Was it just me?
 

To everyone that attended the Route 66 Nationals and the Division 3 race:
Not considering wind and weather, was it just me or were there anybody else struggling with inconsistant lights and timing issues? I am not complaining, just curious and wondering if my stuff is junk now.

Bighead

Re: Was it just me?
 

I dont think I would trade my stuff in yet. I talked to a lot of others with simular issues. Our only problem was our starter falling off before the finals! P.S. THANX for the help!!! Also Thanx again to the Torres Family for there effort as well.

Re: Was it just me?
 

Big Head ,,,

I'm glad you posted that question ,,,, I was able to get a handle on the weather, wind , humidity,etc....
But my lights were horrifying to say the least !!

I red lighted in the first round at the Nationals the week before with a .002 RED,,,,,,
Put the car away , left it at the track , come back a week later and go .051 ,, .051 , roll out some numbersand go .048, roll out some more and go .047 ,,,, got to the 5th round ( Dark squirl finding a nut ) roll out some more and go .038 ,,,,, what gives ?? I know I'm bad but was I that bad ??

I also looked at some of the other racers and they seemed to be all over the place ?
Before I make any changes ,,, I do plan to go out and test , test , test ,,,,,,

So fellow racers was it me , my car or the track ,,,,,????

Colorful Racer

Re: Was it just me?
 

Bighead, when Iran you 1st rd I didn't know where that 50 came from.
The finals in the Allstar race really baffled me. If you see the tv coverage I didn't look late
I was 008 013 -002 and 50 last week
Was 24 008 and 72 in Allstar race.
Nice to meet you anyway.
Carl root

Re: Was it just me?
 

Carl:

I sent you a pm yesterday. Anyway, I cannot ever remember being so lost racing than the last two or three weeks. I even bought new tires/wheels, changed delay boxes and still was having problems. With the same delay I was 051, 050, 003, 005, 018 in super comp but my sixty was all over the place. I ran the 3rd round and the 5th round in the right lane within 45 minutes and went 1.40 and 1.43 in super comp although the weather/wind stayed almost the same and in the 4th round lost 07 hundreds in e.t.. I had similiar results in gas. Crazy stuff.........

Bighead

Re: Was it just me?
 

I'm glad you posted this Craig....(as usual, it was great to see you) ...I have never seen a string of lights like we had....there is no way I missed it 7 out of 9 runs in eliminations....there had to be something funny with the timing system......the performance on the track was ok but the reaction times were our worst ever....I was 40's and 50's...and I had less delay than when I went red in the shootout...and last weekend....???

CBS

Re: Was it just me?
 

I didnt make the division race but at the national I know everyone was slow . My 30 lights should have been .00s . I also had a 60 something in the third round (didnt know how) .The last two rounds I just had to try something different and roll in a little . If I would have had anything left to rollout of my box I would have been reluctant to .

Re: Was it just me?
 

My time runs and the All Star race all made sense at the National event (.004, .009, .015, .002, .009, .015)... The light was pretty much exactly what I wanted within a couple thousandths.

1st round of the National Event I had some wierd fluky deal where I was -.002 red, set up to be teen and all my incrementals were .025+ slow. On the data recorder the G-Meter was within 0.03 G's, the driveshaft was exactly the same and the engine RPM/stop RPM was exactly the same. If I was going to lose all that ET, I'd be able to see it on the data. Basically the timing system just thought I left before I did, from what I can tell.

Carl.. I went back and slow mo'd the final from the Allstars race to see what I could find. There were 6 frames on my DVR from the time my car started to move until the time your car started to move. If each frame is a hundredth (which I have no idea of the exact measurement) then that would make sense.

You know, this drag racing thing's hard enough without tree/timing system issues. We have a hard enough time deciphering the data we can see, nevermind the intangibles like that. Glad you brought it up Craig...

Re: Was it just me?
 

Mike, I was afraid to slo mo the final.
Nice job last weekend , you're on a roll.
Craig checked my pm, thanks.

Re: Was it just me?
 

Mike:

Believe this if you will, our videos were showing the car leaving the beams the same, usuall 5-6 frames and my reaction times were 6-8 frames and as you stated, that should equate to roughly be .000 - .030 in reaction times, not .050 - .070 lights. We have a new high-def camera and it is exactly the same frame time, video after video. After talking with a friend that is involved in electronics at NHRA and NMRA events he told me that it could be as simple as a lazy infrared or the infrared is turned down on sensitivity? What would be cool is for racers to have the ability to approach race control with accurate information and have these problems fixed before first round. I hope no one takes this as belly aching, bashing anyone, or anything else, just curious........

Bighead

Re: Was it just me?
 

At a bracket race 3 weeks ago at Rt 66
I went .029 red with .030 in the box and then went .386 60ft. 1.450@330
4.123@ 660 7.133@1000 and 10.886 @ 128.43

Went to the tower and was told the main system showed the same thing
Must have been a glitch.... Houston we have a Problem!!!!!!

I went up next round and had .045 in the box and went .023 red.
i put another .020 in the box for 1ST Round and went .009 red.
I talked to about 9 guys that all went red in the right lane 1st round and all had almost double the normal time in the box.

At the nationals and Div I was dead on the tree
went .00's in trials and then .038 first round with .045 in the box
Then took .015 out of the box and went .005 red second round to Marcus Bush... my fault on that one!

The Div lights where very consistent until the 2 round on Sunday... .098
I messed up big time rolled in to deep and then the car rocked forward and i thought i was going to deep stage and then just sat and watched Dunkin drill me .... Oh well Stanton here we come!!!!!!

