Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Almost net 100 lbs. removed just from under the carpet, and I still have probably another 20 lbs. alone up both sides on the firewall, that I can remove another time (I flat got super cramped and tired of scraping up the firewall under the dash, pedals, etc., so left the rest above the carpet line.
My math (on paper at least), at this point said w/ the empty 14 lb. weight box/torque strap combo, still inside the engine bay (So I can adjust wt. later), that I was going to scale about 20 lbs above the DF/S min. wt.. Time to install the carpet, shifter mount and new shifter, and make some adjustments to the console to slide over it and remount in the future (if going back to EF/S later I will need that weight), just thinking ahead as dropping the weight also requires it to run .95 seconds faster just to make the DF/S Index, and with the stock ECM/PM at elevation would still be a miracle 345 lbs. lighter (I don't care how far under it can run at Pomona (or any near sea level track), I am stuck w/ the lousy elevation and ever worsening DA (corrected not enough at even +3/10ths), of Las Vegas being my home track, Phoenix next closest, then Pomona, and Bakersfield, Sonoma, etc....On to the shifter install, replace seats and the rest of the interior trim.Attachment 69848 Attachment 69849 Attachment 69850 Attachment 69851 Attachment 69852 Attachment 69853 |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Attachment 69855 Attachment 69856 Attachment 69857 Attachment 69858 Attachment 69859 Attachment 69860 I dropped out 2 dozen engine bay and pics here so as not to bore those reading the thread, as it took 2 bracket installs to get it just the right angle so it was really smooth shifting, and adjusted perfectly. Attachment 69861 Attachment 69862 |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Attachment 69864 Attachment 69865 Attachment 69866 Attachment 69867 Attachment 69868 Attachment 69869 Attachment 69870 Next up the Console fabrication adjustments, will it fit over the top, yes, but needed the Auto Window switch plate completely shortened & reworked. And it was a battle (but I later got it to fit over the new shifter base and mount, more on that after DF/S testing). |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Attachment 69883 Not pics of the brake hoses replacements I did to my race car, but I replaced all the front end parts on a neighbors Toyota van (Upper and Lower Control Arms, Ball Joints, Inner and outer tie rods, etc.), just as soon as that job was out of the garage and headed for the alignment shop that required his replacements before he would/could align it...I pulled back in my car and since I already had the tools and materials out I did my new brake hoses, flushed and bled them again. But, I was so tired at that point I forgot to take pics of The Daytona work. Lol.
Attachment 69884 Attachment 69885 Attachment 69886 Attachment 69887 Attachment 69888 Attachment 69889 Attachment 69890 Attachment 69891 Ok, now the Stocker is in DF/S trim, I calculate d it was within 20 lbs of min wt. for the class w/ me and my helmet in the driver's seat, And readied the car for Div.7 1-2 Double, arranged transport and storage in Chandler , and to and from Phoenix, then Las Vegas (including Storage about 8 miles from the Strip at Las Vegas Speedway (right off the Strip), started working on the Race season Schedule....Then the wheels came off and I ended up with Covid and in the hospital. I missed the first 2 Div. races of the season along w/ the testing at Las Vegas through the Bracket races I had also planned to test the DF/S weight, also missed Crewing for Scott McClay at same events at Phoenix, but lived through the illness to race again. Next up a S/SS Combo race and some good test dates earlier in March to ready for it once healthy again, We secured the Storage in Las Vegas at the end of January, and moved the car to Las Vegas early March, right after I recovered. Better a late start to the season than a never start! Las Vegas, Summit Bracket race #6 Mar. 9,2024 was the first chance I had in 2024 to test the car in DF/S trim. And did something really stupid with the slicks (live and learn, even late in life), because I was tired of them leaking down slightly at night. It involved Slime, and that just unbalanced the tires and rims so bad I removed them immediately after 1 single pass, had my wife take them to a tire shop and they would not touch them, ended up taking them home, asking Big O Tire on Monday to break the beads for me, took them home and flushed them both out with water till clear, took them back to Big O Tire (Thanks guys!), I then had them fully dismounted, Dried off inside, coated w/ dawn dish detergent air dried, had the beads of the rims cleaned