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HandOverFist 11-11-2014 10:48 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mike britt (Post 452590)
Hey Rich, if you look at how flimsy that core support is, that's probably why Ford put that brace there.

I have a new radiator support sitting in the dining room floor Mike...it isnt that flimsy. That also doesnt address the reason for the extra braces out back. The more I think on it the more I believe those braces were for the crossmember...it's the only explanation that makes any sense. The tubes are too light/thin to deal with any flex...their only strength would be in tension and compression.

Alan Nyhus 11-12-2014 08:25 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Rich...take 'em off. But throw 'em in the trailer, just in case. ;) :) -Al

FireSale 11-12-2014 12:04 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
I found a descent article on Fox body suspensions and those bars don't seem to be considered part of the suspension. They aren't mentioned here at all.

79-2004 Mustang Suspension Info

Dale

Mark Yacavone 11-12-2014 01:38 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Guys, If those braces are conv. only, then they are there to lessen nose or cowl shake or door closing up or rattling, going over rough ground or railroad tracks or something like that.
Won't hurt to leave them off on a drag car.
Agree with Alan..Clean it up, put it and the bolts under the seat in the truck.
Probably be there for a long time.

Dave Noll 11-12-2014 02:21 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mark yacavone (Post 452644)
if those braces are conv. Only, then they are there to lessen nose or cowl shake or door closing up or rattling, going over rough ground or railroad tracks or something like that.
Won't hurt to leave them off on a drag car.

this

slowpony 11-12-2014 03:05 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 450466)
Appreciate any input James - I'll contact Bullet Cams when the time comes. I'm sure Thomas Arnett can help on the C4...I know squat about Ford transmissions. Right now I'm trying to garner info on control arms and springs...also wondering about 26" vs 28" rear tires.

Still awaiting repairs on the lift I just eyeballed the car a bit more this afternoon. I focused on the steering wheel with the blown airbag and began to mess with it a bit. The previous owner had taped the face up with some duct tape...effective, but it left a mess of glue residue when I peeled it off. A little WD-40 and a rag and it began to clean up and come back to presentable. I believe I can salvage the wheel after all...might even use the built in horn button for a linelock switch before it's over.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0b879d0b.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps0b6ec07c.jpg

I need to formulate a plan for the console as far as switches and aftermarket shifter go.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psc2e4146a.jpg

Even with the back seat deleted the roll bar appears it will be a tight fit. Still leaning towards the Maximum Motorsports 6/8 point kit for convertibles until I hear better otherwise.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps2ec3c717.jpg

Steering wheel for 89 is different, no air bags.

slowpony 11-12-2014 03:14 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 452449)
A pic of the front brace attached...

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps46afb595.jpg

I know some use these parts, but I never envisioned it would be illegal to delete or modify said part. What exactly constitutes "factory suspension"? I can substitute aftermarket rotors/calipers but can't touch this junky bracket? It looks like a bandaide fix from Ford to me. When I installed the subframe connectors I had to cut the factory braces at the rear that the back braces bolt to...does this make the car null and void now? It sure isnt going to be as Ford produced it.

These braces were put on convertibles to lessen cowl shake and to distribute load from k member back to body structure. I have a 94 GT convertible with them. My 86 GT T-top car and early convertibles don't have them. I am not sure when they started putting them on, but strut tower braces served the same purpose. Car is most certainly stiffer with frame connectors and a roll bar.

HandOverFist 11-12-2014 03:26 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by slowpony (Post 452658)
Steering wheel for 89 is different, no air bags.

That's good because this one no longer has an air bag either. :p

Got those 4-cylinder springs today...I'll tackle those this weekend.

Rory McNeil 11-12-2014 03:57 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 452665)
That's good because this one no longer has an air bag either. :p

Got those 4-cylinder springs today...I'll tackle those this weekend.

If you have never replaced the front coil springs on a Ford Fox body, be prepared to scratch your head a few times.Unless you cut the old coils with a torch, and are installing lowering springs (shorter free length), it can be a bitc%! If you really want to have some "fun", try installing a pair of un cut Moroso drag springs! It seems that nobody has the correct special spring compressor, so I found it easier (make that somewhat less difficult), to unbolt the 2 large inner control arm bolts, and use a floor jack under the control arm. as long as the engine is still in the car, this method works fairly well. Of course trying to re install those lower control arm bolts afterwards will be a pain.

