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-   -   '67 Camaro E/SA redo (https://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=50660)

HandOverFist 03-09-2014 05:36 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cad (Post 423726)
What alternator, crank pulley and bracket are you using?
Thanks
Clark

Clark, we have not had the motor out of this car yet and I'm not sure what pieces were used atm.

HandOverFist 03-09-2014 06:57 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
While it's down I will install the new battery...five pounds lighter and more cca (755) than the current resident.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps91328dab.jpg

John Musial 03-09-2014 10:40 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 423612)
Once again, no good news to report. Arrived at the track this afternoon with high hopes, but I was foiled again. I'm fishing for answers so let me set this up in chronological order.

Half way to the track my partner calls and tells us to make sure we check the transmission fluid level when we arrive. We had none in the truck so stopped at a auto parts store and picked up a quart. My buddy comes out and said they had no Dextron 3, so he bought what was available which was Dextron 6. I thought to myself no big deal.

Unloaded the car and ran it up and down the return road to warm everything up. Shifted fine and I stalled the car a couple of times noting nothing irregular. Pulled up to the trailer where my buddy is waiting to check the trans dipstick level...finds it low and puts about 3/4 of a quart in the transmission. Good to go.

After gearing up I pull the car into the staging lanes prepared to make a pass. My buddy is standing beside the car while I do my normal 1-2 shift burnout then ease forward. When stopped I put it into first gear and ease into the beam...stalled about 2700rpm I bump in and the lights come down. Nailed the throttle and it sounds like it blew the tires off the car...not sure what just happened I shut it down. A track hand looks under the car and says no fluid spilled. I restart and back the car into the oval track for a closer inspection. We talk for a moment and he says the tires never turned at the hit....hmmm. I back the car further into the oval track and try first gear again...it barely wants to pull the car. Second, third and reverse gear seem normal.

I ease the car back to the pits in second gear. Got under the car and check the cable adjustment which is dead on correct. We load the car and come back home still not sure what the problem is. While unloading the truck I grab the nearly empty bottle of transmission fluid and it catches my eye...that quart of fluid is a full synthetic. We use Dextron 3 in this transmission.

Question : Is it possible this was a self inflicted wound? Could a quart of synthetic fluid cause this metric 200 to slip that badly in first and have no apparent effect in the other gears? I'm going to pull the pan in the morning and check for any debris, but I can hear no odd noises coming from the transmission when running. I'm sure Thomas Arnett could say what it is off the top of his head, but it will likely be Monday morning before we talk.

Rich,

First off very nice car. My question, did you lose almost a quart of fluid from one week to the next?? If the car launched great when it broke the spring perches last week and the fluid level was fine....what made you think it needed more fluid. When I ran a metric I know they don't like to be brought up to the full mark. Good luck with the car.

HandOverFist 03-09-2014 11:34 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Musial (Post 423798)
Rich,

First off very nice car. My question, did you lose almost a quart of fluid from one week to the next?? If the car launched great when it broke the spring perches last week and the fluid level was fine....what made you think it needed more fluid. When I ran a metric I know they don't like to be brought up to the full mark. Good luck with the car.

John - While we had the car in the air repairing the damage from last week my partner drained the transmission and removed the pan to fix a nagging leak it had in the front gasket area. He caught most of the fluid as it was fresh and poured it back in when he was done. The small amount he lost is what we put in at the track.

cad 03-10-2014 01:16 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Thanks. I think I need to space out the lower driver side alternator bracket and go with the long water pump crank pulley. I think that is what yours has.

HandOverFist 03-10-2014 02:08 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cad (Post 423841)
Thanks. I think I need to space out the lower driver side alternator bracket and go with the long water pump crank pulley. I think that is what yours has.

Cad - When I next get around the car I'll scope it out and let you know whats what.

HandOverFist 03-10-2014 02:38 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Ready for battle duty once again...

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps595a31ea.jpg

Left the house around 4:30 am this morning and drove to Kentucky. As I pulled into Arnett's driveway his little terrier and I both spotted a fox bounding across the field behind the shop...little dog took off like a rocket after it lol.