well, and remounted and balanced perfectly fixing the issue properly. In the meantime I made passes on the Street tires on that Saturday, and a test day on Sunday at Las Vegas for an import race (I was able to get a dozen hot lap test passes), in on Sunday (making small minute changes, to ignition timing (among other things, fan on/ fan off, just a bunch of do these things make it faster changes...nope on all but 1 of them), both up and down, etc. and it allowed me to test a few theories, most of which were immediately reversed, since none were for the better (the car is pretty solid as is, but I noticed it had developed a minor rear cam seal leak after the first 6 hot lapped passes, just a tiny leak, and only when seriously hot lapped, but a leak all the same. I cleaned it between passes and made sure I replaced that seal before the combo race in a week. Though track prep was good for the first 2 passes Sunday morning, there were a crapload of very fast FWD Turbo or otherwise boosted nitrous FWD cars that instantly wore all of the rubber and glue off the track in both lanes in only the FWD tire stage areas, and there just were not a lot of Rear wheel drive cars running at that Import Event to lay down rubber on the bare patches, so for the first time in forever it was hit and miss on spinning on my street tires, hook 1 time, spin the next...But, I cannot complain, I only paid 35 bucks for an all day test session! (Scales were of course not open, and will not be until the 4 Wides Nat. and the LODRS Double at Vegas). |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Next race date up was at Las Vegas, the MATSLV S/SS Combo (Put on by Phil Mandella), Fri. Sat, Sun. Mar 14-17, 2024 and I entered, it rained a lot, we had wind, usual Spring weather, but a lot wetter than normal, and finally got Qualifying and the race in after a lot of track drying and on track incidents, wrecks, popped chutes behind the starting line, etc (not those competing in the combo), but all the other classes they were running. It was a fantastic time, fun in all respects, I will return to it again next March, I just was flat worn out by the time we finally got to stage up for first round Saturday evening after an extra hour and a half due to a big wreck cleanup, and a huge temp drop outside, and I was aced out at the tree By a Kennedy Brother in a very fast hard charging Bright Yellow Mustang Fastback. And there was still time to call for my ride to storage, get the car put back in towing trim, loaded up, move it across to the spectator parking area, get a lift, get the car safely tucked into storage, as my wife was already on the way, and grab a good meal before she arrived, get home late Saturday night and sleep in my own bed. Sadly I missed the rest of the rounds. I did read about them though, Thanks to all I had fun, but...
Through all the changes to get that car down close to DF/S weight, it just is not ready to go that direction (yet), as I could not even get it to run in the high 16's in the Altitude of Las Vegas reliably. And it needs to reliably run at least a 16.85 Corrected Index. I did in testing hit close to it twice (both high 16's), but not that weekend, I was more like 17.09-17.11 (in Drive), reliably where I short shift at 5,200-6,200, or 5,400 -6,400....Future changes will allow me to go there (Converter loosened, higher stalling leave, Manual brake conversion, back to the higher lift cam, and The planned tap/tap/laptop tuning of an aftermarket EFI ECU system upgrade that I can actual lean out finally in the rotten Las Vegas Air conditions. All those are still planned changes (some sooner than others), but, I put it immediately back into EF/S weight Trim before the April 4 Wides, and the LODRS Double (plus 2024 Div. 7 Class Racing), that I registered for (also was set to crew at all 3 of those races for Scott McClay in his Comp Elim. Entry)....More on that in the next hr. or so!Attachment 69892At the MATSLV S/SS Combo Race. |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
Back to that month of December 2023, I wasn't just staring at the car, I was doing a deep dive into all the available data from the very first trip to a drag strip with the car, all the trials and tribulations of attempting to turn the slowest budget class car in the world when it fit in FF/SA, but I ran it in GF/SA, into at least a great consistent slow bracket car (all the troubles it started having after my first half dozen wins in the Street Bracket, and those issues just about started when I started messing with the car to make it faster to start competitive Stock Eliminator racing it in early 1994, then things progressively just got worse and worse in 1995, 96, and 97. Leading me to park the car until I could get a real hold of and resolve the issues.