FireSale 11-12-2014 05:01 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil (Post 452670)
If you have never replaced the front coil springs on a Ford Fox body, be prepared to scratch your head a few times.Unless you cut the old coils with a torch, and are installing lowering springs (shorter free length), it can be a bitc%! If you really want to have some "fun", try installing a pair of un cut Moroso drag springs! It seems that nobody has the correct special spring compressor, so I found it easier (make that somewhat less difficult), to unbolt the 2 large inner control arm bolts, and use a floor jack under the control arm. as long as the engine is still in the car, this method works fairly well. Of course trying to re install those lower control arm bolts afterwards will be a pain.

For what it's worth, I had the same problem with my 68. No commercially available spring compressor fit the aftermarket front coils I used. Had to disassemble the compressor and put it back together inside the spring to make it work.

Dale

87gt50 11-12-2014 06:39 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
1 Attachment(s)
I have used a spring compressor designed like this to remove/reinstall uncut Moroso drag springs on my fox several times. Access to the tool through the hole in the center of the spring perch on the a-arm, and make sure you get as many coils as possible included in the compression.
Btw, keep up the good work, you will have lots of fun with your Mustang!

SSGT Mustang 11-12-2014 07:59 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 452665)
That's good because this one no longer has an air bag either. :p

Got those 4-cylinder springs today...I'll tackle those this weekend.

Compressors never worked for me. I use an old fashion 3-4 foot crow bar with an angled tip.

I lower the front of the control arm while it's bolted onto the k-member. I put the spring in place (it will only seat about half way in at the bottom, maybe less). I wedge the crow bar into the control arm spring pocket (using the angled tip pointed downward) and push the spring backward while jacking up the front of the control arm. Reinstall the struts bolts. Move to the next spring.

You can get springs in your car in about 10 minutes this way.

I know it goes without saying, but you need to be careful. Make sure that you and the guy jacking the control arm are not standing in front of the spring in case it decides to go airborne.

JHeath 11-12-2014 09:14 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
1 Attachment(s)
I have one of these, made a flat plate on the hex end, and went up thru the bottom of the control arm,hooking the upper hooks on the spring.

FireSale 11-13-2014 01:45 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JHeath (Post 452710)
I have one of these, made a flat plate on the hex end, and went up thru the bottom of the control arm,hooking the upper hooks on the spring.

Yep, that's mine. I removed two of the hooks to make it fit in the spring and reconnected them inside it to finish the job. Lots of painful short radius wrench work.

Dale

HandOverFist 11-13-2014 02:36 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Thanks guys - Our spring compressor consists of flat plates and has been used on all springs installed in Chevrolets...I suspect it will work just as well on the Ford. I have never installed an uncut Moroso spring in any car myself. Hope these springs work out the first go round.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps476f35d4.jpg

HandOverFist 11-17-2014 01:12 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Car is at a friends machine shop for the roll bar finish welding. I'll tackle the front-end when he is finished.

Let's talk headers - While I'm not at that point yet I ran across a good deal...if they will work on this combo. A used set of long tube stainless Kooks, 1-7/8" primaries, 3.5" collectors, $550...to large for this engine?

What are you fellows using on similar cars?

FireSale 11-17-2014 03:18 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
I can't speak to the clearances in your car, but I have Hooker Super Comp long tube headers on the 302 in my 68 coupe and getting at the header bolts is beyond painful. I have looked up header bolt solutions on the Net and I keep coming up with "Header Clearance Issue on Vintage Camaro" in the Ford searches so maybe it's not badge specific. The bolts to the lead side of the pipe aren't too bad but the ones on the back of each bend are super tuff to get to. I have a mix of bolts depending on what I could get to fit.

Power or manual steering? Better clearance on manual boxes.

Mine are 1 5/8 by 3 1/2 and I can't imagine larger ones on that engine. People do it but they cut the shock towers out, too.

