Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Got the converter from the kid and the wife questioned what it was ����
Got her calmed down over that but went on market place and saw a 9? centre section with 5:14 gears, just back from an axle shop, fresh rebuild, $500?. Ooh i need that too!

Went for a 2hr drive which turned into 4 hrs as buddy showed me his car collection.
Got the gears and while driving back to my kids, my friend back home called me and said a package from broader performance was delivered by ups.

So, i have the converter, valve body, new center section(might be 31 spline but i have a 28 spline coming)

Awesome 6 day vacation and its only the first day! ( course now i want to go home and get to back to work��������)

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

So, where to start...
Got home safe, all is good. Checked the spline in the center section and yes it's different. (I have stock 28 spline) So it's either 31 or 35, whatever, has to come apart. I have a 28 spline coming so no biggie.

Installed the reverse pattern valve body and everything is ready to go...(wait for it...)
Fixed the leak in the pan, dropped tranny and tried to pull it back enough to pull the converter. Converter is stuck to the flexplate, an hour later of prying and turning the engine, prying, turning. Of course I'm by myself so get out from underneath, go to the front and turn the engine 1/4 turn, get back underneath, pry, get out, LOL.
Got the converter off the flexplate, slid it out beside the new one...uh oh...bolt pattern different...I have a truck c/4 (pan fill) and the 11 1/2" flex plate, not the 10 1/2" car flex plate in a case fill c4.
Crap.
I have a c4 out back, I'll go to grab it....then I see the tarp is ripped, the dipstick tube is missing and it's full of water....sigh...

So...
Pull the car tranny apart and see if it's serviceable or trash.
Pull the reverse pattern valve body back out of the truck tranny and put it in the car one, IF, the car one is good.
Dig through my parts and see if I have a flex plate, right diameter and right weight.
Replace the front pump bushing with the one supplied by ATI.

Oh, you know there's more to come and I've got 2 weeks to the Open in Miramichi.....

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Got the tranny from out back, it's a case fill...with a 164 tooth bellhousing! Same as the pan fill is a 164 tooth flex plate.
I need a 157 tooth flex plate and bell housing which as far as I know only comes with case fill car transmissions.

Went up the road to a ford buddy and he has a c4 out of a 73 mustang/302 that he personally can verify it's original...it's a pan fill truck transmission with a small 157 tooth flex plate and smaller bellhousing!!

Holy CRAP!!! Nothing Ford does is the same from one minute to the next!

So I bought the transmission from him, now I have to go through it and install the reverse valve body, all I need now is the 157t flex plate. The one that came on the 302 we pulled this tranny from?? The bolts are rusted and rounded off holding the converter to the flex plate. So if I can't find another one from another local ford guy, I'll have to fight with that. The other option is order a new sfi spec flex plate..which I might do as well.

Nothing money won;t fix huh?


And then there were three.....

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Just remember, as a rule, a one piece rear seal is the 50 oz. imbalance, and the 2 piece seal is 28 oz.
Flexplates can be had in either configuration.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Thanks Phil, Yes i knew that as well. Why make it easy, right?lol!

157t 28oz
157t 50oz
164t 28oz
164 50oz

Divide all that by
1) pan fill
2) case fill

Chev guys have it so easy, lol!!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Well, I've always said that FFFFord guys are "different".

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Lol, different is a ?nice? term, lol!

Got the flex plate so tomorrow morning I?ll start at it again.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

I resemble that remark!!...:D

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

So, the pan fill, 28oz, 157t transmission turned out to be...a case fill with a plug where the dipstick tube goes. Just wow.
But it gets better, got it installed and the shifter linkage on the tranny is different than the old one so I'm modifying that to work. Went to bolt on the starter, one hole is stripped in the bell housing. Was going to drill/tap and put a bigger bolt in but instead cleaned up the bell and used a nut and bolt.

Seriously getting tired of this. Spending the whole summer in the garage 8-12hr's a day and ignoring everything else. Wife even commented I haven't even taken the tire chains off the tractor yet! lol.

