Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Goodbye C-12.
https://i.imgur.com/VZ8Nye1.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Your oil. pick up is in the wrong location...

Do yourself a favor and give me a call 650 922 zero 4 zero 7

Bob

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Bob, the oil pump pickup has been moved. It's now considerably closer.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

call me.....

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Been out of town most of the day today Bob, I'll call you tomorrow.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Had a few minutes this morning to get the lifters set up and the rockers on. I have three different lifters set up and I'm checking how they each react to oil pressure as well as differences rear to front.
https://i.imgur.com/OTad2gi.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

The oil collects in the valley and can’t drain back as fast with those extension vents. I’d get rid of them and leave the holes open for faster drain back to the pan.

Use the screw-in the back restrictors and drill the holes out a little larger and see what that looks like along with removing those extension vents.

Just my 2 cents ....

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Yes

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Rich, thanks for the input. I'm worried about restrictors in the back of the block because that will restrict oil at the lobe, as well, I see a volume difference at the rocker from front to back. I'm afraid restrictors and the lower volume at the front will cause other issues. And as far as the extension vents, the engine on the stand is very slightly angled front up (but not as angled as when in the car) and the oil barely stays on the valley. I'm currently seeing all the oil running to the back of the head and straight down the rear drain holes.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Todd, et al,

Trivial input perhaps, albeit solidly scientific in analysis.;)


The oil goes in the opposite direction of vehicle acceleration, so the oil return heads to the rear very naturally. So does the oil in the sump (pan).
The angle of the liquid is a function of the acceleration in g.:cool:
1g = 45deg liquid angle


60ft times reference is something interesting to look at.:eek: Particularly where the oil pickup is placed in a drag racing vehicle!

1.4sec = 62.28deg liquid angle
1.5sec = 58.9deg liquid angle
1.6sec = 55.54deg liquid angle


All these things and more were included in the paper I sent to you a while back. These things apply to all liquids in the vehicle, including the fuel system.


Regards,
HB2:)

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

As always an extremely enlightening post.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I'm going to break these next posts up so I can better explain what i'm trying to learn, with that said I really appreciate everyones input and advice during this build. I know I haven't taken all advice because well, I just kinda do it my way in the end, thanks everyone for helping a newb. As a recap: This engine ran fine for for a long time for Bill.... I believe the bearing failure was caused by my lifter choice, completely my fault due to inexperience. I had a stock volume pump and a massive amount of oil at the rocker, add the EDM holes AND grooved lifter bores. Now this worked below 5000-5500 rpm, but as soon as we started 6000+ rpm it went to hell quickly, the dyno never showed a dip in oil pressure so I guess the end of the line (rods) just couldn't get the needed volume. I bought a new +10% volume pump but in the end used the stock volume. The first two pictures illustrate two different lifters, the ones that I put in it, Bullet branded with a 70K hole in the pushrod cup and a little puck thing under the cup. The third photo is a Trend lifter, it has no little puck thing and in the videos I'll post later you'll see I bought pushrod cups with different sized oiling holes.
Bullet:
https://i.imgur.com/WmrqxmH.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/5I9C0e8.jpg
Trend:
https://i.imgur.com/dPauSjI.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

In this first video you'll see differences in lifters and how they respond flow wise to the engine being primed. I use a distributor with o-rings but this priming tool does not, I just didn't want to take the time to grove and o-ring the tool for comparison. I did these tests so I could get a better understanding of why we had issues. I hope some finds this useful, maybe even keeps someone from making the same mistakes I have. Also as an edit here, I'll be checking oil pressure at the front and rear of the block on the dyno as well as working on a fix for that pressure differental.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca6W...GK5m9g&index=2

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

In the second video I wanted to check the difference between valley vents installed and removed. You'll have to go back and look at the difference between the two videos, to me it seemed nearly identical as far as the standing oil in the valley. I also believe without the three lifters heavilly oiling the rockers plus the o-ringed distributor body should dry the valley up even more.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZeL-auU3mI

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Tell the people what happens when you run a Trend lifter with nothing in it.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

You need 2" longer pushrods :D:D:D

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

With the crank not turning your oil system and flow test is not accurate. But what your doing is good just to see what’s going on in the valley as to the oil drain back.

You really don’t need a lot of oil up in the heads in a drag race engine.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

End of your first video cylinder 2 with .014 puck drill running on high that would be the most oil I would let go up top. Oil in the valley never worried about it, clicked motor off at the stripe.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

They say practice makes perfect...
https://i.imgur.com/j23LvsVh.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I am a bit alarmed, was hoping to see next pictures of engine installed back in the Nova. Was this a planned tear down to double check everything ?

