Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

I wanna be in the Patina Nationals! Quick, someone find a 78 Grill and 2bbl turbo setup!

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

I went to The Beav yesterday with 3 sets of front tires to see what I could learn from it. The wind was terrible and moving all around so 1/4 mile times and MPHs were all over and there weren't any 330s to boot!
I'm not a machine like Beardie, just a crazy old man trying to learn something so I made all of my runs "bottom bulbing". At any rate, I had 23, 27.5 and 29 inch dia. tires for my test and came to the conclusion that the RTs with the 23s were .009 quicker that the 27.5s and the 27.5s were .008 quicker than the 29s. The one thing that is throwing me for a loop with this is that the 60 ft times were quicker by .024 with the 23s than they were with the 29s with the 27.5s .005 quicker than the 29s! The car was really low in the front with the 23s and it does have an airdam so maybe that had something to do with it? The 1/8 mile times were .037 better with the 29s that with the 23s which I could see. As usual, any insight will be appreciated!
One thing that I AM going to do to this thing before I bring it out again will be to find some way to make a coil spring car react more like a leaf spring car! I'm in a very awkward place on the tree right now with it.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Well, other than slowing down the lift rate and killing some frontend travel, I didn't have any time this week to do anything. I did manage to get it to a comfortable spot on the tree where I'm at least mid to high .040s. Not good but better. I really need to find some time to address the rear suspension. I'm also getting really bored so I'm going to start throwing some parts at this thing the next time that i take it out!

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Would air bags help with the launch? Maybe a cheap set of air shocks?

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Got air shocks. If I don't have the time to get creative this week I'll probably stick a set of no-hop bars on it.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

solid bushed upper and lower control arms?
or have you done did dat?

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Certainly. The 60' beams are significantly higher than the rest of the incrementals, so it's pretty easy to pick them up with a spoiler or air dam. The quicker incrementals at the other clocks with the taller tire are a result of the additional rollout. You can stage a car crooked and pick up ET (with a slower R/T). Might not want to do it with a fast wheelstander, though. ;-)

When I had 23" fronts on the Volare, I had a breakout run against Eberst: showed more stripe than what I took, picked up a little ET and MPH. What's tripping on a VOLARE?!? I crawled under the car and started measuring things... sure enough, there was a suspension piece on the driver's side that was juuuuust low enough to trip the finish when I lifted, at least with those lil' donuts on the front.

With the Turismo, the 60' times can be dramatically different from track to track, depending on how high they have them set up. At the finish line, the nose will go over the beams, but even just lifting is enough to drop the nose into the beam, picking it up .03 and 3 mph. At Pittsburgh, my 1/8th mile ET's were fine, but the MPH was wacky lane to lane, showing that it was tripping the MPH start beam with the nose in one lane, but the tire in the other lane. I run a stripe taker when bracket racing it, but can't in Stock, so I drop the nose at the stripe on every single run. Wanna slow down? Keep your foot in it! ;-) Kinda like driving a rear-steer firetruck. LOL Even with the tall tire, you'd better bounce the front end hard with someone watching underneath with a tape measure to see if it might trip under hard braking. Finish line is about 5-5/8". Likewise, you should always check your opponent's car for what's tripping where.

Remember you used to tell me about Rusty Canfield's Charger running the same ET but changing 3 mph depending on whether or not you had the rear spoiler on? That's very likely what you were seeing: just a matter of whether the nose was tripping this beam vs that beam (or not).

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Quote:Remember you used to tell me about Rusty Canfield's Charger running the same ET but changing 3 mph depending on whether or not you had the rear spoiler on?

Michael,I saw that 1st hand years ago when Junior had the car.He wanted to win class so I took it off,we also ditched the fugazy 1960's air cleaner.He picked up 3 mph,don't remember
how much ET.I think he bulbed in class.Not sure.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

I'm not a real fan of solid suspension and body bushings and having them in this car wouldn't affect the cars reaction time the amount that I'm looking for.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Now that the first $1000 has been very creatively spent.

What would the next $1000 investment look like?