Funny part was, I told the wife about the underdog escort that is for sale in florida and she said :just go buy it and race that, then we can do other stuff this summer too". She's not wrong.

Anyway, tranny and converter are in as well as the valve body so now it's just finishing it all up and then get to work on the rear end.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Yup, column shift uses a different "arm" than a floor shift trans, but aftermarket shifter may change things.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Hang in there

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Thanks Larry, I'm trying, but now I've got family coming from out of province and when they leave I'll have 3 days to do everything before the Open. I'm thinking it might not happen. The following weekend is another open 7hr's each way so I might try for that. Or...just go to my local track for a test and tune to sort the bugs all out before hitting any S/SS races.

Company coming wants to off road so I have 3 mud trucks to get ready before Monday now...and all my camera stuff and drone for my youtube channel as well....and of course we're on a lake so everyone will want to go in the boats.....busier now than before I retired, lol.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

That's your ticket, Jim. Get some good, solid runs in before you go S/SS racing. No rush. Remember the old Pennsylvania Dutch saying, "The hurrieder I go, the behinder I get."

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Story of my life! Lol!!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Can't get a break, lol...
Got the converter/transmission and valve body installed.
Got the 5.14's installed
Got header collectors fabbed up and installed

Fired it up and running like crap then quit. No gas in the tank? Whatever, filled it up and squirter is spraying weird. Pull carb and open it up and it is full of brown sludge from the gas tank...crap. Stripped carb and cleaned it, fired it back up, runs good again. (ordering a fuel cell over the winter)

Go through the gears, I have park/reverse/neutral/LOCKED UP/2nd/3rd.
Unhooked the shifter, maybe it's not "perfect"? Nope, same, it's the valve body or what I did or didn't do to it. It feels like a tranny brake, I gave it a bit of throttle and it was torquing against the converter. I ground out the 4 slots indicated and didn't grind the 2 for the tranny brake but maybe I screwed up?

So, once it cools, drain the tranny and pull the valve body to see what I did wrong. I also send a message to Broader performance to see if they can help diagnose it.

Unrelated but also a factor in getting this done, I was diagnosed with an "aggressive" cataract in my left eye and even had to go to emerg one day. Yesterday I found out my cousin (we are identical, everyone calls us twin cousins) has stage 4 cancer.

I always said I don't mind getting old, I just refuse to grow up. Well now, getting old is getting on my nerves too...

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Well...first gear is exactly like I have a tranny brake on. Pulled the valve body and stuck in the one out of the white mustang and it works fine (forward pattern with shift kit)
Pulled it back out, went over the valve bodies piece by piece (three of them, one stock, one with a shift kit and one with reverse valve body) all the springs and valve are correct. I've watched video's that broader said to watch and everything is exactly like the video.

Not going in the garage today.

Might modify the stock valve body according to the instructions and see if the second one turns out better than the first.....another day.

Fuel system is totally gummed up now. Bolts for the gas tank are rusted solid (why I never took it out originally) but I'll have to break/cut them off and drill/tap/fix whatever. I have another stock tank with a sump welded in, might use that or a cell, probably go with cell. My nice stocker carb is gummed with crap from the tank so everything has to come apart and be cleaned/replaced.

Could of bracket raced the blue mustang all summer if I wasn't addicted to stockers, lol!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Just so you know, unless things have changed since the last time I looked, you can use a cell in a "Stocker" but you can't modify the original tank!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

At least they give us all the option today (it wasn't always available). But, if you choose to install a cell, it is also required to remove the stock fuel tank.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Thanks guys, simplest things trip you up. Attention to detail and read the rules again, lol.
Fuel cell it is.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Here's a picture of my 79

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Hey Jim,

I will attempt to not write a whole book here, but will attempt to add a few suggestions since you have made the decision to make the tank to cell switch. Here is what I did.
Note: Our combos are very different (as mine is a 1980's pretty rudimentary EFI single point throttle body fuel injection system. Yours is not (but both our vehicle manufacturers have provided or not provided (depending on year produced), certain fuel system safety features that we may or may not be aware of when we start the process to delete and add to the "fuel system" we are allowed to convert/modify to achieve the switch to a cell.

