Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I thought we were talking about using production windsor in place of Cleveland,sorry.

Mike taylor 3601

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The Track Boss 351C block that is approved for NHRA Stock/SS is 9.2 deck 2.75 mains, splayed caps and 1 piece rear seal , Siamese bores and updated priority main oiling

They also will be available with optional 302 mains, all bulkheads on all blocks are solid (XE design) all blocks have a provision (material added) for a left hand GM starter (drivers side) all blocks have enough material to bore the cam tunnel to 60mm and, as of now the patterns will be updated for offset or non standard lifter bore locations.

Non standard deck heights will be added at a later date.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...b6&oe=569A897B

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphoto...8a&oe=56985BC8

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

That photo qualifies as Ford Porn...

EDIT: Info on the creation of this block:
http://351c.net/board/index.php?/top...eveland-block/
The links are interesting.

The index link:
http://351c.net/board/index.php?/forum/126-new-topics/

Dale

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

OK, I gotta ask...as far as I know the Cleveland stopped production in 74 and after that it was the 351 modified which is WAY taller than a C and has longer rods etc.(same block as a 400) I looked up a 77 351M in the guide and as replacement rods it has 351C rod, 5.78" made by crower??
Now, look up 77 400 and it shows rod length as 6.58". The 351M and 400 both have 6.58" rods and the 351C has 5.78" rods. So, either the guide is messed up or 351C have been produced from 70-82 but I've never seen a 75-82 351C for some reason??

Who has ever seen a short deck height 351C, the same as a 70-74 351C in anything newer than a 75 car??

EDIT: Oh, and firesale, you're correct on the poor oiling system, only cure was to block off the passages to the cam and oil it externally from the sending unit "T" down to the cam from up top. Took the bottom end out of countless amount of clevelands until another ford guy showed me the trick.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

For once, the guide is correct on the rod lengths. The 351M had a de-stroked crank and pistons with a taller compression height to bring the cid down to 351. It was built until 1982 and was Ford's last pushrod production engine.

According to the guide the 1970 BOSS 302 had 5.090 rods, Same as the regular 302. It's not perfect.

Disclaimer: I'm no expert, just a good researcher.

This is Bill's build thread. I'm going to leave it to him as the owner. I'm talking too much...

Dale

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I noticed that several years but it is wrong! All Boss 302 used the 5.15 rod which is actually the 289hp Rod the 5.090 was used in all 302 production engines.
V

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

That's very neat Bill. should be a strong piece
Scott

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

In stock you are not allowed external oiling lines, so on the old blocks you have to sleeve the lifter bores and feed the lifters with an .050 to .060 hole. (see post #9 of this thread)

The new block has addressed this with priority main oiling

Guys, you can add, ask or comment on anything you want..no worries I am here to help:D

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Actually my point is that the guide is wrong. The 351C has a 5.78 rod length, the 351M and 400 both have 6.58" rods.
Deck height on a 351C is 9.206, the 351M and 400 are 10.297"
To put it bluntly, you cannot use 351C rods in a 351M.
Pull the crank and pistons out of a 400 and put in 351M crank and pistons and you now have a 351M, everything is the same except crank and pistons.

So, why has this never been picked up? I'll assume it's because nobody has ran a 351M in anything. Although I do remember a mid 70's green wagon but I'm sure it was running a 400. (jolly green giant maybe?) Regardless there's no replacement rod for the 400 (or 351M)

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

There is also a 10.300 block on the drawing board. Tim builds a lot of 400 based combos (not in HHRA) and that is his pet project, ultimately the tall deck will be added

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

from Tim.....

January 5th I drive to the foundry to inspect the changes to the Track Boss Cleveland block. If everything looks OK, they can pour 2 samples for us immediately.

We probably won't know the exact price until we have run a few blocks. Our estimate is cast iron blocks will be in the $3250-$3750, Our aluminum blocks will be in the $4900-$5900 range.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I wouldn't really trust the NHRA Blueprints on fine details of engine building.

As noted, the only rod length for the 1970 302 listed is 5.090 when everyone in the Ford community knows the BOSS 302 ran 5.155 rods.

They list it in 69 but not 70. You also can't race a 68 GT350 with the good 4bbl legally because that car is nowhere in the Stock Car Classification Guide. Just the GT500. As if no one ever took a GT350 to the strip in the 60s...

You are correct with the rod lengths for the 351. NHRA lists the 70 351c with 5.780 rod length. For 1975, the 351m has 6.580 rods listed and there is a 351w in that year with 5.959 rods.

If I were to build a 351 to move up in GT, I would be very careful with the details.

Dale

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The rearend, or bringing up the rear..LOL

I am taking a hard long look at housing ends, and really like the Strange H1149 and P1018 axle kit although its overkill for a stock HP level.

But, I do like the idea of a mis-alignment bearing as these cars use the longest housing so the chance of bending/flexing ect is more

and of course if I am going to blow that kind of cash might as well get the bearings/gear micro blued as well also.

I have selected lamb brakes for the front, but not decided on rear yet, the axle kit does have a MW brake option

Suggestions?

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I watched more than a few "stock HP" cars drop rear ends and axles at the track before I got off my butt to build my 68 coupe, so I put $3100 in Strange hardware back there. And I drive it to the track at the time being. It has a Detroit locker.

Just Do It.

Dale

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

For the rear, you have several options such as Strange, Lamb or a newcomer in the field, TBM (The Brake Man).

http://www.tbmbrakes.com/

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The 351C Track Boss block part TB9-2C11B has been listed in the approved products list as of 1-5-2016 for 1970-74 Cleveland applications

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

....

