't all go to the same machine shop
2) we don't all run the same combination
3) we don't all run the same brand
4) we don't all have equal OEM 'replacement parts' (heads, blocks, etc.)
5) we don't all spend the same amount of money
6) we don't all put the same time and effort into our combo
7) we don't all race at the same races where the conditions could be mind shaft or really bad
8) we don't all run our race cars on kill all the time nor do we want to because of the wear and tear, so it only makes sense to back them down if no heads up are involved
9) we don't all race the same number of races each year, so the data is not consistant
10) there are not the same number of cars that make up each combo, some have 2 or 3 cars (ie. 340) while others have 50 or more (ie. 305's)
11) we don't all own our own machine shops

So with this in mind are we trying to

1) create a socialist class (everyone is the same regardless of time, money and effort)
2) penalize the racers that work hard, spend the time and money to be the best
3) throw out what this class was built on ..... PERFORMANCE

I know there are obvious combos that are under rated and there are some over rated and that is what NHRA is trying to even out with AFHS, but I don't know if there will ever be common ground to resolve all of the HP ratings.


Just my 2 cents ...
__________________
Chuck Beach
3340 STK

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

Thanks Chuck, Question I have is regarding your last three statements1) Socialist class,2) Penalize racers who work hard and 3) throw out performance
Are you describing what is the current situation where any car, any brand, any amount of work on the car gets you a chance to "dial in" and back of to save the motor and race NATIONALLY or at points meets? because the Bracket racing style of racing is 90% of S and SS racing now?
What I am addressing is there need to be REWARDS for going fast, Money for winning class. If you have different aftermarket parts and they make you fast beyond the average combos then HP is how this averages out.It is what makes higher compression motors have a higher HP now by our system..

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

If you drop the indexes 5 tenths, it boots racers such as myself that are close on the index, or just barely under on a budget. I know that at one time stock was mainly a performance based class, but we got into stock because it is a glorified bracket race.

The heads up runs intrigue me, but I do not want to race in a category where we basically only have heads up.

We simply cannot afford to keep up with the Jones's and build a car that will run 1.30 under. And your proposed dropping the indexes .5 and make the trigger -.65 only takes out the slow guys. The fast guys can still go just as fast and not get hit, but racers such as us cant show up and have a chance at racing.

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

With all the rules the way they are, and being so liberal with parts and enforcement, I can't imagine anybody having a problem running the index now adays unless you are racing a real mutt. Being on a budget is one thing, not putting any effort or money is another. I think there are guys in our class that can't make there car run or don't want to because they just don't want to put any effort in it, or technology has passed them by. Some guys are also racing, but not car guys that want to work on there cars Guys that run fast want to be rewarded for there hard work by having the advantage of a fast car for heads up's ,quailifying, and so on. The guys that don't want this have there own ajenda, not sure what it is but they have there own. Be nice to be able to race like men once in a while. My nephew's tee ball team has a better sense of competition, AND NOBODY WINS AT THE END OF THE GAME. I forgot everybody gets a hotdog in the end. Let's come up with something to reward the fast guy who can pass tech and have a fast car.

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

Stock and Super Stock is still a performance based class. It may be a glorified bracket race to bracket racers, but not for the guys that have been doing this for over 30 years. My put is if you do not want to spend the money or work hard in your car, just keep bracket racing and stay out of class racing. If you do not want to have heads-up runs, stay out of the class. You still have a chance of racing in the class, however, you want to race under your own terms.

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

No offense Lee but I agree with Todd and SSDiv6, this is a performance based class and if you can't cut it then maybe stock is not for you. I have raced stock for over 35 yrs. and when I started the rules were not near as liberal as they are today. When I started we did not qualify and were not put on a ladder like we are today. I had guys follow me up to the staging lanes to race me because I was a 'first round bye' for them because I could not run the index. We have been given more than enough 'enhancements' to run well under the index. I have sat out most of the last three years because of several reasons and one of them has been lack of funds. I would love to be able to run a SS/AH car even if I could only run the index but financially for me that is not possible ... good luck

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

Dick,

This is so totally untrue. I know of one engine that has been factored at least a gazzilion times at 4HP a shot for the last 12 years, and still is bogus. The way it is going, we will all be dead and buried before that combo is reasonable. However, even then it will stop getting factored when the "average" gets to upper limit? Do you know how fast an engine has to be to "average" the upper limit?

Dont you think there is a difference in the after market parts approval game? Some are reasonable, some are not.

Secondly, the biggest issue in SS aside from the after market parts issue is the bogus intake runner numbers. Some engines got 10 ccs, some got 20 ccs, some got 30 ccs extra. That makes a big difference especially with after market parts.

Most S and SS racers know the score, but you seem to be oblivious or unwilling to recognize it. It is the reason we have a break out rule. It was necessary to save stock and super stock in the 1970s as everyone stopped showing up. The break out rule saved S and SS and that is a fact.

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

lynn, I again say this is a TECH issue. If the cars have a bogus runner size ALLOWED then it will make them run faster and they should be factored. I propose these changes admitting other things are affecting this racing but REWARD winners. Factoring Bogus combinations must be done more rapidly too I recognize this but if someone needs to push it to win the money my opinion the Money will make them do it at a faster rate too.
Someone also mis understood my comment about S and SS being entry payers. I feel S/G. S/C and S/St. are also entry payers. Everyone needs to recognize we have become used to being a participant sport instead of a Spectator sport.

Re: This will make AHFS work
 

Chuck,

We can't nor do I support doing anything about the items you listed except #4 and #7. The others are all fair game. All we can do is making it a level playing field to start. What you do with that opportunity is up to you.

If you want to spend 3/4 of your income on your car instead of giving it to some hot blond it is the American Way. ;):)