Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan.
On the Ted Spehar Dart, Since he got the #1 car, I would garner to bet that it came right off the line to his Performance Shop/Gas Station on
Woodward Avenue. Probably at factory cost, not M.S.R.P.
Send the engine over to N & S Machine Shop, for the works.

On the Jon Raspach car. (Probably converted to 273/235HP)
Yes, Carter AFB 4-barrel + L/SA (automatic) = 1972
Just for D-Dart followers.
NHRA D-Dart Year Classifications:
1966 = D/S
1967 = C/S
1968 = F/S
1969 = G/S
1970 = G/S
1971 = G/S
1972 = H/S
Paul...

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

More info from 1966.
The D-Dart was shipped with the Hurst-shifter (in the white Hurst box in the trunk, w/white ball shift knob). The shifter was to be installed by the dealer, or car purchaser. Of course, many 20-year old Junior Mechanics
probably were given that job. One wonders, that when they opened the trunk, and saw a nice Hurst-shift unit, if it didn't fit nicely under their arm
and find its way out to there performance car, parked in the employee's
parking area???..And left the Dart with that beautiful Inland unit.
More mystery?
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Not sure if anyone is still following this thread. But I think I've got some final pieces for the D-Dart.
The car was shipped with the "Inland" shifter. Because it had a positive lock-out reverse mechanism. Safety issue. The "Hurst" shifter was supposed to placed in the trunk, and installed by the dealer. I am still searching for the "Hurst" part #. The shifter was boxed in a white "Hurst" box with linkage.
Not sure about the Dick Landy prep on the car. He spent 1966 out campaigning his 66' Funny Car Dart all over the country.
Finally, the original 273/235HP Commando intake manifolds had bore holes of 1 7/16" primary and 1 9/16" secondary, for the Carter #4119
500 CFM carburetor.
The 273/275HP D-Dart manifold had the center shut-out area removed,
to allow for free-breathing (hence; modified intake manifold). A carb-adapter plate was required, because the carb-flange on the Holley
700 CFM carburetor did not line up with the stock intake, and added clearance was required for the butterfly linkage. The modified intake still had the stock cast iron intake part #. The manifolds were modified at the
factory (custom prepped), before installation.
If you went to your local Dodge dealer and ordered a D-Dart conversion kit. You didn't get a modified intake, what you got was a .938 thick
carb-spacer/adapter-flange, with 1 11/16" primary and intake openings for the Holley carb.
Sounds like only (50) 4-barrel cast iron manifolds were custom prepped
by the factory. You could not order one over the parts counter.
Paul
A simple bolt-on unit.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,
I never heard of the Hurst shifter being in the trunk. Just the headers and I believe a specially built y-pipe. I'll check with the original owner of my first car and another D/Dart owner that I know.

As far as the intake goes. It was the one used on the w/C.A.P engines. The part number is 2536771. It has 4 --- 1 11/16" holes in it that match the holes in the 1/2" thick aluminum spacer/adapter. The center was not machined out. I'll have to look and see if I have a picture of my engine when I was taking it apart.

The heads on the D/Dart, P/N 2658920, were also from the w/C.A.P. engine option. These had 1.87" intake and 1.50" exhaust valves. The stock heads had 1.78 and 1.50 valves.

Where you able to scan the Performance Review (?) article for me? D/Dart vs. Mustang.

Thanks for the info on the D/Darts. I've been following the other LO23 thread that you've been participating in. Very informative --- to say the least.

Alan

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,

What was the " w/C.A.P. engine option."????