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I will be using the high misalignment bearing system, either Strange or MW EV4.1 system....I have not made up my mind yet. but, with a 60+ long flange to flange I see the benefits of it

Lamb brakes at all 4 corners

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The correct part number for the 351C block has been updated in the accepted products list available from Tim Meyer inc

There is also a new diamond piston available for the Boss 351/330hp that has been approved also it will be on the list soon as I have a part number

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Debating...anotherwords, I can't make up my mind on weather or not to bump this up to a SS combo. I am at the point now where it is cheaper to backhalf instead of restore the 45 year old rear section to stock specs. The rear end is cheaper, the entire driveline for that matter will cost me less than top of the line parts, that will work, look right and pass tech in "stock"

I really do want it to be a stocker though

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

My first rodeo.... this was in the late 1970's, second pic is same car updated in the 1980's....I am thinking of going old school with Centerlines or Supertricks on this build, brings back memories. What you all think?
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...psn0l5m8t6.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps7vq1jcxn.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Bill Centerlines would look real nice on your car.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

If you don't mind back-halving the car, it looks to me like the Boss 351 engine factors are a lot better for SS than Stock. Actually I think if I were trying this in stock I would be hammering NHRA to reduce that 355HP stock rating. There is absolutely no justification for a 50HP hit to the Boss engine as compared to the 285/305 variant in stock. No one has run the Boss engine in stock from what I can tell, while the 285 has been run quite a bit and has had AHFS hits and still only factors to 305. A point of compression and a little bigger cam surely doesn't justify a 50HP difference in otherwise identical engines.

In an earlier post you complained about having to put a lousy stock intake on your supernatural heads. SS would take care of that issue. The big ports in the heads has always argued for high RPMs, and a nice roller cam would help with that too, all with a more favorable 330HP rating (still too high IMHO, but a hell of a lot better than 355HP in stock).

The Boss engine is AHFS factored to 340 in a SS/GT too, a sure sign that there is something more there for it in regular SS at 330.

I'll bet Jim Evanuik could give you a lot of guidance on a SS variant.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

We always wanted to try the big hp cleavland but we had problems with the hp we made much less the extra with the 2+ points of compression and different combustion chamber. We ran the 275/315 hp 72 open chamber flat top combination and it would make 650 with all real cleavland stuff except pistons and valve train in 1994 and turn 8800 most of the time. lol . With the aluminum heads, after market block and other new rules it would be a 800 hp combo at 93-9400 rpm + I bet.. It would be fun to build another one..

Scott

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Rob Youngblood ran the 71 Boss combo (in D/S) a while ago before he jumped ship to the Corvette.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I talked to Rob about that engine combo some time ago when I was inquiring about a clutch...just comparing his setup to mine:D

of course the rules have changed alot since then

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Still kicking this around...I thought "stock" was supposed to be entry level:confused: if you can read my chicken scratch installing "new" stock front end components is quite a bit more money than converting to GT or MS specs.:eek:

my 98 sn95 with stock front end, core support, ect still all there Strange Gt struts

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...psbamgqdtx.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...psp85mnk0n.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Glad you talked to Rob. I talked to him , I think, in the late 80"s when he was still racing that car & one of the divisional's was still @ our home track. Still have the business card he gave me.Yeah alot has changed, he ran that car Hard @ least from my view.

My Cougar wasn't offered with the boss combo, but if I win the lottery :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: I'm eyeing the 285 combo.

For wheels I really like the satin Centerlines.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I have decided on the Sanders Eng. wheels.

http://www.sanderengineering.com/cat...s/750front.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

So Bill i have a question about your front suspension is that the picture of the stocker boss suspension that you are planning on running in stock.Just curious????

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

If you read the posting, is the suspension from Bill's other Mustang; a 1998 SN95.

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

I have been debating with myself if I wanted to bump this project up a few classes, as of now it still remaines a "stock" eliminator.

With that being said it will have a stock 71 mustang front suspension which consits of upper and lower control arms with the spring and shock exactly as produced by ford for the 71 model year

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

It will stay as a stocker...getting all the new metal to fit is a royal pain in the....

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps73jyjr8r.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...psiwy45zmm.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...pszu7ygywh.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...pscpsukszf.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Just when you think you know everything about everything, something always comes along to prove you wrong.....the first thing to do with any "restoration" is write down all the measurements before taking it all apart...I did not do that :mad:

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

Good excuse to droop the nose and have to move the fenders a little closer together. ;) ---Trevor

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

great point...lol

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

The Diamond Boss pistons 80071 have been added to the accepted products list but they have them listed in flat top section

Diamond 80026 has been added also. those are flattops and the 071's are pop ups

Going to have to get NHRA to correct the listing as they had to with the part number of the block

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...psdecxipx8.jpg

http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...psphhobsnn.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

What a long strange trip this has been....as I mentioned earlier I did not like the fitup between the firewall and offshore front end sheetmetal. also, I could not blast the inside of the door pillars, and the torque boxes that the frame/cage attached too showed to much "rot" in them so........new firewall, cowl/kick panels, inner rocker panels and new torque boxes fabbed up. (the inner rocker is now .100 thick as opposed to the factory .040, and the firewall is really a bargain as it has the upper torque box/plate already attached)
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps3h7cbppb.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...pszdc48uwb.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...psgppe6hwj.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...pssjwengvl.jpg
http://i436.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6dk3ygpp.jpg

Re: Boss Mustang stocker
 

By the time I repaired the damage to the bottom of the original firewall, filled all the holes, got the other parts to fit...I was hours and dollars ahead with the new piece