Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

You may what to look at your air inlet hose and filter. If that is a cone filter there is hp gains by just put a piece of tape on the end that we found on a wheel dyno with are 4 cly. Smooth bore hose and getting the length right is important. Tom

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Thanks, Tom. We tried some of that the other day.
First a 9" straight piece, then just 3 inches plus the filter.The engine would still miss and scatter off idle, once warmed up.
I "fixed" ,or fooled, i should say, that problem by taking the thermister / sender out of the water jacket and just having it plugged in and fastened outside the engine..
Now, the only problem is that when power shifted into 2nd, it sounds like I'm lifting the gas, but I'm not. I tried it at 6000, then again at 5500..Same deal.
I must mention, we're at 4600 ' , with a d.a. of 7300' .. I'm thinking that there's just not enough oxygen available in the intake when the shift pulls it down.
We're going to try it next week at Chandler, where the d.a. will be about half that.
Any ideas about this issue, anyone?

It is MAF, open loop, stock computer.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Lots of things is this a stock cam or a stocker cam? Is the ecm tuned to the new setup? Do you have good grounds to all components. Is there any codes, can you monitor AF ratio, what duty cycle are you injectors running. There is a lot of stuff going on, a trip to a wheel dyno is worth a lot, we change are whole power curve with small changes. Tom

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Stock, as in OEM cam.

ECM is bone stock . I have no way to crack into it,

Grounds? The whole engine and body is one big ground..(see thread)

No oxy sensor. No EGR. No vapor solenoids..Still, NO codes

Yes..A/F gauge

Duty cycle? Have no idea ..Stock 4 hole

One thing I am sure of.This car isn't getting an expensive tune up by someone else. Can't change anything anyway, except the fuel pressure

Thanks

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Are you using a MAP sensor? If so, you might try installing a potentiometer in the MAP sensor circuit so you can adjust the voltage from the MAP sensor to the stock ECU. Not sure if it works on a Ford, but it did work on a Mopar.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

These have an MAF sensor.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

I am not that smart of a man but if you are running a stock system why are you running in open loop? I am not up on the early ford systems and I am sure you have talk to others running this combo. Was the air filter a dry unit, if it is a oil coated one they mess up the maf sensor. Duty Cycle is injector percentage on off if you get around 85 % you need bigger injectors. Tom

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Fair question... My answer is consistency. Every EFI car I fooled with, going back 33 years, was deadly consistent,..with no oxygen sensor.
Technically, mine would be closed loop , minus the sensor, and the ECU might be confused and looking for something that isn't there.
I plan on getting inside the computer soon .Probably after I run it once.
I'll give it some fuel and timing, and go from there. Meanwhile, I can't imagine maxing out an injector, with a stock camshaft.You?

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

I run my Escort in open loop in part because I run leaded gas, because I'm fiddling with the ignition lead in the computer but I don't want it to detonate, and in part because of what Mark said, Consistency. I'm turning off "Adjustments". The air filter was stock, a dry element in front of the MAF. I haven't Data Logged enough to know if mine is @ or past 85% but I did set the Requested AFR @ 12.7 and the car responded positively.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

So, we went down to Wild Horse for the Summit race last night.
There were enough S/SS cars to have a 3 round combo race..I'm glad I didn't totally embarrass myself with my friends.
I guess this is good news but it doesn't feel that way yet.
The little car seems to be okay...No wheel hop or torque steer that's usually associated with FWD cars.
It felt pretty good behind the line at 4 grand. I decided to bring it out at 5000 at that point. it immediately started leaning out on the line. It spun a bit then didn't want to rev up, so I shifted it low. That didn't help. It did it in every gear as I went thru in 4th, but way too low rpm-wise. It felt like about a second over run ..I had to look at the time slip twice to believe it..It ran about .56 under !.
I tried a second pass with the fuel pressure cranked up and some more heat in the motor. It shut down before the 60' clocks, so I just coasted thru and loaded it up and headed for the hills.

Bottom line here ,is it should be a second under car, with the computer straightened out...

I built the car for our local combo series, but the future of that looks rather bleak.
I'd probably sell it really cheap right now..I mean really cheap...before I get in the mood to start working on it again.
Meanwhile, here's a few left over pics.
This one is the water pump brackets, and yes , I owe you a finished picture, which I will do soon.
https://i.postimg.cc/524wnKrW/20210501-120945-1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/02gPqLGD/20210515-175323.jpg

[img]http
s://i.postimg.cc/02gPqLGD/20210515-175323.jpg[/img]

https://i.postimg.cc/gjyZK3q0/20210517-164001.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/HLJ8hq4R/20210429-160220-1.jpg

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Don't be a quitter

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Come on Mark, hang in there. You can figure it out!