That part has been resolved. Since I started bracket racing in 1975, I drove a lot of slower cars, street was the starting point, driven some that were very consistent though slow, and some that were not. Some were easy to win with, and some never garnered a win no matter how hard I tried...like my very first 4 speed race car. That was a long 8 month drought, I could not sell that 62 Dart fast enough. Then, I purchased a 63 Polara, because a friend needed cash, and lucked out into the best (wininningest), race car I ever owned, it was built or prepped by Peter Berkuta (sold it to Richard Gabaldon, the first time Pete drove it to tempt Richard into buying it, Pete won with the car that night Heavy Bracket 3, a week later Richard won the same with it first time he raced it, and a few months later (I had expressed an interest in buying it), he called, asked if I had 3 grand cash, I did, went to the bank on the way to Terminal Island - Big Willy's LA Harbor outlaw track, met me there, and sold me the car, and in a couple of hrs. I won with the car, then a week later after a 3 hr. track rental at O.C.I.R in Irvine, CA I won a big Popular Hotrodding Magazine race with that car, and a lot of wins followed that 1, more than any racer deserved, as it was one of those fill drive it to the track, fill it up, runi it, dial down a hun and run dead on w/ a zero kind of Bracket cars. Just drive it the same, and it was a winner, but it was an 11 flat Mopar, running 12 flat, as it hade no rollbar or cage, and I loved the 5 amber 5/10ths tree w/ flood lights. It was just a magic Bracket car, a more than a few called me Lucky! Socal racing in those days, either driving it to/from the track, or trailering it, there were so many tracks from Carlsbad, to insland empire Riverside, Irwindale, O.C.I.R., T.I., LA County Raceway, Bakersfield, it was the heyday of Southland tracks for any NHRA Bracket racer, each track was open at least 2 days a week, and we could race somewhere, everywhere 5 to 7 days a week, and you could catch a race on the way back from wherever you raced last night, catch a few zzzzz's in the car upon arrival, and race again tomorrow. So, looking at all the data, from 1993 forward on this slow budget Stocker, it is currently a very consistent slow Bracket car. One of the most I have ever driven of you look at it from a driver perspective (it has had a few little new build bugs since I first ran it on a quarter mile strip again last September) , but those were to be expected to pop up. Fixed em moved on. The car is sound, the car at elevation is slow, but that trip to Pomona shocked me (- .126 under at Vegas, nearly 8/10ths under at Pomona in 3 passes -.797 under). My deep dive said I saw those numbers before at Pomona in Feb 1995 log book showed 3 passes -.701, -.703, and -.721, then I broke a timing belt mins from E1 Sunday. Now, the driver, I sat out of the sport completely for 26 yrs., I knew it would be a tough return at 66, no longer a kid, no longer even middle aged, and the biggest 3 challenges were, the LED Tree, no longer 11-12 spots on an incandescent bulb to choose from for a spot to leave on (crap, in my heyday of decades long gone by...mainly the 1984 season, I foot braked, and counted down on a 5 amber tree from the top bulb down, nodding my head at the center of every bulb), try that on an LED tree. |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
I had red light itis the entire 4 races plus I ran from September forward to the end of the year in E1 except adjusting to a single day of .030, .031, and .033 lights at Bakersfield Q1, C1, and E1, then next day went red again in E2. Pomona was off the trailer .020 Q1, .010 Q2, and -.008 again red E1 (though - .666 to -.797 under index in lower elevation and good air). (The absolute bane of a locked stock ECM/PM with virtually zero tuning capabilities...So far).
But, I long ago grew up racing at my night owl time of day, not many early morning races. It was afternoon time trials, night racing, and I wake up after the sun sets (no matter how long I have been up!) A natural born night owl here. Coffee, and a lot of it is my wakeup juice. So, experience tells me I am close, but get away from coffee as a prelude to class racing. It was killing me. Then I found a legal cure, as I stopped taking my coffee pot to the track, but then also too shell shocked from many E1 red-light, I swung the as bad opposite direction to .060-.098 greens that will not also win many rounds/races. Though a few more than leaving first reds will. Long story short, I finally found an easy (and legal), cure, and though it took a while, it took. Last race was Q1 .005, C1 was .012, E1 (still not yet fully convinced, I came up on the converter in E1, then before staging said nope, I backed off 200 rpm, staged and lazed out a .059 just to make sure it was not red), and banged off what I thought was my best run yet, followed by E2 .018, though both on the brakes at the big end I took just a bit too much stripe...OK, the car has been in the zone, though very slow at Vegas, very consistent when I am not attempting to push it the 3 tenths plus faster it is absolutely very capable of running, and just driving it the same, and the drivers head is finally out of his butt and in the game also, at the same time. Ok, let me take a pic of 6 time slips, and resize the pic and post it. All are at Las Vegas, altitude struggle bus track w/that lousy DA. 1 from E1 November 2023(cold out), 5 from April 2024 (98 Degrees out), pay no attention to R.T.'s I covered that already. Pay little attention to the final ET's 5 of the 6 were somehow on the brakes, a lil' or a lot, leading or following. 