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

It stands for "with clean air package". I think it was for California.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
Good hunting there. Headers in trunk, just like the 67 R/O Plymouth and
67 W/O Dodge race packages. Always had a question about those
Doug Headers with the smaller collector sizes. NHRA limited collector sizes, they could not exceed the size of the largest diameter of the exhaust system (I think 2 3/4" was the opening in that large "Y" pipe) or a tad smaller. For stock classes, Super Stock could have openings up to
3 1/2".
The cast iron intakes with the 1 11/16" openings for primary and secondary were found on marine applications, as they all pretty much utilized Holley carburetors. Dig up Chrysler Marine info, you'll find a bunch of stuff. They were really leaps and bounds ahead of the small-block drag race guys at Chrysler. In 68', many of the 318 marine engines had the larger-bore cast iron intakes on the engines, and better camshafts, thanks to Camcraft, out of Easton, Maryland.
Paul, (Bigger valve size, that one I have got to look into. As for the
shifter, I think it was a 1966 safety issue. Requiring a positive lock-out on the reverse gear and/or indicator on all cars, Protecting the factory from liability claims.)

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
The D-Dart mysteries makes your head spin.
Kind of like a 16 year-old virgin on a carousel, at a prison rodeo.
The D-Dart carb spacer part #2863052 (.938 thickness).
The intake (free-flowing/modified intake) may have been an earlier version, similar to, Vanke's intake modifications on the 67' R/O and W/O Hemi Super/Stock manifolds.
One things for sure, all small-block 273 Mopar guys were cutting out the center shut-out areas on the intakes, for increased air-flow at top-end, back then. As well as putting on a 15/16"-thick heat-risers between the carb. and intake, to prevent vapor lock.
Paul (I'm not sure, but the Hurst # may start with a DP-.... ???

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Wonderful research, thanks for the in-depth info, keep it coming!

Thanks,

JimR

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,
You come up with some great quote.........................Lov'em

The spacer that came on the D/Darts was a 1/2" aluminum plate. It was an in-house, crudely machined part. Not sure what the over-the-counter part (2863052 - carb flange) dimensions are. But, the price was $18.95.

I popped open the throttle plates on "The Pollitician" a little while ago. It has the 4 holes in the intake. I'm sure if it ment picking up a few ponies, Ted Spehar or Al Adam would have cut out the center.

Sent out a couple of emails looking for info on the Hurst shifter. In the SS&DI article on "The Pollitician", there's a shot of the interior with a thin, round handled Hurst shifter. It might be the one that your talking about. It's also seen on the D/Dart campaigned by Coronet Dodge.
Alan

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
On the Hurst shifter. Still tracking info. Stuck on part #3916790, But that comes up for a 66'-69' B-Body. I wonder if that was also used for the
D-Dart. It came through with a long-handle shifter (16", I think). Now the
65' Darts (273/235HP Commando's) came through with the Hurst shifter
as standard equipment. Wondering, if they utilized that shifter with the
D-Dart?? As I said earlier, the Inland shifter (for 66', 67' and early 68')
Mopars had to be installed in the cars for safety reasons (positive
reverse lock-out mechanism). After they got to the dealers, than the options were installed (ie; Doug Headers).
As for the intake, I'm wondering if there were (2) different versions. The
66' 273 marine engines and early "LA" 318 marine engines had a modified intake with the center shut-out area removed. I know that for a fact, because at my fathers engine shop we had several 273/318 marine engines come in with factory installed Holley carbs on the intake, not sure of cfm size, maybe 600's or 650's. The adapters were aluminum, and had 4-tapered holes (funnel-type), mounted on the open-throat intake.
paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Thanks, Alan.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

That is one ugly car !

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

d 1 hitter,
As a Mopar fan, I have to agree. Not the prettiest thing to look at it.
But I did witness a 66' 273/235 HP 4-speed (K/S in 1970) put away a
beautiful blue 65' Corvette coupe 327/250 HP all summer long at Dover Drag Strip. Must have been frustrating for the Vette owner to look at that rear-end all summer long. Now I know how Bill Clinton feels;)
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Was going to respond to the comment but decided not ot waste my time.