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Front main bearing looks like 1/4-1/3 of the oil hole is covering the corresponding oil hole in the block- any concern??? Fed387

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I'm also alarmed hahaha. Ran for 15 minutes, pulled the pan off and still looked like oiling issues.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I think the picture makes it look worse than what it is and if that were the only bearing with issues I would be concerned.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Dick, Post # , please. This thing is over 100 pages

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Not sure what to think about all this but it's still seems to be an oiling issue. I felt like I had looked at everything, Al Nyhus who has been a great help to me, pushed for me to take a closer look at the plug under the main cap. From the top and also looking from the side above the filter boss I could clearly see the plug was in far, (the bright spot in the picture from the side) blocking maybe 10- 20% of the passage leaving the filter. Is this part of the problem? I don't know, but it could be. Also ya'll do weird stuff with the oil pump I guess, well I don't know if its right wrong or indifferent. It ran with this "doctored" pump so it should be fine but I don't know crap about it, I'm going to take it out and replace it just to try something.
https://i.imgur.com/XSWO7Dth.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KWrVS2eh.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Mark post 1179 last pic #1 main -fed387

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

#1179

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

The plug is correct under the rear cap. No need to touch it.
The front main bearing was slightly out of position making the hole look misaligned.

Other than that I got nuthin

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Rich, the plug is pressed in far enough to be slightly blocking the main feed oil galley.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Thanks. I missed it the first time.
Not optimal but easiest thing to fix, so far ;-)

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Press in plug has been replaced by a pipe plug. More bearings.
https://i.imgur.com/ShZ2zBmh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kSYVOquh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EG1MFWQh.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Although these pictures are very hard to make out, here's the previous pressed in plug slightly blocking the galley and the current pipe plug, well, not blocking the galley.
https://i.imgur.com/KWrVS2eh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/eIlJtDoh.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Todd & Autumn,:D


The guys at Calico do a good job.;)


I had asked before, but do not recall the answer if it was given (getting old!). Is the bypass in the oil filter block adapter plugged? IF not, loads of oil does not get filtered. IF it is plugged, all the oil gets run through the filter.:eek:



Lots of gonna, wanna, shoulda, on this subject, but a race engine is not an over the road design so some factory philosophy must be rethought.;)



Hope you are narrowing in on the oiling problems and can get in some dyno testing soon.:cool:


Regards,
HB2:)
Dissident

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Yes, the bypass is plugged.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Forcing all the oil to be filtered by blocking bypass is not necessarily a bad thing. We did it on a 427 years ago with good results. That engine also had moroso gallery restrictors to limit oil up top as it had alum. roller rockers and was drag strip use only.
Not understanding why Dissident shows the EEK emoji ?

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

The EEK face was put in the wrong place!:confused:
Anyway, was trying to push for 100% filtered oil.......Now if I could only find my car keys and glasses:(


Have a great weekend and remember all the mothers out there.:D


Regards,
HB2:)
Dissident

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

This engine has something way more wrong than these minor things like blocked filter bypass or a partially blocked passage under the cap.

If it striped up bearings just running for 1/2 hour and not on a dyno or at the track it is more than a minor issue.

So far its been blamed on

Pickup location
To much oil in the pan
Grooved lifter bores used with EDM hole in lifters
To much oil up top
Rear plug slightly out of position

This is a relatively low HP and RPM engine and one that generally is a trouble free engine design as it comes from Chevy.

A good clean block with no blocked oil passages.
A good line bore and crank sized to give you lets say about .025"clearance on mains and rods with a good thrust clearance as well
Good quality bearings
A good oil pump and pickup and filter
Clean assembly of all the parts....

Oil pressure could be across a pretty wide range and still be fine...
Oil viscosity and engine temp. changes that a good bit but lets just say some sort of pressure even at lower rpms and a warm engine.
30-40lbs hot at an engine rpm of lets say 1000....

Everything above is up to the engine builder....parts, bearing clearances, oil and so on..

To many cooks spoil the pot...and even though lots of info and tips may be helpful it has not solved this engine riddle.....

Something is clearly being missed.....something way more than minor....

Go back and look at the block and the crank more carefully....

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

We all knew what you meant, but I fixed it anyway.
I agree, something unexpected is going on here. Kudos to Todd for allowing SO MANY people to look over his shoulder!

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Thanks....one zero missing....as you pointed out

I was not trying to be mean, just stating the obvious

Chevy’s generally have a good oiling system and can live without a lot of tricks in a race only application like this one

Yea I know they can and do get pushed very hard but again they do pretty well with the parts being used

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

How about this one. The block has a hair line crack above the main caps and is almost impossible to see. When it comes up to operating temp. it opens up and bleeds off the oil before it reaches the main bearings.