Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Thanks for the suggestions Bill, I have the open tracker double roller perches (nice pieces) don't know what I am using for shocks yet, I may spend the money for custom pieces. I planed to install the bearings in my control arms.

I sent a letter in requesting clarification on this and the cam bearing, as it looks like I started a sh*storm with that...it's better to find out what the deal is sooner than later.

What did you use for front springs?

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I am not absolutely sure what the front springs are. When I bought the car I am pretty sure that Denny said that they were from a 351 car. It sat a little high in the front and I cut half a coil off them which got the height just about right. I have about 1" of downtravel at rest, perhaps a touch less. Remember, I have a 750 lb chunk of cast iron sitting in there :eek:. I gotta believe that the Boss 351 is 150 lbs less than that.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The boss is lighter...I have access to springs, when I get it all together and scale it I will do the math and put whatever it needs...they may even be dif from side to side

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Are you having springs made Bill ? I need to change mine as well but all I've come up with are a pair for a Maverick off of rockauto.com.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The compressed standard ride height is aprox 12" . I am not saying this is what to use but moroso drag springs for the ford are 242 rate designed for 1610-1690 front end weight.

If you scale the car you can select springs from many places, here is an example

http://www.racingsprings.com/Sportsm...ngs/Store/1417

Typical drag race stock suspension front springs are longer with the correct rate to get the ride height set back to standard, as in the case of the mustang aprox 12"

without scales and a calculator you are just "guessing" unless you copy something that somebody else already uses (edit, you want to take the free length of the spring and do the math to set ride height...example, 1600 front end weight with 800 on each tire and you want to get to 12" ride height you would need a spring with 16" free length x 200 rate = 12 ride height.....but in the real world the rate increases as the spring is compressed, you would need to take that into the calculations also...and reread the paragraph above this, drag race front springs are usually longer than stock)

some springs will be ground flat at both ends so you will need to cut a coil on one end to get a pigtail....you need to figure that into the calculations.

Then the best setup would be track test and adjust

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Got this finally.....the dog is wearing out the UPS man....still waiting for the crossmember, soon the front end will start taking shape

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6lh284eh.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

If the scale @ our track is right, my Cougar is about 1950lbs. for front weight. As it sits in the garage Im showing 9" long sitting 1" off the bump stop. (Its a little low) So for a 200 rate spring, is that about 14" long free length ? Thanks for the link, did not even think to look there.

Edit: They dont have a 14 so, I guess, start here : PAC-SR16x5x175

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

That is not the only place to get spings, check some others out. not so sure I would go by the track scales ( I guess it can get you in the ball park) it is made for weighing the whole car

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The directions are here:D

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...psh6eiuaxe.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Look @ all the goodies !! :D

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

grey area....I need to get some clarification before I can proceed as I am getting shot down on things that are already out there running and have been for years:confused:


gray a·re·a.

[ɡrā ˈerēə]

NOUN

1.an ill-defined situation or field not readily conforming to a category or to an existing set of rules:

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Did you trip on the crack between the rule book and the race track?

Dale

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Hey Bill why not just go on with your build,and get it to the track and worry about the grey /gray area after it has been torn down, and if it does'nt make it thur put a single plane intake on it an run superstock.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

That is the plan, I have another cam already being ground for SS.

the whole exercise is to see how my knowledge stacks up against the rest and set records, and that would not get any respect if not done legally.

But.....wouldn't it be sweet to qualify well up in the pack in SS with a legal stocker :eek::eek::eek:

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Front brake options...I thought I was going to use Strange but after much research on the subject it looks like they will be Lamb.

3300+ weight...... I am all ears.

suggestions?

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Although they do not show a front brake system in their catalog, you should call Mark Williams. They also make a great front brake system.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I think I recall Mark Williams having a set up as well when we were looking for a set for ours. Never got around to it though. They might have required a different spindle if memory serves me. Been a while.