I showed up unannounced and let Thomas know what had happened. He already knew about the driveshaft/pinion incident and as I suspected already knew what the problem was. He said " let's put it in the fixture and take a look at it." I was shocked...I had every intention of just dropping the transmission off and returning home. Watching Thomas was like observing a watch maker...I believe he could build these with his eyes closed. He took the time to show me every piece that had been modified and the reason for it...very detailed work inside this case for sure. Before leaving he also showed me many other one off parts he had built for others as well as for himself...the man is an artist.

I can't thank Thomas enough for his time...I know full well he had plenty of other work to do this morning. Great guy to talk with and very sharp with these race vehicles. I'll get this back in the car shortly and head somewhere Saturday for some long awaited results. ;)

Mark Yacavone 03-10-2014 03:27 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 423850)
Ready for battle duty once again...

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps595a31ea.jpg

Left the house around 4:30 am this morning and drove to Kentucky. As I pulled into Arnett's driveway his little terrier and I both spotted a fox bounding across the field behind the shop...little dog took off like a rocket after it lol.

I showed up unannounced and let Thomas know what had happened. He already knew about the driveshaft/pinion incident and as I suspected already knew what the problem was. He said " let's put it in the fixture and take a look at it." I was shocked...I had every intention of just dropping the transmission off and returning home. Watching Thomas was like observing a watch maker...I believe he could build these with his eyes closed. He took the time to show me every piece that had been modified and the reason for it...very detailed work inside this case for sure. Before leaving he also showed me many other one off parts he had built for others as well as for himself...the man is an artist.

I can't thank Thomas enough for his time...I know full well he had plenty of other work to do this morning. Great guy to talk with and very sharp with these race vehicles. I'll get this back in the car shortly and head somewhere Saturday for some long awaited results. ;)


So, what was wrong with the trans?

HandOverFist 03-10-2014 03:34 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
I had no camera with me this morning as I had every intention of just dropping it off. I'm not fluent in transmission lingo, but it was the first gear bearing spinning sprag cluster thingy closest to the tailshaft...that make any sense? :p He was confident it happened when the housing/pinion went sky high and hit the floor pan...it was pretty violent.

Rich Biebel 03-10-2014 04:48 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Glad to hear you got it fixed so quickly and from your description it sounded like it lost first gear.

I was thinking that driveshaft/rear action could have hurt something but did not feel like it would be in the trans.

Pretty surprising really...

I have never been inside a Metric and don't plan on it anytime soon.

Me and a friend rebuilt my 700R4 many years ago and these days I stick to a Powerglide.......Not much in there....

Alan Nyhus 03-10-2014 05:13 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by cad (Post 423841)
Thanks. I think I need to space out the lower driver side alternator bracket and go with the long water pump crank pulley. I think that is what yours has.

Cad, you might get some ideas from this lash up. Crank pulley is an East Coast #2253.

For what it's worth..... -Al

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps95831787.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ps195ca88d.jpg

brent flynn 03-10-2014 07:52 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Glad you got it back together...hope Saturday goes well! Im waiting about 3 more weeks before i set my engine/trans in...gonna run the car one last time, with bracket engine, to make sure that ignition is good...Hooked up MSD around Thanksgiving...I cant make APril INdy meet , still need a couple things, and its TAX season..., but i will be there watching... Shooting for Joliet..then maybe Bowling Green in Aug :)

cad 03-11-2014 12:42 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Thanks Alan....we spaced it out tonite using the long crank pulley and I think it will work.
Clark

HandOverFist 03-11-2014 01:07 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Yes, I was glad it wasnt more serious as well. I'm replacing both u-joints in the driveshaft with Spicer non-drilled units just for peace of mind before it goes back into service. Plans right now are to take the car to Music City Raceway in Hendersonville Saturday afternoon...just a 1/8-mile track, but it generally hooks well and will give a good indication of the car's potential. Once satisfied with the reliability we will head back to Bowling Green.

brent flynn 03-11-2014 06:36 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 422979)
Yep - If we can muster a 5-under car that is consistent I will have reached my goal for this season. I know it will take more $$$ in the motor to run heads up. Plans are to run all the combo races this year at Beech Bend so I can gain some experience at racing the finish line...my weak point. :p

How many combo races are they running , this year? You have schedule?
Who knows, i might be able to hit one or 2...Thinking about the August divisional, right before the Nats...

