Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

It usually takes a spun bearing and a half of rod to bust up a cam.
I think I see the latter, only.
At least they were light. :-(

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Good news is the oiling issues were fixed, all the bearings look perfect and it had 75psi when it exploded. The bad news... the rod came off the piston and was swinging like a steel baseball bat. Total destruction!

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

The block you chose to use had a cam hole that appeared to indicate the block had a lot of core shift and the cam and crank centerline were offset to one side. Pictures were not real clear but it looked like that block was offset at the cam hole.....

Combine a block with this issue and some aftermarket rods with much larger big ends than stock and you may have had something hitting in the bottom end.

I built a 383 for a street car and ran into this problem. Had to use different rods to get comfortable clearance. Rods hit block on one side badly and cleared no problem on the other bank....Grinding the block may have hit water...

A 383 with even a stock rod will hit the cam on 2 cylinders every other rotation....I built a lot of them....

I always checked them with cardboard strips where the rods would nearly hit the cam on those 2 cylinders. Always Ground the rods at the inner bolt for clearance.....and that was with stock 5.7 rods...

Don't know if that had anything to do with your blow up but I thought I'd mention it since I saw the cam hole issue way back....

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I can see where this might happen (and was checked in this case). It's clear what happened here and it was a part failure. I won't be able to address my concerns till Monday when I start ordering new parts.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

That's a bummer. Sucks because this was a nice little piece till it broke, not a record setter but I feel like it was strong and safe. Cam was the same, luckily without me knowing, the cyl head guy here sent the cam to be checked the first time we had issues, now at least we can have a duplicate made.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

might be time to call one of the well known engine builders and get a complete motor or at least send your parts to them. then you could rebuild it when time comes to learn a few things. At least you may get on the track this year.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

A well known engine builder or a guy building outside in a tent can't do anything about a defective part.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

So sorry to read and see the news Todd.

I am a bit perplexed as to why a quality aftermarket rod(s)? would fail … we always are in hopes that using better/stronger components will avoid these issues.

How did the block, crank, and heads fair in this?

I continue to wish the best for your families adventure,
God Bless
Glenn

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Glenn, I know it may appear the rod failed but that is not the case. I'm sending some parts off to be checked and I would like to not throw a manufacturer under the bus until I've had everything looked at. I'll tell you I believe it was kind of a freak thing and I will lay it out there when I know for sure, even if it were my fault I'll tell everyone exactly that and I will own it. One head was hit and has 2 bent valves but we think it's fine. The timing cover is salvageable but everything else is destroyed, the block is broken internally as well as both outer sides. It made equal power with 1.3 rockers to either engine did prior with 1.5 rockers so I know it was going to be a pretty good one and honestly I feel terrible about it because it's tough to watch tears hit your kids cheeks after all her hard work literally hit the dyno room floor... but life is exactly like this some times. We've already dusted ourselves off and once again have a plan. After I make some phone calls tomorrow I'll post up our intentions. Thanks for your continued interest and well wishes Glenn.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Its about time some one said it

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I'm thinking just the opposite.
Much is to be learned by failure. We have taught the youth of this country way too often that the way to success is to buy your way in. The people on this site that I have the most respect for do much or all of the work themselves.

Wish the government leaders were as transparent as you have been with this build. I don't agree with everything you have done but admire your efforts.

Pete

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

This is the problem with people these days.. and then when the motor someone else built, that they are incapable of doing anything on, breaks they throw the builder under the bus and move on to the next guy..


This sport wasn't built or grown on the backs of the guy with the most money that could go out and buy the best parts.. it was done on the backs of the tinkerer and the thinker and the innovator. The guys and gals who had a passion for doing things with their hands and understand why things worked and how to make them work better. There is a pride with accomplishing a build and all the trials and tribulations involved and then seeing the end result make a pass down the track. You don't get that when you buy everything complete and have someone else put it all together so you can drag it to the track and run it..