I removed the tank and straps, fuel filler neck, and the associated in tank pump/ filter sock and upper tank vent and return line attachment and fuel filler neck and Grommet. I left the stock steel fuel lines and associated wiring alone at that point.

Then I stopped. I located (on ebay as dealers have pretty much sold off their old 1980's vehicle specific repair manual sets and they are plentiful and fairly cheap these days), a full set of vehicle specific repair manuals for my year, make, and model (including the complete chassis, trim, and wiring diagrams in a 3 book set for like $36.00 shipped). There were some surprises located in those books once I did a deep dive in that helped me make critical (as built safety items built into the existing fuel system I was not aware of prior to that date), decisions were soon made not to remove certain items or defeat their purpose in the name of safety.

I looked at the fuel system as a whole using the books as a reference and took pencil to paper then to diagram out both the as built system, and included a wiring diagram concerning the specific under dash to tank wiring and discovered a really important safety switch (a mercury activated rollover safety switch/relay), located under dash on passenger side. I then researched that particular safety feature and what it does and why (simply put key on the system pump is activated for the 3 second EFI pump prime, then turns over control to the ECM and PM.

But should the car be upended as in a rollover type accident and the key is on, and a tilt of the auto get to approx. 40 degrees of tilt or greater, the mercury rollover switch auto cuts off all power it the electric fuel pump.

At that point (I delved deep into the dash), not only located the switch, but took the time to test it to see if it still worked as designed by unbolting it from its position (hooking up a test light rig on the switch wiring output, went key on and then slowly rotated the switch to simulate an actual rollover...it worked flawlessly as built, and at about 38 degrees of tilt using a simple angle finder, key still on the mercury in the small glass bulb cutoff all power to the pump. I instantly made the decision to utilize in my second as intended design change diagram on paper the existing wiring system from battery all the way back to the removed tank location (to power my new Jegs pump and filter system), so as to not defeat that real world very important safety feature.

I looked at the real world as built system, the required NHRA minimum requirements and then on paper first re-engineered the final setup.

The new fuel cell was going into a hatchback car and required a bulkhead both top and bottom to isolate it from drivers compartment and from track/car debris, and even though the fuel cell came with an internal rollover valve on the vent line (that satisfied the NHRA rule), I went one step further and added another external rollover after the vent line exited the spare tire well.

Also pay attention to the NHRA required grounding between fuel cell and frame. In my case that it is a poly fuel cell and powder coated cell straps. And in my case I made sure to sand off an area of the strap between the poly cell (so cell makes direct grounding contact with the strap then where my grounding wire is attached between strap and frame was also a sanded area devoid of powder coating and then before filling the celI I tested the ground continuity.

It was a big deal, lots of research of rules, lots of tedious work, the work on paper before ordering anything was a key to a smooth result and a great new fuel system that in my case solved a long standing performance issue I had with the car prior...but that is a different story that is in my build thread.

Good luck on the work ahead.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Yes, it ended up another novel. Sry.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

All good, thanks for the response! Two heads are better than one so I listen and learn from everyone. I have been avoiding the garage the last couple of days because I have so much other stuff going on. Have to put the tranny pan on and fill it..AGAIN and see if my latest "spring/valve/grinding slots/holes" recheck did anything. Not gonna lie, it's taken the wind out of my sails, so to speak. When I blew up the 3rd engine in 4 years, I parked it for 27 years. Not there yet but the "honeymoon" of having a stocker is quickly wearing off. I have another mustang (stock 86lx with 90,000km's original) that I have raced and could of bracket raced all summer, but I've been focused on the stocker and have been to the track once this year.