HandOverFist 03-11-2014 07:15 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brent flynn (Post 423970)
How many combo races are they running , this year? You have schedule?
Who knows, i might be able to hit one or 2...Thinking about the August divisional, right before the Nats...

About 8 I think Brent along with other events... http://www.beechbend.com/dragschedule.htm

brent flynn 03-11-2014 07:13 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Cool...thanks!

kwm 03-12-2014 12:05 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brent flynn (Post 424045)
Cool...thanks!

Ohio Valley has 7 Combo races & the Doorslammers on the schedule.

HandOverFist 03-15-2014 11:08 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Finally, some good news to report. Took the car to a local 1/8-mile track this afternoon (Buffalo Valley) just to see if it would go down track without any parts falling off. Although the track runs slightly uphill and the start line was less than ideal we finally caught a glimmer of the cars potential.

The first pass was with the Caltrac links in the upper holes and the carb a little lean.

Second pass with the links still in the upper holes and added richer metering rods.

Third pass we put the links in the bottom holes. We made four more laps down the track, but it was getting ugly by then with tire spin on the launch so we called it done for the day. I figure the next trip to Bowling Green will result in low 1.40's 60' times from being on a prepped surface. I be happy for now. :)

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6cf5982a.jpg

brent flynn 03-15-2014 11:48 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Lookin good! I always have run my Cal tracs in bottom hole... 1.440 60' out of old bracket engine and 4.11 gear... and 3550# on the starting line! :)

HandOverFist 03-15-2014 11:52 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
I'm sure there is more to be had there Brent. Car leaves kind of flat...I need to try putting it on the two-step.

http://youtu.be/VlLhMZo1YfA

brent flynn 03-16-2014 12:06 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Thats pretty dang good , for leaving on the footbrake... what rpm did you bring it out at? I wont be on 2step just yet... i have to put switch on brake pedal, or try a pressure switch... either way, Im drum brakes all the way around...

HandOverFist 03-16-2014 12:10 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Stalled at 2700rpm every pass I made today. Can't wait to get back to Bowling Green! :) I know this car will hold for 3000rpm...probably more on the track.

Alan Nyhus 03-16-2014 08:44 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Rich, since that 7.19 equates to 11.20's (qtr mile), you're roughly .50 under the E/SA 11.70 index.

Nicely done, sir! -Al

HandOverFist 03-16-2014 09:23 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan Nyhus (Post 424607)
Rich, since that 7.19 equates to 11.20's (qtr mile), you're roughly .50 under the E/SA 11.70 index.

Nicely done, sir! -Al

Thanks Alan...that's just about where I was shooting for this season. Should be a fun little combo car if it proves consistent. :)

Rich Biebel 03-16-2014 09:24 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Looks good.....I did not know what the 1/8th mile numbers equate to for a car like that....

Sounds like it sagged a little on the launch.....maybe carb....maybe converter a little tight for the engines power....

Q-Jets are touchy for sure.......Accelerator pump shot is very important when your footbraking.....

I had 3 of them for the last Nova stocker I had.....one was good....2 were always problems off the line no matter what I tried with them....

I never 2 stepped any stocker I had......footbrake only and usually right around 3000

Your hard work paid off......

brent flynn 03-16-2014 09:43 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 424597)
Stalled at 2700rpm every pass I made today. Can't wait to get back to Bowling Green! :) I know this car will hold for 3000rpm...probably more on the track.

Curious to see what happens when you get it on the 2step... I hope to be able to hold near 3k on footbrake with my new ATi converter...it should be right around 5000flash... I can go 2500-2600 fairly easy with the 4200 8'' ATi thats in there now... But, i usually leave at 2300-2400,...its comfortable, and i cut pretty good lights at that rpm and 30# tire pressure...Radial slicks will probably throw a wrench into that formula! hehe

HandOverFist 03-16-2014 09:50 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
We have pretty much settled on 18 pounds in the radials. I have a new set on the way. As far as the two-step goes I have no clue...I have heard it both ways. Guess I will just have to try it to see what effect it really has.