Paul,
Sent you a PM. Got a photo of the Porach Dodge 2 days after they rec'd it. I think you'll like it.
Alan

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
I'll open my e-mail, and forward you info.
Have to check into more stuff, which I will post. Have to follow up on some tips. In 1966, you could purchase a 273/235HP Commando
Barracuda/Dart, with a 4-speed (with or with-out) the console. Of course, with the infamous "Inland" shifter. If you wanted a dealer installed option
"Hurst" shifter, you could order that from the dealer. If it had the console, the dealer would remove the console, and install the "Hurst" shifter.
The console (not usable with the shifter) was either given back to the owner, or made it's way back to the parts department (back shelf!!)
That is the part #, I'm trying to research.
It was just like the rear-end gears. Standard was 3.23, but you could order 3.55's or 3.91's from the factory. Or, have dealer installed
4.10's or 4.33's. Not sure if the 4.56's were available for dealer installation on the basic 235HP Commando's.
Back to the Corvette;. I still wonder, if late Sunday's, the owner while washing the crossed of shoe-polished "T" (indicating trophy run) on his Corvette, explained to his friends that he just got his doors blown-off
by that tan-colored, black steel-wheeled Dodge Dart "Granny-Car",
which now has the Trophy in the passenger seat, being held by the
Blonde, that used to be his girlfriend. "Second Place is First Loser".
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I have been reading this thread with great interest on and off over the last few month's and thought that I may share some information that may be relevant.
Many years ago I owned a total of seven 273 powered early A body cars.
5 Barracudas, 1 Valient Signet, and 1 Dart GT.
Those of you that know me well and know where I worked in the early 70's might understand why a died in the wool FoMoCo guy may have had 7 of these little Mopars.

1 64 Barracuda 273 2V 180 HP 4 speed
2 65 Barracuda Formula S 273 235 4 speed
1 66 Barracuda Formula S 273 235 automatic
1 66 Barracuda Formula S 273 235 4 speed
1 66 Valient Signet 2 door hdt 273 235 4 speed
1 65 Dart GT 2 door hdt 273 235 4 speed

Everyone was a trade in on a new or used car and purchased wholesale by me from the used car manager. At the time they were basically worthless in the normal used car market place.
At one time or another I had the oppertunity to work on dozens of early A body cars at the dealership and I recall very well what equipment they came with. Especially since I wound up buying so many to screw around with, fix up, and eventually re-sell.

The 64 Barracuda had a 7.25 Spicer rear end (3.23 posi), 9 inch brakes with 5 on 4 inch bolt pattern, and a factory Hurst shifter.
Shifter was skinny round stock with a flat that had Hurst stamped in it.
64 car was the only one with 13 inch wheels. Widest 13 inch tire I could find was a D-70-13.
64 2V car also had a 9 inch clutch which lasted about ten holeshots.
All the 65 cars had the same factory installed Hurst shifters, 10 inch brakes with 5 on 4 inch pattern hubs, and 7.25 Spicer rear ends.
66 cars also all had 7.25 rear ends and ten inch brakes.
The 66 automatic Barracuda had optional Budd front disc brakes. Very rare as I recall.
Both the 4 speed 66 Barracuda and Valient had Inland shifters with reverse lock out.
I don't know about the "D" dart, but I have never seen a 8.75 in any "A" body prior to 1967 and back then I was under litterally hundreds of them.
Every one that I owned came with a 3.23 posi and I installed a Mopar 3.91 gear in all of them.
My cost was about $46 for the ring and pinion as I recall.
All the 65-66 cars had 14 inch wheels.
All of the 4V cars had the same large diameter single exhaust with one Hemi style muffler and a square tip resonator. I converted most to duals and used two of the resonators.
Looked very cool at the time.
All the 4V cars had black crinkle finish valve covers.
All the 4V stick cars had dual point distributors and the automatic had a single point.
All the 4V cars had worthless factory tachs (typical of Mopar)
The Dart GT and Valient had 273 FOUR BARREL emblems on the fenders.
Barracudas only had Formula S emblems and some had a single triple racing stripe down the center of the car.
Also the Plymouths all had the same simulated mag stylish wheel covers with long chrome lug nuts that protruded through holes in the wheel covers. Both 13 and 14 inch versions.
Dart had some sort of spinner full wheel cover with a Dodge tri bar emblem as I recall.
With 3.91 gears, a good chassis dyno tune, valve adjustment, wider than stock tires, 2 inch open lake pipes (dumps), air cleaner removed the sticks could run high to mid 14's on a good day.
Automatic low 15's.
The Valient was probably the most rare and coolest of the bunch. It was also the quickest and made the most money street racing.
2V car could not get out of the 17's and that was with a gear.
I bought all these cars very cheap, did a little work on them, had some fun at US 30, then sold them all when I was through for a nice profit.
On a final note, back in the parts dept. on a shelf for the longest time was a large box that had a Chrysler part number on it but was hand marked "D/S" Dart.
The parts manager had tried to sell it to me cheap several times but I always declined as I wasn't about to invest any of my Mustang race car money into one of these Mopars.
I was told that it came from Chrysler several years prior for one of the dealer team cars, but it had been sold before the kit came in. I can only assume that it they received a D Dart but never had any interest in campaining it.

