Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The early A bodies are red-headed step-children just like '66-7 B bodies. Neat cars, but just don't attract the money and love.

I've owned and raced a '66 Valiant 2 door post car for almost 10 years and even I think they're ugly.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
Your closer to the car than anyone. So if it's an LO23D62 car, then the
VIN# is proper verification. Even if some posted info states that they were an LP23 (P = Premium), instead of an LO23 (O = Super Stock)
The general resto looks very good (ie; paint and interior).
The problem in selling the car might be, is that a D-Dart expert (not too many out there) might want a perfect or near-perfect D-Dart.
The non-experts (some collectors, out for profit only) might not be completely sure of what they are puchasing.
By the looks of the car, I don't doubt that there was an exhausting effort
put forth. But some of the little things could have been corrected.
Remember, limited production of a vehicle means nothing. It's the
consumer interest that drives the wheels.
I can get my hands on a 68' 340 Cuda (virgin and unre-stored), but I'm not sure I want to go through the time and effort of restoring it, and trying to sell it to make a profit. I know what the market will bear a 68' 340, and as nice as those cars are, I can't make the move. I'll lose money, not including all of the sweat equity.

Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The "collector car market" hasn't done any favors for those who just want to buy a car and race it.

The inflated prices that are collected for restored examples only serve to enrichen the restorer (and sometimes the auction company,) and make existing, un-restored cars worth more money, so, when a true hobbyist finds the car he wants to race, or just fix up into a neat street car, it ends up either being financially unattainable, or costs him a lot more than he would have paid, if it were not for "collectors" who use the hobby to make money.

I remember when you could buy all the '57 Chevy 2-door hardtops you wanted for about $200.00 apiece...complete and running. There was no "collector car" market, then...

Try to find one now, to turn into a Super Stocker...

I think it's a shame.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Bill,
The "Shark was Jumped" back in 2006, at Scottsdale, Arizona.
The "Ray Allen" "Briggs Chevrolet", 1970 1/2" SS454 Chevelle,
NHRA SS/EA record holder went for $1,200,000.
The big winners, Ray Allen. And a very nice commision check to
Barrett-Jackson.
The losers, everyone else involved in the Musclecar genre'.
Even Ray Allen was laughing at the way the (2) bidders were going
out-of-control. Barrett-Jackson pushed that bid way over the boundary.
Things really got out-of-control. It seems that now, the market is
leveling out, and maybe soon will be back where it belongs.
As for the D-Dart. Alan, what # car is that. If L023.....888 is the #1 car
(Ted Spehar's) and LO23....937 in Georgia is #50. Then what # is the car being auctioned. Will $30,000 do?
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The last three numbers of the VIN are 933 so it would be #45. Will $30,000 do for what? A down payment? I sold it for close to that ..... in driver condition. The gentleman that I sold it to sunk a lot of money into it.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I would suggest buying all 3rd generation Camaro's, Firebird,Corvette, Monte Carlo ss, Impala's and Fox Chassis Mustang before their prices go up.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I bought a '72 Valiant 4-door sedan... never have to worry about prices!!! :)

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I've got plenty of time at BJ auctions; as consignor, buyer and spectator. Some of the games that are played by the auction house deserve a federal indictment. Since I don't want to get sued, that's all I'll say here. But regardless of the auction house, surely most of us here are smart enough to know that a "high bid" is not even necessarily a "real bid". I've been on stage throwing out bids knowing I wont win just for the hell of it with my buddies. All that free liquor does have some influence after awhile, don't ya know! :o