Dale

Dave Gantz 11-17-2014 08:21 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FireSale (Post 453083)
People do it but they cut the shock towers out, too.
Dale

Been a while since I've been involved, but I'm pretty sure there's no cutting shock towers in Stock Eliminator.

HandOverFist 11-17-2014 10:08 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Well, with no part number disclosed I did a little deeper research on Kooks. It appears those headers would not fit with a stock K-member and likely would not even bolt-up to standard port heads. I was also advised that overall those headers were way too large for this combo.

slowpony 11-17-2014 11:36 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 453096)
Well, with no part number disclosed I did a little deeper research on Kooks. It appears those headers would not fit with a stock K-member and likely would not even bolt-up to standard port heads. I was also advised that overall those headers were way too large for this combo.

For what it is worth, my research indicates that 13/4 is as big as you would want to go with stock heads, and that is with mufflers providing back pressure. 15/8 open with stock heads seems to be the standard. I am talking about long tubes. I am looking at 13/4 with full exhaust for Pure Stock.

HandOverFist 11-17-2014 11:46 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
It's looking like I will be purchasing a header then cutting flanges for individual tube mounting and cutting the primaries for slip-fit collectors.

Here you go Pony... http://www.ebay.com/itm/151471684683...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Alan Nyhus 11-17-2014 12:11 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Rich, Pacesetter makes a nice 1 5/8" header for your car that fits well and has nice straight sections off the flange. Add a set of basic slip fit collectors (2 1/2") and I think you'd be in good shape. -Al

FireSale 11-17-2014 12:24 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
I just went through "long tube headers" at Summit and it seems everything for 302 SBF that is larger than 1 5/8 is footnoted as being for aftermarket heads.

Dale

Sean Marconette 11-17-2014 12:46 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Hedman makes a good set. My first set lasted 16 years and those were coated after test fitting and making clearances. The tubes at the flange started cracking. They were 1 5/8 with 2 3/4 collectors. My new Hedmans are 1 5/8 and 1 3/4 with 3" collectors. No need to cut headers up. They are not cheap but they fit. With the port layout and the close proximity of the header bolts, some tubes you have to ding to get the bolts to fit.

Sean

slowpony 11-17-2014 10:22 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 453116)
It's looking like I will be purchasing a header then cutting flanges for individual tube mounting and cutting the primaries for slip-fit collectors.

Here you go Pony... http://www.ebay.com/itm/151471684683...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Thanks, those look better than anything else I've see and stainless to boot! I will be getting a set as soon as I pick up the car. BTW I am getting a 89 GT for Pure Stock this weekend!
Norman

Rory McNeil 11-18-2014 03:25 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
I haven`t tried any other headers yet, but on my 85 Mustang, I have a set of long tube "equal length" FlowTechs, which have 1 5/8" diameter. They fit well with the factory K member, clear my McLeod scattershield with no need for modifications, and they have a couple of slip tubes, but with the collectors welded to several tubes, no need for the collector tether nonsense. I install the engine with the passenger side header fully bolted up, with the clutch, scattershield, and starter motor installed, once the engines in, the drivers side header slips in from underneath, with 1 slip tube to clear the steering shaft. They even have decent ground clearance. The best thing is that they are priced less than most 5.0 "shorty" headers, plus they have O2 sensor bungs welded to the collectors. Great bang for the buck.

HandOverFist 11-22-2014 09:38 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
I'm not slacking folks...got the car home this afternoon with the roll bar welding finished.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd5d91eb1.jpg

Busted the front-end apart and I will remove the rubber bushings in the control arms in the morning. Need to locate some ball joints as one of the boots was torn. Once the front is done I can move toward getting that engine out. Btw, the spring compressor was a pita...a floor jack under the other control arm was much quicker/easier.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd6380b71.jpg

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps4579a05d.jpg

black88coupe 11-23-2014 07:49 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 453600)
a floor jack under the other control arm was much quicker/easier

Works like a charm.

Dave Gantz 11-23-2014 11:20 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by black88coupe (Post 453620)
Works like a charm.