What was in it you all are asking youselves?

A aluminum intake with 2 AFB's, air cleaners and linkage.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alex,
Only an A-body masochist like myself and a few others could understand what you just said. Don't forget those pain-in-the-butt L.H. and R.H. thread patterns. Also, that vacuum-operated Performance Indicator in the center of the dashboard. Remember that little tube that ran through
the firewall, and into the runner on the intake manifold, directly behind the carburetor. As for the 8 3/4's. Your correct, not available for 65', but they were in 66'. Check out the D-Dart web site. You can see the rear-end housing for Ted Spehar's "Politician". Also, have more web.sites with
66' cars with 8 3/4's. Not to throw you a curve, but in late 65', New York
City ordered several black 4-door sedan V-200 Valiants, with 273/235HP Commando engines, 4-speed transmissions with the
3.09 first-gear (Granny-gear), and 3.55 posi-rears. They were utilized
by the Taxi commission, and city transport cars, for low and mid-level
city commissioners. If you want, i can lead to one on the internet. it will blow your mind.:eek:
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alex D. said, "Those of you that know me well and know where I worked in the early 70's might understand why a died in the wool FoMoCo guy may have had 7 of these little Mopars."

No; what puzzles ME is that you had ANY interest in Ford products, with all those cool MoPars available to you...


You were living my dream life.... :)

Takes all kinds, I guess... LOL!

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

In late '65 and '66 Chrysler was pushing racers to spread out to other classes and one of the classes was modified production and FX. Koffel was paid to put a 273 in his A990 car and given the two four barrel manifold and carbs in order to run C/FX. The car ran well.

JimR

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul,

Buddy of mine has one of those marine intakes with the 1 11/16" bores at the last swap meet we wereselling at. I almost fell over myself when I saw the intake unloaded and that he was selling it. First thing that caught my eye was those large bores and I thought I had scored. Disappointed when I checked the part number.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
Be careful on some of those Marine intakes. Check the carb-mounting angle first. Some where angled downward (at idle), to allow for the carb to reach a level angle, when the boat was throttling up. Does not work well on the street. ,,,,Jim R, Did not know that on the C/FX cars. See what you learn here. But back in 65' and early 66', it was difficult to get performance parts for the 273...
I'm not even sure if Hooker made headers for them. Everyone was using
Doug Headers,,,,,Alex, that 9 1/4" clutch unit, made by Auburn (I think),
wasn't that a lovely clutch-package.
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

You mean that they were machined at an angle?