D

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Send Billy a check and your question will be answered.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

You first !

D

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Dan he retired fixed income lol

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

That's a good question! If I were to do it the right way then I guess that I would probably go with an 8" converter and some trans upgrades. I don't always do things the right way though. I want to address the rear suspension to make the car more driveable(for me) and I have a couple of things that I'm going to throw at it this weekend to try and learn something.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Just like Hymie Roth.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Lol

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

No you did what I would have done.

Have to make it safe and reliable first.
Then throw at it what you have.

Too many add the power first.
Forgetting they have to stop.

Making a lot of runs without breaking saves a lot of frustration.

D

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

I finally took the time to "back-to-back" sparkplugs on Saturday and I was a bit suprised at my findings. When I put the car together, I put in the least expensive plugs that W-Mart had. Just basic plugs. I did an A-B-A-B test between them and a set of iridium plugs that I have used in some of my other stuff. So can a $16 set of plugs perform as well as a set of $64 plugs? Not quite, the iridium plugs averaged .034 ET. and .3 MPH faster than a basic plug. Are they worth the extra $48? In a heads-up or qualifying situation I guess they are. You decide.
I also took my junk-yard headers off and put on a set of mine and found !!!!!!!!!! that I really have to do some carburetor work to get my stuff to work on this car. The car went the same ET. and over .5 MPH faster but it wasn't happy leaving the line.
Another job for another day!

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

WOW, great thread Billy, it has inspired me building my 65 Impala. I can't afford to have people do the work, not too sure I would want to anyway. With my 68 Impala Ii built I taught myself how to weld and use a lathe and bridgeport. Learned how to degree a cam, body work & paint (only "race car : quality, "20 footer") ect, ect. I am finding building the 65 Impala is easier because of what i learned from the 68. Please keep it this thread up!

Will Lamprecht
"Tuns of Fun" 65 Impala I/S

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Hey Neil, guess what "issue" I finally started having this weekend? I guess that I must be making progress! Last time out, I put my headers on the car and I started having problems launching the car. At any rate, different carb and I'm running the same ET and MPH but I'm still a tenth slow in 60'. I'll get it figured out next week at a T+T(I hope!).

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Billy, I don't know if you got Neil's suggestion for that , but it might be worth a "dam".

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

I spent some time in the garage yesterday and think that I found my problem! I've obviously developed a case of CRS! I've found a self-inflicted issue, fixed it and will be heading out to "The Beav" for a T+T in a couple of hours. I feel very confident that I'll see some positive results. Stay tuned!

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Billy, that CRS stuff gets worse.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Can't wait to hear your results from today!

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Billy how did the weekend testing turn out ?

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

I got wet and aggravated and it looks like more of the same for today!
Maybe I'll go out tomorrow for a race day but I probably won't be testing anything.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

I'd like to start by getting a few things off my chest.
I don't like testing on a raceday and yet I still(after all of these years) do it!
Anybody who has been anywhere near me within the last couple of weeks could tell you all why I've never suggested that any sane person try and build a 301 Pontiac without a hairdryer on it!
When an engineer who worked on the design of the engine you're trying to make go faster asks you "what kind of RPM do you think that you're going to have to spin this to?" cringes and says "well, good luck with that!" when you tell him, a sane person should hear alarms go off!
One last thing, the next time that your buddies tell you that Stock and SS racing isn't rocket science, stare them in the face and explain to them that it's much harder!

I finally managed to get the GP to go all of the way down the track yesterday and I have finally realized where and what the problem is and it's one of those things that can't really be fixed, but maybe it can be manipulated enough to get this thing to work.
To make a long story short, I have managed to get the pulse resonance in my intake way out of sync with my valve timing. Putting my headers on the car has really aggravated the problem and I have run into it before with this engine. By moving the cam around I've been able to get the car back to where it was before I changed the headers. Something else that should get a chuckle out of anyone who hasn't played with a 301 is I'm shifting the car at 4000 RPM now and it likes it. Kinda like playing with a diesel!

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Billy
Will we be getting a monday morning update on your progress?
Will you be going to numidia for the s/ss race in sept. and/or
the dutch with the car?