All that to say, I'll get back on it, but my motivation to hit the last race of the year in a couple weeks is waning.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Ok, time for an update. Pulled the valve body and took it to a performance tranny shop, got it back with "everything is exactly like it should be". Put it back in and still have PNN123.

So, probably pull it again and maybe send it back to Broader in Texas. Thought I done something wrong but several people have looked at it and nobody has an answer.

I was going to leave that and start pulling the gas tank but a dozen other jobs have taken priority since race season is over.

In other news...another 79 302 with the right intake and heads on it found it's way home with me for $100.

This is something else I do...off road youtube channel. This is us wheeling at my cousins in NB. (private property 400+ acres)
https://youtu.be/nUKy27lAXHs

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Thanks for sharing...did you think @ someone in the states ordering your comp cam for you?

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Just letting you know I ENJOY your running commentary

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Glad someone is, wife can?t stand it 😂😂.

Rolled under it again and pulled the valvebody. Stuck in another i had that already has a shift kit, but is forward pattern. I was going to send it to Broader but we haven?t had mail for a few weeks now🙄🙄 can?t make this up?

With the forward valvebody in it, fired up and all gears are good. PRND21

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Been a long winter...So, now I've got cataracts in both eyes (waiting for surgery) Brother in law who is legally blind and mentally handicapped moved in with us as his mother went to a home. Life has changed...Since I have a milling machine, I needed a metal lathe, so I built one! Of course I needed to buy a lathe to finish it so now I have two, LOL! I'm definitely a mechanic, not a machinist though, lol.

But, in between a million other things, I decided that since pulling the reverse pattern valve body 5 times, went over it and over it, took it to a performance transmission shop and still.....no bueno. So, put the forward pattern valve body back in (with the shift kit in it) and was going to rebuild/replace the b&m shifter or the hurst or something to work and instead said why do it the easy way, LOL!

So instead, since I have a milling machine, I made my own shift gate for the stock shifter. Now thumb button in, first to second, button out, second to drive, in, out, in, out from 1st to park. Made a template out of aluminum then transferred it to steel.

Again, mechanic, not machinist, lol!

Next up is pull the fuel tank/etc.

Long time between updates but hoping to hit a non-S/SS race end of May just to find out what else I missed. Looking at the driveshaft, I'm thinking it's out of the tail of the tranny quite a bit..oh yeah, I moved the rear end around when I welded on the ears. (yes the wheelbase is stock) Driveshaft is out of a 4 door maverick because that was what I had..build one to fit?...that doesn't sound like me. LOL.

More to come.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Yes, I got the cam and carb from Mike Graham and the converter from Dave Turner. Also picked up a set of 5:14 gears to replace my worn out 4:86's. (as in WORN OUT!!)

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Shifter is done, works great (until I get to the track?? LOL) While underneath I took another look at the driveshaft. I'm assuming it's when I put the adjustable upper arms on, but, regardless, the driveshaft is only engaged about 2" and there is 2" sticking out. I can wiggle it so I don't like it.
Went to pull the driveshaft and couldn't turn it...in neutral..got a power bar and went on a wheel nut, the sound of rust breaking free and voila, a free spinning rearend. The back brakes were rusted to the drums I guess, crazy humidity here.

So, got the driveshaft out and picked through the pile. Got a stock mustang driveshaft (about 6" longer than the 76 maverick shaft that was in it) So now I have to call A&J automotive to see where to get a driveshaft cut/balanced.

One step ahead, two steps back, lol!

I'll get the fuel system ripped out someday, have a doctors appointment this afternoon so I'm done for the day I guess.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Driveshaft dropped off at A&J Automotive for shortening and balancing.

That should be done next week some time, so in the meantime, next is pulling the fuel system. Was going for a fuel cell but I have a factory tank with a rear sump I forgot about. Might put that in, I'll burn that bridge when I get to it, LOL!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

You can't use a modified factory tank in Stock

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Sure you can , but you can not let anyone see it OR tell everyone on the internet about it …..

