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-   -   H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit. (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=67661)

Nmbr1GMfan 07-30-2019 10:04 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Biebel (Post 593547)
I’ve never seen or used those pin locks.

My own engine in my dragster has Diamond pistons and spiral locks the std. used for many years. Single or double and I’ve never had one break or come out.

It was s.o.p. to verify the pins had some clearance or movement between the locks. Every piston I assemble, I check to be sure the pin can rotate freely in the piston without binding on the locks.

Obviously something way wrong with the lock, piston, pin arrangement.

That was a real bad mess and should not have happened given they were all good name brand parts.

Years ago we used a snap ring type pin lock. Spiral locks became the normal lock usually used. The locks tend to dig into the groove and raise up a burr but unless they were not installed right, rarely failed.

Very ugly mess. I’ve seen plenty of blown up engines. It’s never pretty and always expensive.

Sorry to see it ....

Rich, these Diamond pistons were built for a snap ring style (from Diamond) and had the corresponding pin for the snap ring style lock (they're different).

Rich Biebel 07-30-2019 10:38 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Yes Todd I would assume all those parts were made and machined to fit together and work properly.

Will be interesting to hear what feedback you get from Diamond.

Nmbr1GMfan 07-31-2019 08:01 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Got the heads apart today #3 chamber took a nasty hit. Have a few bent valves so I'll order a whole new set tomorrow and hope we have room to surface the head into good working order. Diamond has reviewed the pistons and believes there's a problem with the way the groove was machined, they're investigating further but in the meantime they'll expedite a set and get them out at no charge. Still waiting to hear back from Titan about oil pump fitment but I believe I'm going to cut my junk pan up and take some measurements.
https://i.imgur.com/04vddI4h.jpg

MikeMoller 08-01-2019 08:14 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Todd,
Make sure you check that head for cracks. If they have been milled quite a bit to get the right cc's they can crack easily from a piston or valve hit.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-01-2019 08:57 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeMoller (Post 593671)
Todd,
Make sure you check that head for cracks. If they have been milled quite a bit to get the right cc's they can crack easily from a piston or valve hit.

I'll be pressure testing the head, I'll post up some pictures of the process. Should be a new learning experience.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-01-2019 09:03 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Block is here, rods are here. It's groundhog day!
https://i.imgur.com/VhuqSA1h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mBN36v2h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/sf2sPkOh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/EFIbfRZh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/6GoaFjWh.jpg

Rod Greene 08-01-2019 09:28 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
DEJA VU all over again Reading your posts I have learned way more than I ever wanted to know about a Cheby. Wish we could get blocks for our Mopars in 2 days.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-01-2019 10:09 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rod Greene (Post 593679)
DEJA VU all over again Reading your posts I have learned way more than I ever wanted to know about a Cheby. Wish we could get blocks for our Mopars in 2 days.

I don't know much about a Mopar, and at this point I know more about machine work than I ever wanted to, but yes, Dart really came through with the block. We have plenty of work to do I'm guessing till mid next week.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-02-2019 02:54 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Cams are expensive... That is all.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-02-2019 10:01 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
I feel like today was a pretty good one, crank came in, lifters came in and the "cam guy" is on board with my ridiculous schedule. Got all 8 holes bored today and got it on a stand.
https://i.imgur.com/7bsCRhbh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/RmbNG97h.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/fiRCY0lh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qUyVTrPh.jpg

Greg Reimer 7376 08-02-2019 11:31 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Did you notice how much heavier that Dart block is over an OEM GM block? It should stay round for you for a long time.That thing is massively thick! Most of the machining is very close or spot on, the only thing once the block is bored and trial fitted is to check the deck height and correct as necessary. Best wishes for a great engine this time around!

Nmbr1GMfan 08-03-2019 09:56 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Reimer 7376 (Post 593784)
Did you notice how much heavier that Dart block is over an OEM GM block? It should stay round for you for a long time.That thing is massively thick! Most of the machining is very close or spot on, the only thing once the block is bored and trial fitted is to check the deck height and correct as necessary. Best wishes for a great engine this time around!