Joe

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

When all else fails, throw parts(and money) at it!
Ouch, it hurt to say that! The time has finally come to make some moves and try some things other than tuning around what I have. My 10" torque converter that has served me well in getting under the index for under a grand is just not giving me the flexibility to try things that need to be tried to get to the next level of this project. It will have a place of honor on my shelf waiting for another project, but for now it has to go.
I spent friday evening putting the 8" converter out of my GP in the 1K car and getting ready to hit "The Beav" on saturday( another race day, argh).
To make a long, boring story short, after making 2 TTs and arguing with the DualJet, I finally got it to agree to not stumble and made a couple of very nice passes. Going back to one of my previous posts, the converter proved to be worth the investment as the car picked up between 2 and 2.5 tenths. In less than great air( no barometer) the car made it's best Beaver Springs pass by 1.5 tenths(much better if I figured the air difference), it equaled it's best BSD MPH( into a 5-10 MPH headwind) and it ran it's absolute best 60' by .05. The 8" flashes about 800 RPM higher on the hit and is more efficient in high gear. I did have to go back to my light governor to get my shift points higher as it was falling too far back into the converter on the shifts. Before I try throwing a different cam in it, I'd like to try retarding this one a bit more but that will have to wait until after the Cecil County points race. Keep an eye on DRC to see if I can get it a little further up the Q-sheet and maybe learn how to drive again.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Well done Billy!

What was your best E.T. this weekend?

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Glad to hear your progress.
I took off from work Saturday to attend Cecil County for my yearly pilgramage to see this race. Stockers to the lanes!!!!!!!
I look forward to seeing your car Billy, and meeting you of course.
Chris.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

I'd say the changes are working well !!

55 1188 U/SA Billy Nees, Millmont PA, '79 Grand Prix 14.525 14.85 -0.325

#55 out of 63 after two sessions.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Nice!

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Mike I talked to Billy on weds. this week and he told me that after how he did at the beav this past weekend, he figured he would run 60's and if weather stayed like it was on weds. he would go into the 40's. I have known Billy since the 70's and he never ceases to amaze me. Also I saw on another thread that you are doing well with your MS. Congrats they have come along way with research, and you have a positive attitude which will work in your favor.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Thanks Bob. Yes, I am blessed to do as well as I am, three years in.

I drove for Billy for four years, in his HF/SA and his turbo'd AF/S (now a BF/S). Both '85 Sunbirds with 1.8L 110 cid 4 cylinders. The HF/SA is what I made my name in back in the day. If not for Billy, I wouldn't have had HALF the fun in this sport I have over the years. Penny Bender (Bob's wife) is racing that car now (In EF/S) at Cecil this weekend as well.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Billy, nice picture on DRC of your beat-up old junk. Can you take out one of those $150,000 Factory Cars in the finial for me? Please!

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Penny is doing a great job and having a lot of fun.

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Its amazing how good he really is, he can make almost anything work and even to this day helps everybody he can if they are willing to listen. I lived in Mine Hill N.J. about 4 blocks from Billy's dads Gulf station. I first started with an E/MP Camaro that Billy bought from me and then had a F/G Vega that is in my avatar at Island. I think he ran that Camaro in S/ST in the 70's. My first ride with an automatic race car was in the Brat at Island at a nostalga race , he drove the Green Nova. I never thought an automatic could leave like a third pedal car, what a shock. Also one time he was having a problem with The Gang Green 57 he had, and I took it down the track and came back with the shifter in my hand, the look on his face was priceless and something I will remember forever. Hopefully I get to meet you someday because I'm sure you will have some good stories. By the way Billy calls me Grandpa

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Here is the link to Billy's photo... Hey Billy if you get that plastic piece on the right side the car should pick up .000001 e.t & .00002 mph. I think a piece of card board box put in there should work (it's free):D

http://dragracecentral.com/DRCPhoto....75563#indextop

Onto the second round great job

Re: Under the index for under a grand!
 

Well Billys going on to rd 3 keep it going.