Rick

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I have Wilwoods on my '71. I used drum brake spindles since you had to butcher the disk brake spindle and I wanted to keep the OEMs. I went with what they then called "medium duty" which is a narrow vented rotor. The light duty are solid rotors and would probably be fine for drag racing. They work great, good price, good fit, no complaints. My car minimum weight was 3640.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Bill, I did look at the Wilwoods, the drag race kit looks like it has an updated bracket that fits both drum and disc spindles (actually the bracket is a nice piece) and I have disc spindles

I am just wondering how much "finish line" abuse they would take.

To the other posters I like Mark Williams also, just have not made up my mind yet.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The official response from NHRA is I am going to delete post #15 and replace with babbit, darn it!....and also....the paperwork says they are not legal in the control arms either:eek:

The heads passed with flying colors:D:D:D

Just cleaning up some of the grey area before I get there

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

We are rolling now...why does the race car always seem to turn into a storage unit for boxes?
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...pszk0kacev.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Congrats on the heads.

Sooner asked this question a couple years ago (roller spring perch). So are the roller perches ok but not the control arms. Officially speaking of course. :D

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...ht=opentracker

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Dave, I have not asked about the perches.

None of this would be an issue if I didn't tell everybody how fast I was going to go or how much power I can make...ect :D

With that being said, that's the purpose of this build thread, everybody reads the book a dif way. If I am going to set a record..lol, I want it to be legal to the T. What sense of accomplishment would it be if you are well aware that you are illegal or in the grey area and just have not been looked at yet?

I know that's how some don't see it, and others that have been doing things a certain way for years......but this is the way I am doing it.

As some have pointed out, if it does not say you can't, don't assume you can

let me ad one more thing...I am not a fan of the "protect your combo" at all, if there are performance rules to adhere to it should be run as a performance based program. I also understand that some combos have more favorable ratings than others and why they do what they do...if the program was run off national records in time it would fix all that

The 351 Boss 330 is one of, if not the toughest combo to build at 355hp that's why I selected it for the challenge, I will admit I have pondered the thought of changing to the 285 version though.

Rant over.....enjoy the rest of the build

Edit.....None of this is directed at you Dave, just the first line way up top about the perches..lol

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

[QUOTE=Bill Diehl;491445]Dave, I have not asked about the perches.

None of this would be an issue if I didn't tell everybody how fast I was going to go or how much power I can make...ect :D

With that being said, that's the purpose of this build thread, everybody reads the book a dif way. If I am going to set a record..lol, I want it to be legal to the T. What sense of accomplishment would it be if you are well aware that you are illegal or in the grey area and just have not been looked at yet?

I know that's how some don't see it, and others that have been doing things a certain way for years......but this is the way I am doing it.

Should be a cool car! Heck if you are the only one running it, bombs away!

You might have to change your Signature to A,B,C,D stick :)

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Let me tell a story about, "passed with flying colors".

Several years back I purchased a '86 Oldsmobile Stocker. It came with a new engine, with complete shortblock - remainder to be assembled, but the heads had been passed by both Div 6 & 7 tech people and were freshly done by a known engine builder.

Well I was going to Texas to race, so I drove West and picked up the car and left it with friends at Denver. I did look at the heads (307 Olds 317's), and they were bogus in my opinion, so I decided to take one along to get checked. One of the well known tech people agreed to check it out so I took it to him and left. I came back an hour or so later and he said, "its good to go". So it passed. Then I pointed out the three things that were obviously incorrect to anyone familiar with that head. After looking at them again he said, "Yeah I wouldn't be putting them on your car if I were you".

So! What does "passed tech" really mean. Some tech guy who doesn't know squat looked at it and said it was OK? Remember, I had three (one very knowledgeable) look at mine and passed it. I had to show him the problem areas. Did Bill show him the changed valve angles he talked about? Has the lifter bore angle change been addressed with tech? The heads wouldn't need that odd-ball looking pushrod hole if everything was still at STOCK angles (exh. 3 degree, int. 9.5 & 4.25 degrees off center). Did tech even check that? Do they ever? Maybe they should.

So Bill, if you want to be, "legal to the T", as you said, maybe you should point out these grey areas to the tech people as I did and THEN see if they pass. If they do, then go for it, but Stock as a class will be ruined if it hasn't been already.