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

I didn't think I had to prove to anyone, least of all myself, that I know how to do this s**t
LOL

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

My first thought was how someone could consider a guy that's done this since Jesus was a Bishop a quitter.......lol

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Quick update... Going to test and maybe bracket race this lil' honey Friday, Saturday @ Tucson.
I was able to gain access to the computer through the help of (new national record holder) Robin Lawrence @ Holley. Hoping for lots of improvement here.
Might even be ready for our Combo series early next year, if we get some dates confirmed.

BTW , If anyone is looking for a stand alone system for S/SS ,I'd recommend Holley.
Others may be "fast" but Holley's service network is second to none.

I lowered the rear end some more.The tire difference was making to look too weird for my taste.

https://i.postimg.cc/DyPS1d0y/20211015-144102.jpg

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

The 5 principles of attaining success; Positivity, patience, persistence, discipline and visualization.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

"This one is the water pump brackets, and yes , I owe you a finished picture, which I will do soon."

https://i.postimg.cc/j2TgqJSk/20210707-191923.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/Y026yN9k/20210707-192218.jpg

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

and Tequila! Lots of it!

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

You take your medicine today.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Tucson Report
Seeing this is an altitude track, I won't bother with actual time digits.
But started out about 70 under. Raised the starting line RPM , raised the timing, leaned the fuel out.. etc. Last run last night, 86 under. First this morning 87 under. I guess that's okay for these inconsistent stick cars.
Fiddled around a bit more and ran 1.02 under ,then 1.04 under.
It's all coming back to me after 7 years off.

Main two things I learned are that I can't go through at 6300 with a stock cam, and that's not a good time to be shifting into 4th. It needs a better cam that will like RPM a little more.
Also, that it's really hard to set the rpm on 5 grand and watch the tree too, without a 2 step.

So at least two Christmas presents to myself. Anybody have a USA built 6AL and a two step that is just collecting dust? The cam won't be as easy but we're working on that.

I guess I'll be putting the paint job off for a while ;-)

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Great build Mark... glad to see you doing it..
I have one comment... Kadar and Dime Rocker... sorta Oxymoron-ish to me. LoL
Love the Ol'Yac on the window...
good luck with it....

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

LOL ..We trade some labor... and Pontiac parts too.
Thankfully my cylinder head was in great shape ..Guides, valves, springs..He knows about my D/R plans .
If a valve breaks, it's all on me ..Not him.

Thanks for following along

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Impressive stuff, Mark! But none of should be surprised - you know what you're doing. It is always fun to see the run-by-run progress.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Okay, I completely forgot to update this last January, after our double Combo deal.
Saturday was so windy, we had to race 1/8th mile ...Not a fan at all.I built this car, thinking I'd be getting 7-8 second head starts. Normally, I would have bailed out for Saturday but I wanted to support the boys' efforts in this series.
Come to find out, my car only runs about .3 under in the 1/8th.
First round , a friend (we're all friends here) put a package on me , and that was that.
Sunday, we went back to 1/4 mile, and my little car went back to about a second under.
I managed to go a few rounds and get semi-final money. Probably had a shot in that round but took my foot out of it. Big mistake.
I don't have enough data to know what kind of a run I was on.
But I did learn some things ,which I'll address and report on later.
Lately, I been working on a coat of Summit Pure White.
I can't paint in my shop, so I had to do it in three stages outside the door, early in the morning. It came out okay I guess. It's kind of a 10 footer right now, but I'm in the process of spiffing it up a little.
Yup , I'm getting to the pictures ;-)
https://i.postimg.cc/1tqk67Kf/20220319-144924-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SNyPNxHX/20220826-112710.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/fR15Xzqf/20220828-201219.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SRb1DwFR/20220820-130522.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/4yZX3TTJ/20220831-164054.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/FFZ25S1d/20220831-164144-2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/kG11VxtT/20220909-182916.jpg

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Congratulations for your first qualifying run at the Div 7 Wild Horse Pass Motorsports Park with a 17,07 sec. on the EF/S index at 17,45.:)
Keep on Sir,

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Thank you ,Charles.
Fact is we finally figured out a way to add a bunch of timing to the stock computer. Turns out, it didn't like higher timing at all. It's now back to the setup that was FAST!