It might be easier and yeah Todd and Autumn might get on the track sooner if they decide to take that route, but the car and engine look to be in very capable hands and as frustrating as always building and not getting to drive may be.. in the end this is just as FUN as running the car down the track. Especially the quality time it has led to with the two of them doing it together.


I want to do this again with my dad, this time my wife and daughter can be involved and that's the special part of this build...

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Guys I totally understand this, I mean, I look at this situation and think I must be an idiot for this to happen so many times, so I can see where most people would also draw that conclusion. I can sit here and place blame on everyone around me from the guy I bought the car from to an engine guy or parts manufacturer, but I really don't believe any of that is true, it's just "a racing deal". I dare you guys to post pictures of your failures! I'm commited and I believe in myself, as do the people around me. I mean I have actually seen threads on here downing the guys that are "checkbook racers" and I can assure you, I can call Warren, Sherman, BES or anyone today and order an engine, my wife called one of them on Saturday to order me a new one, I'm not doing that. Judge me if you will... haters make me famous!

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

First off, my sympathies and condolences for your misfortune with this engine build.I don't know how some people can sit at a keypad and criticize anything, but some still do. I looked in the one photo that it looked like the crank made it. Did it, or is there damage there as well? When you said that the bearings all looked good,that was a good sign. It's a good thing you didn't buy a Dart or a Bowtie block and hurt it. This is one of those things that happened.You and your daughter are a fine team, have an enviably nice car, stuff happens, and this too shall pass.Hang in there, keep the news coming,you guys will be back!

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

You just keep doing what you're doing. I don't agree with a lot of things that you're doing BUT doing it with your daughter is priceless! When my daughter was young, I would take her all over the place racing hoping that someday she would be racing with dad like her mom did. Well, it never happened for me and I'm just a bit jealous.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

You are so lucky to be doing this with your Daughter. With all the trials and tribulations that you have been through it is making your daughter a better person. And through this all you have constructed a Race car that your Daughter will be very proud to drive as she has been all the way through the process with her Dad.
You have constructed a show piece.
You could of given Warren or others 25-30k and still had the same thing happen. This was your build with all the parts that you thought we the best.
Don't listen to all the naysayers----keep up the good work.

Dan Chipman
Hamburger, Bachelder & Chipman from years ago

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Famous last words in any conversation involving me......."Greg, what you really should have done is...." . A self appointed know it all is a source of incredible,humor,laughter and mirth to all the rest of us who obviously can see that he doesn't !

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Usually the hardest things to accomplish in life, end up being are greatest reward once we accomplish them. Don't give up!, don't ever give up! Thanks for including us in your build.






Bret Velde
2003 FS/?

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I continue to follow your efforts and even with all the tribulations you and Amber have had to deal with. My heart goes out to both of you. I'll tell you that it really brings back some memories of my youth with my Dad more than 50 years ago with a (then called) Jr. Stock eliminator 348 Impala.
We broke a number of parts before we made it to the strip. It was all trial and error for the 2 of us. I was 14 years old and 1 of my 1st lessons was the pistons only go in 1 way(to match the valve reliefs), and that was only the beginning. I praise and admire your perserverence, and ask that you just keep on trying. I look forward to all the updates. You are the 1st thread I check every morning. Thanks for reading.
God Bless,
Walt

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I don't have pictures, But my 1st failure was a 347 Pontiac. It broke a rod bolt. 2nd a 260 Ford. Dropped a valve into a cast piston. Yes I learned and am still learning. :rolleyes:

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I want to thank everyone for all the encouragement, one of the highlights of my day is to come here and share with like minded racers that help us learn and grow.
Walt, it's so cool that a project I share with my kid can bring back a positive memory from your childhood. I really enjoyed reading that.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

We have parts ordered! Re-ordered the same crankshaft and set of rods, both seemed well machined and very consistent for parts on the cheaper end of the scale. Also ordered a new Dart block, the SHP version, if we're lucky maybe we'll get some parts this week. Boxed up some pistons and next dayed them back to Diamond so might hear something on that tomorrow then we'll get a new set in the works. I also took a couple rods out and pulled a main just to check the bearings to verify we did have a healthy one.
https://i.imgur.com/8Jmtfk0h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fiK4zrzh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zvfcFeCh.jpg
And this is one of my favorite carnage pics!
https://i.imgur.com/scGcUo1h.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Wow it beat itself up pretty bad, you and your daughter hang in there its worth it in the end when you take that win light ! I think we all have been through this just don't get discouraged .
Jerry
Retired 3490 3492 Stk SS SST

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Those are some great pictures Todd ;) …. did make a bit of a mess.