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan,
Yes, from the factory. Using a straight line as a plane, the carb-mounting area was machined down (at the front) approximately 25 degrees. When the boat accelarated, the carb would be at a near level angle. Unfortunately, some guys tried to use these manifolds on the street. Well at idle, the front intake runner tubes would load-up. If you didn't keep the revs up, it fouled-up the front cylinders. Also, imagine driving with one of those things, and then hitting the brakes. Mucho gasoline rushing forward. Thats why they said, Marine Applications Only. Some of the early 66' manifolds (that were bored to 1 11/16" or had the center shut-out removed) did not have the carb-mounting area angle-milled. These
could be utilized for the street, and D-Dart applications. Of course, I have no idea of the part#. Somehwere in the basement of my fathers old shop in Peekskill, NY there probably sits one, from Viking Boatyard:eek:
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Jeeze, it doesn't take a degree in mechanical engineering to devise a wedge-shaped adapter to go between the manifold and carb base plate... to correct the bad angle.

As sharp as some of these guys are, I can't believe they didn't just whip out an angle-milled adapter plate to cure that problem.

What am I missing here? You said it was for street cars; no tech interference.... and, it could be of aluminum, and not very thick at all (no hood clearance issues.)

Can't imagine anybody smart enough to get their hands on one of those cars, that couldn't figure THAT out....

What am I missing?????????

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Bill,
Yes, any decent machinist with a Bridgeport "J" head milling machine could fabricate an angled-carb-adapter. But,,,back in late 66', 67'/68'/69'
just plain old 273 street cars and 318 2-barrel owners grabbed those
"Marine Application" manifolds because they had the Holley 650cfm
already mounted on them. It probably looked nice, an easy bolt-on.
Until, they found out that at idle the carb would load-up. Most inexperienced guys thought the carb was messed up, and required a re-build or adjustment. Any experienced 273 owner could tell the difference, just by looking at the intake. I think just seeing a Holley carb mounted on that intake made them excited. The early 66' marine intakes are the ones, center shut-out area removed and level mounting base. Later in 66', the angle carb-mount came into play for the marine applications.
Simply put, anyone with a little knowledge would simply take a stock
273 4-barrel intake and cut-out the center shut-out area, polish the edges, and bolt-on a carb-adapter or heat-riser. Good for another
5 Horsepower at 6000rpm.
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alan & bill,
I'll try to post some old 1966 drag photo's and info on the D/Stock class.
wt. break= 10.60 - 11.29....
1966 Dodge Dart 273/275 (D-Dart)
1966 Ford Mustang 289/271 (K-Code)
1965 Mercury Comet 289/271 (K-Code)
1966 Mercury Comet 289/271 (K-Code)
1966 Mercury Cyclone GT convertible 390/335
1966 Chevrolet Biscayne 396/325
1966 Chevrolet Malibu 327/275
1966 Ford Fairlane GT convertible 390/335
1961 Corvette 283/270 dual-quad (#CU-code engine)
1962 Dodge and Plymouth 361/305
Found most class winners were running 13.80's. The D/S record for the
early part of 66' was 13.19, then 13.09, then 12.96, then the Musser
Brothers out of Pennsylvania trashed it with a 12.78 in August 66, with
their 61' Corvette.
PC

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Thanks, Paul; I'm sure you're right...

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Paul, that little clutch assembly was the most worthless POS ever placed behind any V-8.
Leave it to Mopar.
I don't doubt you on some obscure 8.75 in prior 67 A bodies, but I can tell you that I have never seen one. First A body I ever laid eyes on with a 8.75 was a 67 Dart GT 383 4 speed that a friend had bought new. I helped him change the third member using two bumper jacks circa 1969. Boy was I a dumb kid.
Mopar used right and left wheel stud threads through 1969. 1970 they went to all right hand.
Also all A bodies had 7/16 studs like a chebbie through 1969.

Bill, I had to work on them all day long, so I had no desire to work on them in my "fun" time too. Besides, they were just to unreliable.
My employer at the time even offered me a brand new 340 Demon to race at their expense and I declined.

