Re: New Indexs are up
 

Ed, with all due respect, being I have one of the new motors, I personally take offense to your comment about "having to test more". You act like people who race a new car/engine does not work on their combination! I understand that the older cars have been around longer, but don't make it seem like people with new cars/motors aren't working as hard as the next guy!

Additionally, in terms of easy heads ups, let's not forget the engine combination that you run and the on-track performance that your combination has shown!

Nick Morris
3718
GT/FSF

Re: New Indexs are up
 

But, Nick, the engine I run didn't run that fast the first year they were built. My car is 19 years old, the LT1 engine is 22. Lots of R&D. Just talking the last 12 months, how many cams, how many torque converters, how many transmission ratio changes, how many sets of headers, and sets of collectors do you have laying around that you tested, and are not as fast as what is on/in the car? Change rear gears, may need a different cam? Maybe bigger headers? Maybe the collectors? Do you have heads from two different shops, to find which are fastest? Ever try a different 2nd gear ratio? Besides days of dyno time? I have done all that this past year, need to have a garage sale. That is how most faster older cars are raced. The slower guys? Not so much. Does your local track contact you if somebody is renting the track for testing, to see "if you want in on this one too?" Mine often does.
I know Lloyd Wolford and his guys do. They also ran that SS/IA car Larry Stewart drove on 2 barrels most of the time. It was a rocket the first day it showed up, but they kept at it.
What is the problem? You have a class to run, and an index you should be able to run anytime. Should be fine for the bracket racing part, right? If not the easy class run offs and easy heads ups, why else so unhappy about it?

Re: New Indexs are up
 

Ed, Why am I unhappy? As I stated in my reply, I was unhappy with your general assumption that the new car/motors don't work hard on their combos! I think you're making assumptions without any knowledge!

In terms of the recent changes, please answer how happy you'll be when/if th same scenario is applied to all Super Stock classes. With the combining of sticks and automatics with the new classes and using the stick indexes, I beleive NHRA has established a precedent to use when they combine the remaining Super Stock classes. Assuming they are consistent, are you going to be happy losing anywhere from .10 to .25 on your index with the stroke of a pencil? Also, are you going to be happy running heads up against other LT1's that have a manual transmission?

Also, I must ask why were you unhappy before the recent changes? You had a class to run, an index that your combination can run way under, and easy heads ups and class run offs!

Nick

Re: New Indexs are up
 

SS/AA min record should be 9.20 not 8.30. Believe a typo from FSS/A.

Re: New Indexs are up
 

Nick, I am not trying to hurt your feelings. I meant why are most new car guys are unhappy with the new classes. Only down side I see are very easy class wins and heads ups against older cars like mine. And, I have no problem running stick cars heads up, and a tenth or two off the indexes? Everybody in SS? I have no problem with that either. Does not effect bracket mode, which is 95% of what we do anymore anyway, right?

Re: New Indexs are up
 

Ed, what about the easy heads up runs and class runoffs that your combination still enjoys? Is it okay for a 327 carb motor to run against your LT1 EFI car? If it's just a bracket race 95% of the time, please remind me why these changes were needed! In your response, please don't single out new car HP factors and conveniently over look the on-track performance of your combo!

And as you said, combine ALL sticks and autos and ALL of us lose the same amount of index and I'll be happy! However, I do feel automatic cars are at a disadvantage to stick cars from a performance stand point! Although, I'm just a driver so what do I know!

Nick

Re: New Indexs are up
 

Nick, can you say honestly, with a straight face and with self dignity, that your engine combination was factored fairly and accurately?

Re: New Indexs are up
 

Nick, you seem like a very nice guy, I am not trying to offend anybody. I don't think anybody being honest about this, can honestly compare an LT1 to the new cars. They are better cars than older cars you mentioned. There are slow LT1s around, guys that don't work as hard.
I don't know what you have. People tend to notice more cars similar to their's, so you may have not noticed the slower LT1s.
But I have yet to see, for instance, a slow Drag Pak. No slow COPOs or CJs either. The slower DPs can still run almost a second under if they want to. About any COPO can, and the CJs I have seen can too. The faster DPs can run way under. Keith Lynch's Hemi in my class, SS/JA, was over a second under with a Stock Eliminator engine, and 9" tires. Last I noticed he was still foot braking too. Somebody as sharp as Keith, with SS ported heads, manifold, light pistons, narrow rings, light rotating assy, solid roller cam(s), high ratio shaft rockers, trans brake, big tires, a chassis by somebody like Eastexas or B&B, think how far under they could run.
They would run more like Lloyd Wolford's cars. If you have a DP, and can't run like that, you might want to talk to James Caro and Sonny Stancil. They can make those things fly.
Do you know there actually new stick cars in your new class you can't run with?

Re: New Indexs are up
 

Kevin, my combination has a favorable hp factor. I don't think I've ever made a statement to the contrary.

Now, can you say honestly, with a straight face and self dignity, that other non-new car combinations are factored fairly and accurately?

Nick

Re: New Indexs are up
 

STILL no one will answer the question: "Why do automatics get a weight break in all of the other Super Stock subcategories in which Stick and Automatics are combined?"

Again, I am perfectly fine if my combination gets a (well-deserved) .20 index hit, so long as the manual transmission combinations take the same hit. If we run off the same index and automatics don't get a weight break when combined with Stick cars in the Factory classes, then I expect that the weight breaks for automatics in all other stick/auto combined classes should be deleted.

I am looking for a fair application of the rules. Either everyone should get it, or no one should get it. Either is fine.