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-   Factory Stock and Super Stock (https://classracer.com/classforum/forumdisplay.php?f=50)
-   -   History Repeats itself (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=50654)

ALMACK 03-11-2014 07:02 AM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lew Silverman (Post 423955)
Not wishing to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think Mike may have meant that an "interested competitor" could somehow convince Ford (or GM, Chrysler/Fiat, Toyota, etc.) to publish the specifications to allow inclusion into the Classification and Engine Blueprint Guides. The information should be available, as I am sure the OEM's have to furnish most of it to various governmental agencies in order to be allowed to market their products. Whether they WANT to release that information on vehicles which they have decided they have no desire to market for drag racing competition (which seems to be the almost overwhelming answer we have been receiving since the last full update of the Guides') will be the big problem.
I see what you are saying Lew.
After re-reading what Mike wrote, I can see your point.

I still wonder if IHRA has a way to verify the variable cam timing deal for Pure Stock.

Steve Stickel 03-11-2014 01:40 PM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
1 Attachment(s)
Al,
There are ways to check all this but may seem complicated to those who are accustomed to a non- Ti-VCT engine. The cams would have to be checked with the cam phaser at the park position (no adv. or ret.) @.050.
Here is an independent evaluation of the stock Coyote cams.

Stock Mustang GT 5.0 Coyote Cam specs:

Intake Cam:
Advertised: 263
.050": 211
Lobe Lift: .235"
Centerline (Park / Max): 139 / 89

Exhaust Cam:
Advertised: 263
.050": 211
Lobe lift: .216
Centerline (Park / Max): 123 / 73

Valve events @ Park (no adv/ret) @.050":
IVO: 33.5 ATDC
IVC: 64.5 ABDC
EVO: 48.5 BBDC
EVC: 17.5 BTDC

Total overlap (Park) @.050: -51

Valve events @ Max @.050:
IVO: 16.5 BTDC
IVC: 14.5 ABDC
EVO: 1.5 ABDC
EVC: 32.5 ATDC

Total overlap (Max) @.050: 49
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...cam-specs.html

The lobe lift they describe is exactly what is in the2012 Ford Manual DVD,
(.235in, .216ex) with a stock rocker ratio of 2:1. = .470 / .432 .
Where Ford- NHRA got a total valve lift for a Stock 2012 coyote of .519 intake and exhaust is beyond me, despite being over factored at 380 vs the Cobra jet 302 at 350....
Almost all the engine data and specs for the 2011- 2012 V6 and coyote are in this DVD... Borrow it from your local Ford Tech..Just set the date of your computer to the date of the dvd....

ALMACK 03-11-2014 03:47 PM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
Thanks Steve !
That is very helpful.

Alan

Gary Smith 03-20-2014 11:33 AM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goinbroke2 (Post 410902)
X1000!! Whatever you can buy at the dealership should be available to race!
Those that have the $$$ to run a CJ won't be effected, they'll run a CJ, but those who can't afford a CJ program could run something else.
Love to see a twin turbo v6 f-150!

Maybe they're concerned of all the AWD and turbo/twin turbo combo's available now? Ecoboost 365hp awd Taurus outrunning a 69 camaro would make too many mad? LOL!

Put them all in the guide, I say!
Yep, I mentioned a similar issue on my fb page, a "family man" income cannot lay out $80k or more for the new CJ, COPO, or DP Challengers. The big 3 continue to follow the 80-20 sales rule, forgetting about the rest of us.

Tom P 04-11-2014 02:49 PM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
$80K ? Looking at some of the fancy rigs at the track i'm thinking the Bugatti Veyron should be in the guide so some racers can run their ordinary cars. :)

Dan Wilson 04-11-2014 08:22 PM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
Have not all the Cobrajets Copos and Dragpaks been sold?

Geerhead55 04-12-2014 12:56 AM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Wilson (Post 427483)
Have not all the Cobrajets Copos and Dragpaks been sold?
I'm thinking they have,,,, good point.
Danny Durham

ShadowLands 06-05-2014 12:21 AM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Carr (Post 411150)
I read one topic on here, and overheard another conversation at the track this year. People went to someone at Ford and asked to have some of the other Mustangs put into the Class Guide. The response was "We want CobraJets on the track, racing. Period".
Sounds like Kershaw.

Jesse Kershaw 06-05-2014 01:46 AM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShadowLands (Post 433965)
Sounds like Kershaw.
Not that I recall.

I submitted the GT from 2008 to present and V6 from 2011 to present. They have been in the guide for months.
I'm not aware of anyone racing them.

There are high value combinations in the Cobra Jet line up as well. The 2010 Cobra Jet 4.6l combo for example is very affordable for how fast it can go and it is easy to build as the vast majority of the parts are available from any Ford dealer.

There is always a dilemma when submitting new cars. Make it a value with low initial cost, and competitive, but it will also likely be in classes with older cars. Or make something that is still a value but considerably more expensive and runs against other late models almost exclusively. The vast majority of our customer cars are the latter option but we have always tried to get more price conscious combinations legal for racers to consider.

When I hear what racers pay for clean sheet metal on older cars, what it cost them for the latest trickiest head for their big block, or the difficulty they have in finding 20-30-40 year old parts, I am reminded that the late model cars can be a huge value. Like anything in racing you can spend as much as you want.

I am proud of the job we've done presenting cost effective options, pushing for new faster classes for the late models, posting more contingency than ever for all model years, and putting effort into growing the sport.

Joseph Teuton 06-05-2014 01:41 PM
Re: History Repeats itself
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse Kershaw (Post 433968)
Not that I recall.

I submitted the GT from 2008 to present and V6 from 2011 to present. They have been in the guide for months.
I'm not aware of anyone racing them.

There are high value combinations in the Cobra Jet line up as well. The 2010 Cobra Jet 4.6l combo for example is very affordable for how fast it can go and it is easy to build as the vast majority of the parts are available from any Ford dealer.

There is always a dilemma when submitting new cars. Make it a value with low initial cost, and competitive, but it will also likely be in classes with older cars. Or make something that is still a value but considerably more expensive and runs against other late models almost exclusively. The vast majority of our customer cars are the latter option but we have always tried to get more price conscious combinations legal for racers to consider.

When I hear what racers pay for clean sheet metal on older cars, what it cost them for the latest trickiest head for their big block, or the difficulty they have in finding 20-30-40 year old parts, I am reminded that the late model cars can be a huge value. Like anything in racing you can spend as much as you want.

I am proud of the job we've done presenting cost effective options, pushing for new faster classes for the late models, posting more contingency than ever for all model years, and putting effort into growing the sport.



X2!! Thanks Jessie for your support in drag racing!


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