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

This is a cool build you going to the Phoenix national ?

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

I'll leave that to the new owner ...;-)

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

New project maybe?

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Ohhh he's going to have a new project, chained to my custom made steel table he's so very fond of, building me his very good working transmissions one right after another. :)

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

This is for Billy, and his question on my For Sale thread.
I don't want to get cross -wise with Ken when he gets home...

Yes, I remember when IHRA was loaded with stick cars that could pound the tires into the ground in order to hook on some of those SE tracks.

I remember winning a points meet with my R/Stock wagon @ 4130 lbs. I was one of the very few who could get a semblance of bite that day.
Fact is, I'd be fine with no more glue. I wonder who else would say that?

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Very doubtful ..See my For Sale thread.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Who is the new owner Mark??

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

I don't know yet, Bill..But it would have to be a different owner to take it to a national event. ;-)

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Good Ole Captain Jack ……..:)

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Still the proud owner here, so I'm working on a camshaft deal in case I have a place to test next Fall.
I'll be gone to the hills in a few weeks for the summer months, so I wouldn't be able to deliver the car anyway.
I've edited my various ads to reflect this , and have offered a bit of a discount too if anyone is interested at this time.
So, we'll see if and when the saga continues here.
MY

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

I think I better get back on this deal..Everywhere I look , I see EF/S cars lately

Okay, so thanks to another Racer and CR classifieds, I got my hands on an MSD that's compatible with the multi - port coil, wasted spark deal, such as mine and the Grand National Buicks. So , for the first time in two years, I'll know what RPM I'm leaving the line at.

https://i.postimg.cc/Ghq0FNxb/20230916-141223-1.jpg

I re-worked the brake system by eliminating the power brake booster, the diagonal brake system, and all proportioning valves. The original P/B system worked too good, with the stock camshaft, making it very hard to stage with just a bit of line lock pressure.
I had to drill the brake pedal and move the pivot up a bit, to get the leverage I needed.
It's all good to go now.
https://i.postimg.cc/YSmqykd6/20230817-174610.jpg

Now that Wild Horse is open again, occasionally, my first plan was to go down there and test last Saturday night. But, seeing it was 94 here , that makes it about 110 in the Valley, so I decided to pass on that. Next chance will be Oct. 6th. with a bracket race the next day. That's the Bakersfield weekend, but I would'nt make that run with out testing first.
I haven't totally ruled out the Vegas Divisional , but I'm optimistic that we'll get some of our S/SS Combos next year. Not going to bump up my for sale ad until I hear what's going on, on that front.

Later...

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Hey Yac,
I am at exactly the place you were before your PB to manual brake conversion (except stepping back a step, and swapping out the cam back to a lower lift and overlap/duration numbers, and restoring my PB system to operate better and improve the bottom end numbers a lot without affecting the top end much, at least until November when I can pull the transaxle, freshen it, and send my converter in to be loosened up a bunch, and collecting the parts and pcs necessary to do the full PB to manual brake conversion plus add the 80's Mopar SLH II or SLH III larger conversion pcs. at the same time.

But, I really love the mount you made for your master cyl.

If I provided my orig. stock booster to get the accurate bolt hole center measurements from directly, is there any chance I could request & convince you to fab up another duplicate for me please sir?

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Possibly, if you're not in a big hurry.
If I don't go to Vegas, I can get said items back very close to me.
Let me know if that will work.

Re: It's About Time (Not MPH)
 

Definitely am not in a hurry here, it will take me a while to collect all the other parts for the SLH II or SLH III mopar brakes upgrade, and not thinking about starting to make any conversion until after November. Transaxle will be coming out then, freshened, and Converter sent off and at that point I can stand in the hole, do my Holley engine harness, and then start the conversion, probably Mid December or so before I would even need an approx. length of what the finished mount would be plus or minus an inch, and I can mock up and hang the master and run my new lines, and get my pedal geometry correct, pretty much the last part I would need.

The old cannister would not need to be returned to me, as I just installed a new one, any Auto Zone would refund a core charge also if dropped off when no longer needed or trashed.
If you do come up this way to Vegas. I will give it to you then. If not I will get it to you (along with a ck), and whenever you have time, I would really appreciate it!

And I thank you.