2 different shifters, many tiny or large changes, and a major class change and change back, all are either E1, E2, C1 competitive races. But, struggle or not, as a lifelong bracket racer ...7 thou between November 2023 E1, and April E1, and look at all the 1,000' ET's and MPH. The car has been in the game, the driver was just needing to catch up, and quit worrying about going fast. The super fat air, with the stock ECM/Power Module is doing its job, even if phat and rich as can be. The dial in's are not all equal. That is super perplexing to the guy who rarely ever faces anyone in his class and is a bracket racer at heart. I am going to, but would you touch that? Go ahead Billy, Yac, and anyone else...Yes, I need to laptop tap, tap tune. But, I am going to both document everything, every lil' thing I can first before we put that Holley EFI System it needs on it. It will be changed a lot before October. It is still hard to go that route when it can run that consistent in present form. |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
Next up, a Holley EFI System & Harness w/a wide band 02, a 2 Step, convert the brakes to manual, get that converter loosened to 5,000 & refresh the Transaxle while it is out (as those bands and clutches are the 1984 originals), and get the cam I started the car with a year ago (or 1 like it and updated closely with it to today's technology back in the car). If I am going to risk screwing up a decent thing to go faster, we might as well go all the way. At least I know it is a good starting point, the turtle can run 8 tenths under, just not at Las Vegas. (-134 under a factored index on a 17.61 dial in in EF/S (17.75), against a -726 under 9.65 dial in in FS/C (10.47), just does not feel that comfortable at the outset, but it can be very rewarding if the car does its job, and you do yours). Dead 6 will put a big smile on your face...And followed by Dead 0-in the other lane, a round later can take it away too!
It's all fun and games I would not trade for anything right now, even when it was the struggle bus. Then there are other considerations, wheels, tires, bearings, brakes, alignment changes, etc....all in good time. So, most of the plans I had last Winter at least for the car, are still the plans I have again now. With all that completed, we will again later attempt to test it in DF/S trim again. Until all is, I wouldn't even for kicks attempt it unless it was a sea level track. The California Car, just loves California air. It liked FL, air, and Houston Air too though. |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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(Since last races in april; Changed 02 sensor, added beam breaker)
June 8th & 9th Summit Bracket Racing Las Vegas, NV 109 degree plus weather (Super Sunny and junk air) Saturday -.007 Red TT1, -.005 Red TT2, .024 E1 Win 17.75 Dial/17.784 to a .121 12.92 Dial 12.910 B.O., .018 E2 Win 17.75 Dial/17.742 to a .100 14.38 Dial 14.275 B.O., -.014 Red E3 Loss 17.74 Dial/17.836 to a -.065 11.83 Dial 11.913. After the 3rd rnd loss Saturday changed the fuel pressure regulator to a new adjustable regulator, attempted to adjust the pressure downward from 42 psi to attempt to lean it out a bit, but the minimum adjustment ended up raising the pressure to 50 psi. (Left the new regulator on the car). Sunday (Temp and corrected altitude even higher.) Had Coffee in the morning and knew 1st TT was going to be deep red and it was -.051 RedTT1, 17.618 (a 10th and a half plus quicker than TT1 Saturday, so the ECM is adjusting properly, more fuel pressure), in TT2 I made a bunch of biological and car adjustments that did not pan out (I did too many at once) Ate food, lowered front WD Slicks a full psi, and beyond and it showed .118 TT2 17.653, Adjusted w/ low caffeine dose via half a pepsi, and put the front tire adj. back up 1 psi .042 E1 Win 17.66 dial 17.623 double breakout, against .113 12.45 dial/12.410 B.O. (MOV .0031), then ran into Paul Wong E3 and a weekend ending Red Light knowing it was going to be a tree chopper -.036 Red 17.64 Dial 17.634 Loss against his .018 12.16 Dial and 1 under 12.150 (So I needed to hit hard and went waaaay too far! Car was dialed right my 6 thou too quick against his 10 thou too quick was right there together, driver just wound too tight. On to start bigger and better things, and finally start to make this car finally tuneable! Car is still in storage in Las Vegas until all the parts and pcs are in and ready to put on the car, but the Holley Terminator X ECU, Main Power Cable are in already, and made up a pr. of electronics mounting boards (1 for me and 1 for a friend in Texas (Greg Hogue), who is building a Stk.1984 2.2L Daytona Turbo Edition).Attachment 70148 Attachment 70149 Attachment 70150 Attachment 70151 Attachment 70152 Attachment 70153 Attachment 70154 Attachment 70155 Attachment 70156 |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
I will be using an un-terminated 15' main harness to create a custom harness (Using the Universal MPFI docs as a guide), as they don't make a terminated harness for the 84 Daytona 2.2L/135 CI Single point TBI.