What I see here are a few D-Dart owners hoping to make an ugly duckling popular; something that even mopar couldn't do 40+ years ago. Of course that would help the bottom line. If you really love 'em, go out and race 'em as they were intended. Has anybody contacted mopar to get the cars possibly accepted in Stock with an HP reduction to boot? Same with SS as the cars were intended. Have any of these interested parties petitioned for a HP reduction with NHRA or is it just bantering on the net? If not, get it together, it looks like a no-brainier to me.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
If you sold it as a driver for around $30,000, and the new owner popped in a ton of money for restoration (let's say $15,000 or so), does that
really make the car worth $45,000???
Is it being marketed as a #45 car with legend information.
It should be, with additional listed details, it may draw more interest.
But please, someone put back the "273 Four-Barrel" emblems back on the upper section of the front fenders.
Install the chrome exterior mirror on the driver side door, and re-attach the small chrome debris-deflector shield on the lower rocker area in front of the back wheels. (The little things).
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Maybe they could partner-up the D-Dart with lets say a 67' WO-23
Factory Hemi. Both cars on the block individually may struggle, but together a nice package.
Someone go out to Long Island, New York, and search for the WO-23
that was sold out of the Cy Green Dodge dealership. It sits in a
some garage in Massapequa. Un-touched for 40 years. Except for the
Magic Hemi Dust.
PC
OH, Cicero819, Nice Valiant in your contact photo. Is that the Jere' Stahl
Group, 66' Valiant E/SA at York, PA.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Not trying to make an ugly duckling popular, just like to see Mopars of historical significance. I guess I'm getting tired of seeing the same old trailor queen/purfumed pig hemo and sixpack cars getting all the attention. My 64 Dart post car garners a lot of attention because its different, Not a numbers matching, one of whatever car. It's something I'm putting together for the nostalgia look. Nothing wrong with being different.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Yes, that little Dart has the coolest looking nose.
Mako-shark style. Throw in a nice tweeked 340, S/S springs and
4.89's.
After that, the only thing the other small-blocks will be seeing is the
back-end.
Whats that Pocket-Rocket weigh, 2700 lbs. soaking-wet:).
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Haven't weighed it yet but I'm guessing 2900. Here's the business end. 273/4 speed 4:30's with 4:86's on the plate.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

VERY NICE:)
But how do you stop that car?
Surely those little drum brakes (9" originals) will get cooked going through the traps;).
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

know where there is 65 dart convertible, and 66 dart 2door...
anyone need these, not show cars old originals

jack mccarthy

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Hi Jack.
Might be interested. Give me a call. 215-788-1107. If you can make it to the Dutch would like to meet you.

Thanks Clayton

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

KH 4 piston disks in the front and 10" drums in the back. That should put some whoa in the go. I'm seriously considering running at Bonneville in the 130 and 150 MPH class. Running in those two classes is pretty straight forward. As a side note we have a local guy here that runs a 65 Barracuda with a big block that is still running on the 9" brakes and the single pot M/C. Kinda scary!!!

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Good brakes for the Dart.:)
Crazy brakes for the Cuda:eek:
The drum brakes never worked well on my 69' M-Code 440 Cuda.
I'll try to check out a 65' Dart 273/235 Commando (all original car), that still sits (garaged) in Jefferson Valley, NY. A convertible, with the
yellowing plastic rear window. Automatic, but with 7 1/4" rear.

Noticed the D-Dart on the auction block. The shifter is an "Inland" unit,
with the reverse-trigger handle. D-Darts came from the factory with
Hurst shifters, with a white round knob-handle. :confused:
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,
D-Darts came with the Inland shifter. I have a picture of John Bedell's D-Dart but have to resize it. Will post later. This is his car as rec'd by the dealership. Nice hub caps.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Here's the interior of John's car ..............

Paul --- what mods did the factory do to the carb?

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I'm almost positive on the D-Dart being equipped with the Hurst
Comp/Plus shifter. I have to check. But the 1966 D-Dart in the
Car Craft article from May 1966 shows the 4-speed with a Hurst unit.
Yes, the "Inland" shifter was standard equipment for the 66' thru 68'
Mopars. But the D-Dart??
Whats bizarre, is that the Hurst shifter was standard-equipment for the
1965 Mopars. Chrysler, go figure:confused:.
I don't think the D-Dart in the Car Craft article was modified, other than
14" x 6" Cragars, 7" inch slicks and a performance tune-up.

On the Holley carburetor. I'm pretty sure the (jets) were changed (sized up, richer mixture) at the factory, and something else???
I know the Marine engine guys used to put a screw in the throttle
control, to make the #4160 carb a mechanical secondary, but that
wouldn't be legal for NHRA stock class. The guys at "Camcraft"
had the right combo for the carburetor and camshaft on the 273 Marine
engines. Cruising Chessapeke Bay.:)
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Yes, the "Inland" shifter was standard equipment for the 66' thru 68'
Mopars. But the D-Dart??

PC[/QUOTE]

I hate to disagree as you seem to be quite knowledgeable about mopars, but sitting in my garage right now is a 68 Satellite factory 383 4 speed car that I bought from the original owner with 46,000 miles that came with a "Hurst" shifter. I have found that nothing surprises me in what you may find as factory installed on mopars....and I have seen other 68's with the "Inland" shifter.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Ronnie, is it just the lever, or the box too? Chrysler was good for putting a Hurst lever with the Inland box. Also, are you sure the original owner did not change it?