Jerry

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I just ask it that way cause the perch is bolted to the A-arm, I guess I ASsumed a response from Glendora about a bearing on the A-arm would have included the perch since it could be seen as part of it. And a couple of the responses in Sooners thread left me with the question if it was OK to use the opentracker stuff in both places. But I did realize that the thread also made reference to SS cars, not just Stk. So I just ask, and a lot of guys on here have more experience with tech than I do. If I get mine under the # finally, I'll experience more than just "bracket" tech myself. :o:o:o

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

valve angles are within the 1* allowed, they are exactly what you have printed in bold above "stock" as ford machined them...as you should know... castings very from batch to batch, that's why it "looks" like they have been changed when in fact they have not, which is why I have said...these are the best set yet. The rules do say you are allowed to clearance the pushrod holes.

as far as the lifter angles..... I have gotten a dif answer as you have depending upon who you talk to. I have not crossed that bridge yet..

In honesty...I feel that if the razor blades for rings and gas ported spacer are legal, they are not spelled out as ya or ney in the book, but everybody uses them (the most expensive rings in all racing I might ad) I don't see what the problem would be with correcting the lifter angles as they are still .875 dia.

Bill

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The aftermarket "track Boss" 351C block is approved for NHRA stock/superstock applications.

Also there will soon be a Diamond Boss piston on the approved piston list too

Blocks and pistons should both be available in 2-3 months

info for those interested

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The iron "Track Boss" block will be a welcomed piece by the Cleveland clan. I looked at the casting photos of the aluminum version and noticed a crusty old BOSS Dual Point Distributor sitting in it. Oddly enough, that crusty looking thing is probably worth half of what the block sells for.

Jerry

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Any idea on the price for the new block ? I've been looking @ Aussie blocks for a second, better, engine. A guy down the road sells them.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

$3250- $3750

Siamese bore, splayed caps,1 piece rear seal, cast and machined in the USA capable of 4.200 bore. a CGI version will be available at a later date. aluminum will be available first, then cast, then cgi. no price on the alum or cgi yet

the cast iron version has NHRA approval

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Bill try here for the block.. We are looking at one for a ss car we have..
http://www.tascaparts.com/engine-blo...qNdRoCh6_w_wcB

Scott

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

That's a Windsor block and he needs a Cleveland. I don't really know the difference with the block. The M-6010 series of BOSS blocks are readily available as accepted replacements. I have the BOSS 302 block in my Mustang.

Dale

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

That is correct Dale, the Cleveland blocks that are nhra approved will be available in a few months. When they are cast and machined they will be added to the accepted products list

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

the ss guys are running the Windsor stuff so I figured the stocker guys could also.. My bad

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Bill,
I recommend for you to save your money on the rings and give Greg @ Tri City a call for a set of rings that WILL work and cost 1/3 of what you are talking about.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The Windsor engines were built from 1961to 2000 and the Cleveland family from 1970 to 1982. Both families had 351 cid engines. The Cleveland got the good cylinder heads and the Windsor got the stronger block. Some folks have reworked the water passages to fit Cleveland heads on Windsor blocks but NHRA says NO! That's why these guys are so interested in opening their wallets for aftermarket approved 351C blocks.

The currently available Ford Racing BOSS 351 is a Windsor. You could run it in SuperStock but not Stock.

Dale

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

about .300'' taller deck and .250'' larger main aren't direction you want to go on stock/super stock besides being illegal,if building 427 windsor, then taller deck and larger main works well.
Mike Taylor 3601

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The current Windsor Boss 351 blocks are available in both 9.2" and 9.5" decks. They also have the Cleveland main size.
Roland

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

They even have a 9.200 dh with 302 mains.. They are harder to find but available... Talked to the guys at ford the other day..

In the early 90,s when we ran the 351 C in GT/B we had a lot of issues when they really started making power. We went 9.30 at almost 148+ in 1994 with this combo with a G force trans that had to be clutched on all shifts.. So they will make a lot of hp..

I had an entire kit with all the part numbers and all for ford to approve, a Windsor block for the Cleveland then and ford never submitted it to NHRA. I already had NHRA ok with it if Ford had submitted it as a replacement.
Scott