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
The first (White) photo reminds me of 87 Daytona Pacifica turbo 1 DF/SA car I had way back when. I enjoy your story
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
I have been out since @ 1995...reading Yanko" and Nees's stories kinda is giving me the bug again. Making me forget the reasons I left NHRA stock racing/
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Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
Hey Gary, ya know I've been wanting to respond to your build for a while but I've been concerned about the possibility of me going blind reading your response.
I actually have a little bit of experience with the mid-80s 2.2s and, if it were me, I would go in one of these two directions; #1. Leave the engine combo as it is, get your Holley system up and running and commit to running E with the car. My reasoning being that (from my experiences) the 2.2 makes good torque for a smallish engine and it doesn't like to see RPM. AND the .95 that you get in index. #2. (What I would do) Change it to a Holley carb and IMMEDIATELY contact Pat and show him that your '84 combo is EXACTLY like the same engine that is in a '85 Plymouth Turismo (again EXACTLY!!!). The only difference being '84 combo, 107HP and the '85 combo, 102. Specs, part #s and all. And run it in E. If you decide to do this ^^^^^^ then do it right away before the NHRA crew leaves for the holidays and before the new HP revisions come out. Oh and spend a little more time wrenching and a little less time typing! ;-) |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
Gary, the advice you received in the post above is 3-4 Thousand Dollars
worth of advice for free. The years of experience that went into that advice boggles the mind. If I can be so bold, TAKE THE ADVICE!! Do not reply with pages of questions, just TAKE THE ADVICE. When you contact NHRA, do not be wordy or lengthy. In fact, show them Billy's post. They know he has done all the research, and it will save them time. You also had Robin Lawrence offer to help you, you now have two fantastic resources in your corner. I would suggest when either one gives you information, I would TAKE THE ADVICE. If you can follow this, you will end up with one very bad Hot Rod. J.R. |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
...... more than a few called me Lucky!
Ah, but you truly are LUCKY to have an understanding family, and so many racing friends willing to assist and help you, and the opportunity to re-engage old friendships made along the way....not all of us are blessed that way.....Great story |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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I just got this advice Billy (I was actually too busy wrenching over the winter to even read my own build thread responses. I will try not to blind you), I took you up on advice #1, dropping the car off in Lake Havasu City, AZ in 7 days to finish up the Holley Term. X install, get it dyno tuned after the finish up of the software. Car has been tested at DF/S weight as is in Vegas but is currently altitude finicky on the stock efi system and it was right on the index there at lower weight (and that can be restored to DF/S wt. In about an hr). But, I am going to also follow the advice you listed in number 2, and then start collecting the parts if Pat makes the allowance to run the 84 Daytona as a carbed edition and agree that is very valuable advice if possible and the argument seems more than reasonable to me...and agree that I present it just as you stated it without adding a single word to your explanation. Brevity is key. I know your experience & advice is solid and that I could use another option. It is worth more than just a try. And I really appreciate the info big my brother. I know the 2.2/135 usually does not like the higher rpm range, but something we did in building this one really likes it (albeit with a different 1 off cam with a ton of overlap and duration, but it needs the brakes converted to full manual and converter loosened up, along with a much needed transaxle rebuild (next winter scheduled changes). TY for the #2 option to try! It will be easier w/ the Holley up and running soon...and yes....I am very 🍀 lucky to get this late life do-over and am having a blast doing it. Even after a race weekend that started with a 3:00 AM wakeup Saturday and not hitting a pillow again until Monday at 2:00 AM. Today I feel much older than 67 from wrenching all night Saturday night in the pits instead of the garage, but I will recover and be back at it again after resting another 2 days before I get back at it again...CV axles just do not magically reboot themselves. |
Re: A 30 year journey, and a 2nd chance.
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