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

It is defineatly the original shifter. It has the brown imitation wood knob on it and I called the original owner 10 minutes ago and he assured me it is the shifter that came in the car when he purchased it new and I bought it from him in 1981. I do know it has a bolt on stick so it is possible that it is a Hurst lever only. I'll try to jack it up this weekend and see if it is a Hurst shifter or lever only.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Mopar Steve and Ronnie,
Your both right.
In later production1968 cars, the chrome-lever for the 4-speed was converted from the "Inland" to the "Hurst".
Some cars still had the "Inland" shift-control mechanism's though.
You can tell the difference between an "Inland" mechanism and
a "Hurst' mechanism, very simply. With an "Inland" unit, you should be
able to read a chapter of "War and Peace" in-between shifts:)
In 1970, my mother had a 340 Duster, with the "Hurst" chrome-level and plastic brown knob. The throws between shifts were not as short as a
"Hurst" Competition/Plus, but not as long as the "Inland" on her 67' 273
Commando Barracuda. The length was somewhere in-between. I
think "Hurst" made a street-type mechanism for the Mopar shifters.
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Oh, the D-Dart info.
May 1966, Performance Car Review (now defunct) did an article on
the 1966 D-Dart and 1966 K-Code 289/271HP Mustang.
The D-Dart was equipped with a "Hurst" shifter from the factory.
It was part of the S.C. 364 Super Stock 66 Package. The "Hurst" model was listed, which was C/P ( I guess Competition/Plus).
I think Hemmings Motor News may have the part #'s or more detailed info on the article.
Also, stated that the D-Dart engine (short-block components) were
equipped with selected parts. Probably a visual inspection of the
10.5-1 pistons and connecting rods. Anything with an imperfection was dis-carded. Doesn't say anything about secondary engine component
balancing. Suprisingly not done, even though the specialty engine
building facility was equipped with a new state-of-the-art Stewart-Warner
engine balancing unit.
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

dart4forte,

Do I see an AM Radio in John Bedell's Dart?
The D-Dart was a radio delete code.
They were all equipped with a heater unit though (w/functioning controls).

On the Factory Holley #4160 carburetor modifications.
1)..Part #66. Secondary diaphragm spring was changed.
Since the D-Dart was a 4-speed/manual shift, the secondaries needed to open quicker for better mid-range response.
2) Part #105. Primary pump diaphragm assembly was changed.
For higher pump pressure, and increased fuel volume.
3) Primary metering jet changed.
I think the carb was equipped with a #66 jet (.0690 size) as standard.
It may have been replaced with a #73 jet (.0790 size).
Recommendations included changing the primary jets as needed to;
A) #75 jet (.0810 size)
B) #77 jet (.0855 size)
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,
I'm back over here now.............................
One last question on the carb. What Holley rebuild kit would I use to rebuild my 3778? Holley doesn't list a kit for it.
One request on the Performance Car Review article. Could I get a copy of it from you? That's one that I don't have. Just checked ebag and didn't see any listed.

Thought that I mentioned that the photo of John's car had the radio in it -- because he had the dealership install it. It wasn't factory installed. I have a photo showing the engine. The air cleaner has a yellow sticker on it. Must be the Factory Disclaimer.

Just looked at the Car Craft magazine article Draggin' The D/Dart. It shows a shot of the interior with the Inland shifter. Most racers changed their's to the Hurst. It wasn't factory installed. I also checked on the D/Dart site to see if Paul Canizzaro (worked for Chrysler on the D/Dart program) said anything about the Hurst shifter being a factory installed piece. Didn't see anything. Paul did mention that the car that was given to Car Craft for the article was tuned by Dick Landy. He also said that Landy balanced and blue printed the engine and had Kenyon work on the heads.
Alan

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I agree. The car Craft article from August of 66 shows as tested an Inland shifter. On the D/Dart article I too didn't see where Paul Canizzaro mentions a Hurst shifter

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Could the Hurst shifter have been a 65 thing? Back in high school, I had a 65 Plymouth Valiant Signet (Our Canadian Valiants looked more like the same year US Darts in 65 &66) It had a 235HP 273 "Commando" & 4 speed, and it had a round handle shifter with a flat section on either side with "Hurst" stamped into the stick. Up here at least, the 65 V8 Valiants used the small 6 cyl. type rearend (mine had 2.91 limited slip), while the 66`s used a 8 3/4. My car also had a tiny (9 1/4"?) clutch, what size clutch would a D Dart have used? Did they also retain that oddball "ball & trunion" driveshaft like mine, which used a bolt on flange on the back of the 4 speed trans?