Paul, you are incorrect on the 66 Comet 289/271 Hipo. That engine combo was only available in Mustangs after 1965. Nothing else.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Why didn't you take that offer?

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Alex explained that in his post.........they were "unreliable" :-)

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

My '72 Dart had left hand studs on it.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

All drum brake A-bodies had 7/16" studs with 4" bolt circle, and disc brake cars until '73.

Left hand threads on driver's side only until '71.

Yeah, Mopar did some weird stuff for sure.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Mercury offered the 271hp motor in the Comet caliente in 1965, it turned out to be a one year only offer. A friend of mine bought one and for a mere $236.00 got a full tri-power set up across the counter. 1966 brought the 390ci cars and the 271hp was dropped.

JimR

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

The 289-271 was also available in the Comet in 1964. Inspired the East African Ralley participation by FoMoCo that year.

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

D-Dart Contributors,
I knew I could stir up the pot a little more. Very good pick-up on the
1966 Comet (Jim R). But, (McCormack Mercury) home of the semi-famous 'Billy Lagana', a 65' Comet A/FX racer, out of Mt. Kisco, New York had one. Probably not a production line car. Not sure if it was a factory installed special order, or dealer installed option. But it was a 289/271HP car. It was running in C/S in 67' (when classes were bumped up one notch). Same thing, 13.80's @100 MPH.....
Alex, Those "Auburn'' clutches. Were like a box of 'Dunkin Donuts'. Good for a dozen only. (12 holeshots only). How would you like to find an "Inland Shifter' and an 'Auburn' clutch package under the Christmas Tree. Mother Mopar did make some bad mistakes....
Paul

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

I need to know (just for my own satisfaction) what kind of shifter was OEM on a 1971 Demon 340 car.

I purchased the complete engine and drivetrain (340, aluminum bell housing, OEM flywheel, clutch, cast iron 4-speed with a 2.39 or 2.49 1st gear (I can't remember which, but it was not a 2.66, to my surprise, ) driveshaft and an 8.75," 3.91 Sure Grip with 13,000 miles on it (in early 1972) out of a wrecked car (rolled), with the shifter still attached to the transmission.... for $500 1972 dollars (that would be $2,560.00, today.)

Bolted it ALL (including the driveshaft, without modification; go figure.... 2"-different wheelbase, but the driveshaft fit, perfectly) into a '64 Valiant V-200, 2 door sedan.

After putting a 3,000-pound Hayes pressure plate (with the centrifugal weights removed.) I raced that car for years, and never missed a gear... and I never EVER lifted, to shift.

I am really ignorant about shifters, and afrer hearing all the verbiage about Inland shifters, I would love to know what I had. I could power-shift that car at 6-grand, all day long; no problem... like a VW Beetle!


The shifter was the original one, and I'd like to know which one it was; Inland, or Hurst.

All I remember about the way it looked was that it had a curve in the shifter to accommodate a bench seat, and, it had a white plastic ball on top, with the shift pattern etched into it..

Anybody know what shifter I had???? I don't remember seeing the word, "Hurst" on the shift lever; in fact, I think it was round, not flat.

Any information will be appreciated!

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Bill,
It have to have been a Hurst shifter. If it was an Inland shifter, chances are that you would have ripped the handle off of the shifter mechanism while power shifting. It would have landed in the back seat. I think they only used it in 1966 on both the A and B-Bodies.
Alan

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Inland used through 68. 69 they changed back to Hurst

Re: '66 Dodge D-Dart at Mecum auction
 

Sometime in the middle of 65 Ma Mopar decideed that they didn't want to keep replacing 7.25 rears in 4 speed cars under warrenty so they switched to the 8.75. NHRA finally picked this fact up and authorized the use of that rear in stock. I gave a copy to ddartdude. The letter was copied from an original and given to me by a long time stock driver.