Thank you. I'll try to get a rough weight difference of the two blocks.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-03-2019 07:25 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Head took a big hit and is broke pretty bad.
https://i.imgur.com/fyv1YaZh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/oDuZSGyh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/T9f7B3th.jpg

Greg Reimer 7376 08-03-2019 10:16 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
What casting number is that head? Do you have any spares? I assume it's 1.94/1.500" valves.

gmonde 08-03-2019 10:54 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
You guys are troopers,,,almost in the top fuel range

Nmbr1GMfan 08-03-2019 11:05 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Reimer 7376 (Post 593827)
What casting number is that head? Do you have any spares? I assume it's 1.94/1.500" valves.

993, 1.94/1.50, no I dont have a spare.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-03-2019 11:08 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gmonde (Post 593828)
You guys are troopers,,,almost in the top fuel range

Work load wise... just like T/F LOL.

Greg Reimer 7376 08-04-2019 12:16 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Todd, I have at least 6 993 cores sitting on a shelf. I don't need all those heads. I would like to ship two of them to you for nothing but the shipping. Would UPS be OK? E mail me at chevellegreg7376@hotmail.com. This way you would have a pair and a spare. These heads are certainly not rare.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-04-2019 09:11 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Greg, sent you an e-mail. Thank you very much.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-04-2019 04:56 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Well damn! Posted in the wanted section, looking for a good set of heads. If you know of anyone let me know.
https://i.imgur.com/OLREPd8h.jpg

Glenn Briglio 08-04-2019 08:55 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Whose connecting rod bolts are you using?

Nmbr1GMfan 08-04-2019 10:05 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Briglio (Post 593897)
Whose connecting rod bolts are you using?

ARP.

Glenn Briglio 08-05-2019 06:55 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nmbr1GMfan (Post 593901)
ARP.

Which arp?

Nmbr1GMfan 08-05-2019 08:26 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn briglio (Post 593910)
which arp?

2000

Bill Bogues 08-05-2019 05:05 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
block weight: :Little M 218 lbs w/ billet main caps. Filled 010 stock block w/ 2bolt mains 183.

Mark Yacavone 08-05-2019 06:28 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Question for a few here.
The Molnar rods come with their own bolts..all fitted and sized. Same with Manley and the rest of them. Why would you want to change them on new rods?
I use ARP all the time and a great product, so that's not my point.
Just seems like some will never pass up an opportunity to spend more money, no matter what. LOL

Nmbr1GMfan 08-05-2019 08:36 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Most of the rods for up to 1000hp use the 2000 series bolt and the L-19 is less that 5% stronger.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-05-2019 08:58 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
First off, the new valves came in today, actually earlier than we first thought. The new camshaft is done and we'll have it later this week. No update yet on pistons. Spent the whole day in a frantic hunt for cyl head cores, I've had so many calls, texts and leads from the Classracer family network it's unreal. Autumn and Hannah Line have been networking for heads today too with some good leads. Still not 100% sure how this will go because I have a couple more to contact tomorrow morning but I hope to have a real plan in place no later than tomorrow because we really need some time to execute this properly. Thanks to everyone, and as soon as I'm really moving I'll shout out to thank everyone involved here.
https://i.imgur.com/f6v353fh.jpg

Glenn Briglio 08-06-2019 06:38 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone (Post 593968)
Question for a few here.
The Molnar rods come with their own bolts..all fitted and sized. Same with Manley and the rest of them. Why would you want to change them on new rods?
I use ARP all the time and a great product, so that's not my point.
Just seems like some will never pass up an opportunity to spend more money, no matter what. LOL

8740 bolts not the best.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-06-2019 09:41 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn Briglio (Post 594008)
8740 bolts not the best.

Glenn, these Molnar rods come with the ARP-2000 bolts and if the bolts were to be changed the rods could need a re-size. I believe even the 8740 bolt would be just fine for a 400ish hp engine.

Mark Yacavone 08-06-2019 11:43 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nmbr1GMfan (Post 594028)
I believe even the 8740 bolt would be just fine for a 400ish hp engine.