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

66 was the first year for the Inland shifter. Ma Mopar went to that POS shifter as a cost saving measure. I heard another story that Hurst wasn't able to keep up with the demand for their shifters in that GM was also a large purchaser of the Hurst product. Anyway, it wasn't until mid 68 that they went back to Hurst.

On the clutch, they used a Weber Speed Equipment clutch set-up but not sure on the diameter. Good question on the ball and trunion tranny. My guess is that it didn't use that set-up in that they were transitioning over to the new u-joint style of shaft.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
I'll have to re-visit the Car Craft article. Doesn't make sense to have
that car run with an "Inland" unit. The "Hurst" shifters back then were only about $80. The "Hurst" unit would have knocked an easy 2/10's (.20) off that E.T.
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The dart in the CC mag was suppose to have been preped by Landy. If so I wonder why he didn't put a Hurst unit in?

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,

Nowhere in that article does it specifically mention the shifter. However, looking at the picture on page 25 where Jack Cudworth is sitting behind the wheel the shifter looks to be the Inland. The stick looks a lot thicker than the Hurst and the handle is not the usual ball you find on a Hurst. In the article, Niles Holman states "the transmission shifts unusually hard on the street and in some cases impossible to place in second and third when shifting normally." Having rowed gears using the Inland, sounds to me from his description that's an Inland in the test car.

John

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Well if it's and "Inland", its an "Inland".
It looks to be. I guess I wasn't looking at the picture, I just assumed
it would be a Hurst Comp/Plus on a factory package.
Going by the description of shifts between 2nd and 3rd, thats the
M.O. for an "Inland".
Whats that, about 12" between throws for shifting?
Now the crazy question. Why would they leave in the horrible "Inland" shifter, and pop on nice Cragar S/S wheels and 7" slicks. And who installed the headers, if they they came in the trunk from the factory
with the "Y" pipe connector.
I don't have the complete Car Craft article.

For Alan, Good luck on trying to find a Holley rebuild kit for the
List #3778. The only thing I could come up with is, the carb came standard with F-66 Stock jetting, 134-21 metering-plate and a 6.5
power valve. The other items i mentioned previously were changed made at Chrysler Performance, before the car left the factory.
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
Performance Car Review was a Detroit-based 6-page newsletter that was published from late 65' thru 66'. Just local Performance Center
Speed Shop that did general reviews on Performance Cars. Had quotes from H. Dale Reeker, Ramchargers tech. Don't think more than a
dozen newsletters were published. Distributed at local speed shops
and performance centers, and parts stores. Like "1320 News".
The D-Dart they reviewed was from Van Dyke Dodge, Van Dyke Ave,.
Warren, Michigan.
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

"66 was the first year for the slip yoke trans in the A-body.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,
Thanks for all the info on the D/Darts. You know more then I do about the cars. You are the master.

I'll have to keep my eyes open for the newsletters. Maybe Stacy's Performance might have them. Seen him advertise a bunch of old magazines on ebag. Never knew about them or Iwould have looked for them.

I wonder what dealership Ted's D/Dart came from. I was thinking maybe Hodges, since he was based on that side of town. But Van Dyke Dodge was close too. And the other possibility is, maybe it was delivered right to him. By the way, I lived 5 miles from Van Dyke Dodge -- from 1978-2003.

Jon had a Carter on the car when he raced it. He did send me a picture of the engine bay. It didn't have the correct D/Dart air cleaner on the car back then.

Alan

Just looked at my 1965 parts book and it shows the old ball and trunion for the A-Body.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Yeah, kinda hard to belive that they, that is Landy's boys left that shifter in/ Also, reading on D/Dart site Landy was suppose to of bluprinted that motor. With those cheater slicks I would of thought the car would of dipped into the high 13's


Would you like a copy? I can scan a copy from work and e-mail it.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
Thank you for the compliment.
Much appreciated.
Just trying to be helpful with the D-Dart thread.
Too many "Myth's and Misconceptions".
But thats a good thing, throws a little mystery into the D-Dart quotient:confused:
I wonder if you did any late-nite burn-outs an 11 Mile Road?
I'll try to print a copy of the D-Dart newsletter, faded and worn.
Not sure who put it together, looks like a bulletin that you would get at church on Sunday.
On the transmission question. The conventional yoke-type came into
play very late in 65' (66' production year). Here's the kicker, the
65' transmissions had a 3.09 1st gear. Called the "Granny-gear".
How about a line-launch with that ratio,
PC