HandOverFist 03-16-2014 11:04 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
After reviewing yesterday's data I'm not convinced the lower holes in the Caltracs was the right move. I'm going to move the bars back up and start playing with the shocks more. I slowed down the video for the third pass in the lower holes...

http://youtu.be/w8zVTwOk6Jo

brent flynn 03-16-2014 11:30 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
It must be a small block thing...hehe I never tried upper holes... i have a feeling you may not want upper holes, when you try the 2 step... also, it was cold yesterday... does it seem to lose some to the 330? because, the 60' showed improvement...

HandOverFist 03-16-2014 11:48 AM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brent flynn (Post 424635)
It must be a small block thing...hehe I never tried upper holes... i have a feeling you may not want upper holes, when you try the 2 step... also, it was cold yesterday... does it seem to lose some to the 330? because, the 60' showed improvement...

It was 70 degrees - My thoughts are I was reading too much into the bar change for the third pass... I believe the tires just began to come back in. The track surface was poor, but I suspect the tires need to be hit harder and the shocks tightened up. First two passes were with the links in the upper holes...partner failed to get a good video of the first two runs.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps6cf5982a.jpg

brent flynn 03-16-2014 12:05 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
I may try upper holes, after i get my car settled down, with new engine...not convinced it'll help me, but you never know... My shocks are just 3 way adjustables, set at 50/50, and fronts are same, set at 80/20...and it seems to work...very consistent 60ft's... and comes up quite a bit....this is 462'', 4.11 gear, 4200 8'', 2400rpm footbrake, @ 3550#s 1.45-1.46 on this pass... best is 1.440 at night...and Pheonix Bias plys

https://scontent-b-iad.xx.fbcdn.net/...14671304_n.jpg

brent flynn 03-16-2014 12:52 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
What are you using for a fuel filter , before the pump? I thought about this...

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...rm=Fuel+filter

HandOverFist 03-16-2014 01:01 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brent flynn (Post 424647)
What are you using for a fuel filter , before the pump? I thought about this...

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...rm=Fuel+filter

Not using one Brent. I use a funnel with a fine ss mesh screen when pouring the cell.

brent flynn 03-16-2014 01:19 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 424650)
Not using one Brent. I use a funnel with a fine ss mesh screen when pouring the cell.

I use one too... just wasnt sure if i needed to put one , in line, when i change pumps... i have 2 pumps on car(holley's in to a 'Y') but its not legal. Danny Ashley said not to run one, either. Are you 8AN to pump, or 10AN? I have fuel cell, with foam...as long as foam is good, should be ok...far as i know, its not breaking down... ive never run anything but race fuel in it...been in car since 2002... I have a 280BG pump, but hate to put it in car, worried it may be troublesome...Gonna save my $ and get a 275 Magna Fuel ...i have holley Volumax regulator...

brent flynn 03-16-2014 01:24 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
So, are you running a filter before carb, then?

HandOverFist 03-16-2014 01:25 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Yeah, 10AN to pump and 8AN the rest of the way. No filter at all anywhere in the system.

brent flynn 03-16-2014 01:28 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Cool...i have pretty much everything i need to switch to 10AN out of cell, to the pump... then ive got most everything i need to finish #8 line to front... i may need a fitting or 2, but, will figure it out, as i change stuff over. I figured i'd test with the system thats in place ... One thing at a time...hehe

brent flynn 03-16-2014 01:33 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Is this not a filter, before the pump? Did you remove it?

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pse8554fce.jpg

HandOverFist 03-16-2014 01:51 PM

Re: '67 Camaro E/SA redo
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brent flynn (Post 424655)
Is this not a filter, before the pump? Did you remove it?

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...pse8554fce.jpg

If it is Brent I had not noticed it...I will check it out. :)


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