I believe you are right.
My reasoning is due to the fact that we used new GM factory bolts all through the 70's -80's and never had one fail..7- 8000 all the time.

Glenn Briglio 08-06-2019 12:09 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nmbr1GMfan (Post 594028)
Glenn, these Molnar rods come with the ARP-2000 bolts and if the bolts were to be changed the rods could need a re-size. I believe even the 8740 bolt would be just fine for a 400ish hp engine.

Not the horsepower of engine but the weight of piston assembly and rpm.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-06-2019 06:19 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
I've used the 8740 bolt in an 800hp small block and I've had the 2000 bolts to over 1000hp. I can't much comment beyond my experience but in my current particular case I should probably be using top of the line because all I do is break everything.

Nmbr1GMfan 08-06-2019 08:58 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Today things got slightly clearer, we're taking a 993 core and trying to get close to the one good head, the crank is 90% balanced and I'll finish it in the morning. Pistons should be here Thursday and cam will be here Monday. Oil pan, oil pump, bearings, timing cover, timing chain, plugs and gaskets will be here Thursday.

Greg Reimer 7376 08-07-2019 09:35 AM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
UPS tracking indicates that your 993 head is out for delivery by the end of today. Those people aren't kidding about the 2nd day delivery!

Nmbr1GMfan 08-07-2019 12:53 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Reimer 7376 (Post 594122)
UPS tracking indicates that your 993 head is out for delivery by the end of today. Those people aren't kidding about the 2nd day delivery!

Perfect, thanks again Greg. You're definitely keeping us rolling!

Nmbr1GMfan 08-07-2019 09:36 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Did some more work on the block today, plugging holes and a little grinding I missed, finished the balancing, pulled all the rods apart and cleaned them. Looking forward to tomorrow when some parts start showing up and maybe we'll have some new pictures ya'll can look at, untill then here's the plugging and balancing pics.
https://i.imgur.com/qFJV0mWh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/j2dqPJih.jpg

Nmbr1GMfan 08-07-2019 10:09 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Kind of a little side note on the CR community that I thought needed to have it's own post to mention a real positive experience in a world full of way too much negativity. It's certainly no secret this build has had some real ups and downs, but all of the downs were followed by help from the members here. The last explosion was followed by encouragement and help options from members. I would like to "call out" some people that reached out to help us with either parts, advice, or getting us in touch with people who may have parts. Autumn and I would like to thank you all in no particular order!
Jim Marshall
Greg Reimer
Keith Bennett
Nick Hoffman
Al Nyhus
Jim Schaechter
Bill Kelley
Rob Turkal
Hannah Line
I hope I didn't miss anyone. Thanks to all.

Wayne Kerr 08-08-2019 03:22 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Hello Todd,
I have been following your journey and can't imagine the heartache that you have been through.
I have been involved in professional racing for a really long time, and I would like to share some advise I was taught by one of the best: if you expect different results you have to change something. Please don't use those "fancy" wristpin retainers again. Round wire retainers or double spirolox have worked for ever. And be certain to have .030 or more wristpin end play, the pistons deflect and the wristpins broach the clips out. That lesson was an expensive one, we lost multiple Indy and Cup engines because of that. That piston deflection is one of the reasons you see "box bridge" pistons nowadays.

KC

Nmbr1GMfan 08-08-2019 07:38 PM

Re: H-I-J '76 Nova re-fit.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayne Kerr (Post 594209)
Hello Todd,
I have been following your journey and can't imagine the heartache that you have been through.
I have been involved in professional racing for a really long time, and I would like to share some advise I was taught by one of the best: if you expect different results you have to change something. Please don't use those "fancy" wristpin retainers again. Round wire retainers or double spirolox have worked for ever. And be certain to have .030 or more wristpin end play, the pistons deflect and the wristpins broach the clips out. That lesson was an expensive one, we lost multiple Indy and Cup engines because of that. That piston deflection is one of the reasons you see "box bridge" pistons nowadays.

KC

Agreed 100%, but I can assure everyone that any round wire lock (what these pistons were machined for) used would have come out as these wire locks did.


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