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Really? Crap...and I have the rule book on my phone and on the computer....dad used to say "doesn't cost a thing to pay attention".

Ok then, Clean the one on it or go back on marketplace I guess.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

BWAHAHAHA...I'm too stupid to be dishonest, can't keep my mouth shut. If I was 2cc under I'd ask "does it have to be right on"?

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Finally a productive day!!

-Went to Armstrong's and picked up my driveshaft and installed it.

-Drained the fuel and pulled the tank, tried to pressure wash it. Of course the cord broke second pull...got a roll of starter rope and fixed it. Once pressure washed, set it in the sun until dry then reinstalled it. Dumped the old somewhat dirty fuel in my truck, it'll burn it, LOL!

-Pulled the carb and cleaned it and reinstalled it.

As you can see on the tailgate and ground, it was full of crap!

Tomorrow I'll get fresh gas and see if I can fire it up for the first time in 6 months or so.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

....one step ahead...several back..fired it up, got a vacuum leak under the carb, no biggie, fix that in a minute. Ran it through the gears with my new shifter gate, all seems well. Shut it off because the new mechanical temp gauge doesn't seem to be reading. Temp gun says water coming out of the engine is 140 and the gauge hasn't moved off of 0???
Weird, whatever, fired it back up with pump and fans going...ummm....I got no gears????
As in NOTHING...

Shut it off, closed the hood, closed the garage...never even went out today.

I'll go back when I am calmer and reseal the carb and then see if I have oil pressure coming out of the cooler line. All the gears in the shifter line up perfectly with the detents in the transmission (not in between any gears) "free pin fit" in each gear.

Frustrated with this car! FIGHTS EVERY STEP OF THE WAY!!

Had my pastor tell me one time "if you ask for patients, God doesn't give you patients, he puts you in situations so you can learn to be patient" Great point, this thing is really, REALLY teaching me to be patient, LOL!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Another step ahead, 6 back....

Ignition - turns out, my adjustable timing light is bad. Timing all messed up, engine wouldn't run right. After confirming the timing marks on the engine, I had to ignore the light and time by ear. Running great but I'll get a light and do it right. (need a light, bad)

Carb - had a vac leak, got a new carb gasket and seems to have fixed it. (Yay, good)

Temp gauge - had it running and noticed the brand new heat gauge I put in last year...isn't working! Used the heat gun on the hoses etc to confirm temp, gauge stays at zero. Canadian tire(china) temp gauge. Still have to fix that. (need gauge, bad)

Transmission - holy crap...Fired it up, go through the gears, nothing, left it in 1st and blipped the throttle, tire starts tuning backward, then stops and then starts rolling forward. Run through the gears and it rolls a bit then stops. As in, nothing. Yes the flex plate and converter are spinning. Yes the converter went in 3 clicks and had to be pulled out 1/8" to bolt to the flex plate. Yes there is lots of oil in it (maybe a litre or two high)
Next I'll pull a line off and see if there is oil pressure going to the cooler. If there is pressure, I'm going to have to pull the valvebody off again (7th-8th time??) and put in a completely stock one to test/confirm it. Hate to have to pull the tranny out again.

This car absolutely fights every step of the way. Finally got the timing and carb right, went to start to confirm and the new battery was dead!! Can't make this up!

Anyway, I'll fight that fight tomorrow I guess.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

I pulled the cooler lines off and fired it up...nothing. So I guess my front pump is gone? The converter went in 3 clicks, fully seated so not sure what happened.
So, tomorrow start draining it and pull it out. Take it to a local performance auto transmission shop and get it rebuilt. This tranny was sitting for some years before I got it, maybe the seals all dried up?? Who knows, but maybe this was part of my reverse pattern valvebody issue. Don't think so because when I initially put this regular valve body in, it worked fine. Anyway, looks like the tranny is coming out tomorrow.....again....sigh.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Pulled the tranny this morning and dropped it and the converter off at a local performance transmission shop, they said 3 weeks.

Hurry up and wait...flashbacks to the army, lol!