Going back together w/ uncut drag springs is a different story, for sure!
I put a set of uncut Eibach drag springs in my 87. I think I used a combination of the compressor and the jack, starting the nut on the balljoint, then lining up the bolt holes in the bushings.
It ended up sitting too high.
I got greedy and cut 1 1/2 coils off, sat too low. It was a lot easier to get them in, though!
I found another set (Both sets were new, unused, bought from guys on The Corral.) and cut 1 coil. The height was good.
My car is not an all-out drag car. If it were, I'd be concerned that by cutting the springs, I increased the stiffness too much, reducing the effectiveness of the weight transfer.

HandOverFist 11-23-2014 08:40 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
I'll be using the compressor going back in with these 4-cylinder springs...hoping they will be right the first go round. Lots of weight coming off the front of this car...bought a manual rack yesterday which is supposed to be around 30 pounds reduction. Got hijacked today for a Chinese ping pong table assembly from hell...I will be working on the car this Thanksgiving holiday.

HandOverFist 11-27-2014 08:41 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
I elected to use the spring compressor today and the 4-cylinder springs went in easily. A-arm's don't swing as easily as I would like with these poly bushings, but they are not too bad. Front is done with the exception of Aerospace rotors and 4-piston calipers which are on the way...decided to use the same set-up as the Camaro. Finally snaked the front sway bar out of the car...geez what a chunk of metal. I'll be pulling the engine out in the morning and install the manual rack shortly after.


http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps5d72de8d.jpg


http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psb853974b.jpg


http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...psd691565c.jpg

black88coupe 11-27-2014 10:42 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by HandOverFist (Post 454087)
A-arm's don't swing as easily as I would like with these poly bushings, but they are not too bad.

How much did you tighten the bolts? I left my bolts snugged up a little them double nutted them. Wasn't bad that way at all. Project is coming along nicely.

HandOverFist 11-27-2014 11:21 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
I can probably back them off a little and add some nyloc's Mitch.... wanted some bearings but could not source any. Front sits well, just hoping the springs will let it separate easily.

ALMACK 11-28-2014 09:32 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Looks good Rich.

Dave Gantz 11-28-2014 10:51 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by black88coupe (Post 454100)
How much did you tighten the bolts? I left my bolts snugged up a little them double nutted them. Wasn't bad that way at all. Project is coming along nicely.

Gotta be careful with that. I was going to do that on my car, but I felt it would egg-shape the holes over time, as now the arms will pivot on the bolts and holes as opposed to the bushings. Possibly okay on a drag-only car, but I would inspect it regularly. I didn't do it because mine is a street-strip car and I felt they would wear too quickly and unnecessarily. Egg-shaped holes are a pita, street or strip, gotta weld and dress.

black88coupe 11-28-2014 11:59 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Gantz (Post 454121)
Gotta be careful with that. I was going to do that on my car, but I felt it would egg-shape the holes over time, as now the arms will pivot on the bolts and holes as opposed to the bushings. Possibly okay on a drag-only car, but I would inspect it regularly. I didn't do it because mine is a street-strip car and I felt they would wear too quickly and unnecessarily. Egg-shaped holes are a pita, street or strip, gotta weld and dress.

Didn't leave mine loose, Just didn't go too crazy tightenng them. And yes I rechecked them every oil change.

HandOverFist 11-28-2014 09:08 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Finally out of the hole. Manual rack and front brakes in the morning.


http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps96ac4017.jpg


http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/q...ps7e695e84.jpg

FireSale 11-28-2014 11:23 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
They sure put a lot of messy stuff under the hood of stocker don't they?

Dale

HandOverFist 11-28-2014 11:52 PM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FireSale (Post 454171)
They sure put a lot of messy stuff under the hood of stocker don't they?

Dale



It was a bit of a battle by myself...amazing how quickly things let go when you break out the die grinder/cut-off wheel. The one redeeming feature of this car is when you pull the transmission the engine doesn't drop backwards like it does in the Camaro...sits perfectly level on the K-member until it's plucked out.

Dave Noll 11-29-2014 02:29 AM

Re: Ford vs Chevy Build-up
 
If I could back up just a bit. How difficult was it to replace those control arm bushings ? I need to do that to my Cougar.


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