Through your disassembly where you able to discover anything that could be a clue to the failure?

Glenn

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Glenn, We know exactly what happened, why it happened is a bit of a mystery but we did send a few parts out to be examined that I hope will clear it up. We really need to know exactly why, so it doesn't happen again.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

The car I was a partner on only ran a couple of tenths under. We still had fun. The biggest problem we had was a cam that wiped a lobe. We "only" had to disassemble, clean, and reassemble. (And of course, be comfortable that we were sure why it wiped the cam.) You're dealing with, and handling a lot more. Very safely, for certain, of course. :-)

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Honestly Dave, It's been years since I've dealt with a flat tappet and I figured with all the lifter swaps, high spring rates and messing around it would give me issues but in the end a rod took it out so I guess another cam break-in is upcoming.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I should've made the point that even though we were only a couple tenths under (mostly because funds were limited), as others have said, we enjoyed working on it.

We built for a class that wasn't overly populated in our division, and also built a car that was capable of moving to different classes if the class got faster than our wallet thickness. lol We weren't there to set records, for sure, be we were able to go rounds on occasion.

Bottom line: What you both are going through is part of the fun, even though it can be really hard to see at times! Nothing worth while is easy. Cliche', but true.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Todd pm sent.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Todd, Do you have a pic of the other five pistons?

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Todd and Autumn,


Clip / Retainer come out and the pin slid out? What type of circlips were used? At what RPM did the thing come unwound? Bummer for sure.:(

You guys be tough and hang in there. Adversities makes one tougher, but it surely gets tedious at times.;)


Regards,
HB2:)
Dissident

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Thanks, responded.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Mark, what would you like to see?
https://i.imgur.com/rGpFdadh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ApgaKLPh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/tXRKsoeh.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Yes, Kramm-Lox, 5500 rpm.
https://i.imgur.com/6T9CF0ph.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Camshaft is on a 2 day trip to California.
https://i.imgur.com/gPtbPggh.jpg

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Todd,


Did the clip break the end off of one end? What did the end of the pin look like? Such as did it ride on the cylinder wall a bit before it cocked in the piston and jerked in out of shape?:(


An old guy's inquiring mind would like to know.;) Thanks in advance.



Regards,
HB2:)
Dissident

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Lock never broke, it was pushed out, pin was on the cyl wall and pulling on one side of the piston so it was jammed up in there. And yes, all of the locks were measured to make sure they had the correct groove size. before install.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

....Why I asked about the pistons..Should have mentioned the bottoms..not the tops ;-)

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

Obviously the one that broke had no lock but another had no lock and the pin was out and about to break that piston too, both locks in the oil pan. Also should mention that the correct pins with the chamfer for this type of lock were also in use here.

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 

I’ve never seen or used those pin locks.

My own engine in my dragster has Diamond pistons and spiral locks the std. used for many years. Single or double and I’ve never had one break or come out.

It was s.o.p. to verify the pins had some clearance or movement between the locks. Every piston I assemble, I check to be sure the pin can rotate freely in the piston without binding on the locks.

Obviously something way wrong with the lock, piston, pin arrangement.

That was a real bad mess and should not have happened given they were all good name brand parts.

Years ago we used a snap ring type pin lock. Spiral locks became the normal lock usually used. The locks tend to dig into the groove and raise up a burr but unless they were not installed right, rarely failed.

Very ugly mess. I’ve seen plenty of blown up engines. It’s never pretty and always expensive.

Sorry to see it ....