Normally Rt 66 is very good with the tree..but it seems the last couple of races for the brackets it has been hit and miss for a lot of us.

Re: Was it just me?
 

I had the same problems eveything made sense at the nats, I was hitting the tree in both cars, 60 foots were right on. But at the div race lites were ok 1st time run then right into the dumper. Rest of the lites in the upper 20's and 30's. With alot out of the box. Second round in S/G had a 70 lite lost 4 1/2 in 60 foots also, and the S/C car fell off a ton 2 round.
Boo Boo
31s/g
38s/c

Re: Was it just me?
 

For me, the timing equipment seemed good for the national and divisional. Other than round one on sunday, when I ran slow. I didnt think I missed the prediction that badly, but I could have. On the first weekend the MWSC was at 66, I felt the timing system was messed up. Usually my 60 fts are within a hundreth but that day, I was off by 4 hundreths. From one time run to the next, I lost 3 mph at the finish line and my 660-1/4 was off by 6 hundreths when they usually at the worst, vary by around a hundreth or so. On that run, my 1/8 mph was good and I had a 4 hundreths quicker 60 ft. Granted there was a stiff wind that day, but the next weekend, we also had similar wind conditions and my runs were back to normal. I saw nothing on the data recorder that would suggest that a car problem was causing my inconsistancies. I have a guy who works for me that races bikes, and himself and several of the bike riders have gotten weird numbers too.

I can understand why you went red in the shootout Rock, you were intimidated.LOL
and I was dang lucky.

Re: Was it just me?
 

that was my only run with a light below 20.....something was definitely wrong.....

of course I was intimidated.....

but I don't think that had anything to do with my light.....I was 20 best...rolled 3 in and went 2 thou red....

explain that one...

Re: Was it just me?
 

You suck? :D

Re: Was it just me?
 

I couldn't drive a hot nail into a snowbank.......

Re: Was it just me?
 

to bad no one brought this to my attention at the national event, set up on the startline was great every morning, to fix things i need info like this at the event to be able to find any issues.
I really only look at the numbers randomly through out the day. I do follow the PS numbers very close every qualifing round and saw no issues with their RTs or 60', did have 1 FC run that was brought to my attention monday that was way long on RT and short on 60'
Jeff Foster

Re: Was it just me?
 

Jeff
In the future where do we locate you at? Where you at the Div race this last weekend?.
It is good to see someone respond that is in the know!!!!!

Re: Was it just me?
 

Not at Divisionals only Nats, ask any NHRA official they can find me.

Re: Was it just me?
 

Jeff,

We have been doing this a long time and have made thousands of hits....so when things don't add up its clearly evident....we may miss the tree once or twice....but not 6 times in a row.....

so there was definitely something not quite right....different is fine...but inconsistent is bad...

we get so few hits at a national...so far apart its hard to tell sometimes...but we made 14 runs at the

Divisional.....not to mention the right lane is quite a bit tighter than the left.....

Rock Haas

Re: Was it just me?
 

I am not sure if anyone has seen the pics or not. I have the picture of pete and Sal racing in comp.
Pete was 2ft ahead and sal got the win. The ESPN guys told sal about it.
I have the pics, also have the pic of me .0006 behind Erks 1st rd of the all stars, Funny thing , looks to me like I was 8 inches ahead. We were still about 4" from the stripe with the pic so who knows on my run.
I would post them here but I do not know how. I will Gladly e-mail them to someone that knows how to post them.

my e-mail is Mike@nitroplate.com

The pics are interesting to say the least.

Mike Fuqua
615-824-2811
www.Fuquatoolanddie.com

Re: Was it just me?
 

Photos from Mike Fuqua
http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g.../fuquaerks.jpg

http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/g...3/fuquasal.jpg

Re: Was it just me?
 

The quote of all quotes. Rock you are so very true......

Bighead

Re: Was it just me?
 

Look at the pics closely, look at the painted lines on the wall, they are not straight. They are angled to the left at the top. Also look at the fence posts. The left ones angle to the left. The ones in the center appear to be straight up and the ones to the right appear to be angled to the right. I remember reading somewhere about how pixels are stacked or something, I cant remember , but I thought that the accuracy of still pics taken from video was off. In the 2nd pic, is it possible that the front of the roadster was higher than the beams and the first thing that the beam saw was the wheels? I still agree that 66 has some type of timing issue.

Re: Was it just me?
 

Rock guys are saying they saw it at the nats. but no one as far as I know mentioned it to anyone at the race where I could have looked at it.
As for the 2 pictures, the lines on the wall and ground are refreance points the painters rarely get the lines dead in line with the sensors. As for the bottom photo it looks like the front bumper is higher than the beams, so the nose of Sals car got there before the tires of the roadster.

Re: Was it just me?
 

Jeff:

Check your p.m.

Bighead

Re: Was it just me?
 

It was definitely there at the nats.....we didn't know that there was an avenue for questioning it....

Jeff I think we can all thank you for posting and giving us some insight on the situation....without I-card we can't see everybody's times...so it probably wasn't as known to everybody...because racers don't always go around telling everyone that they can't get a light or whatever....till after the race....when everyone starts talking....like what's happening right now....

(I know Craig was frustrated because he didn't mow down the barbequed fish we made....)

Many of us have data on our cars....and we were shaking our heads at some of our runs.....I'm thinking there was 3 or 4 hundreds varibility.....in some cases....

thanks again Jeff ...and if it happens again we will present you with our data so you can look into it properly....

Rock Haas

Re: Was it just me?
 

Is it a shadow or does Pete have something hanging at the front of his car to trip the lights.

to me there looks like a plate in the center of the car at the most forward point.

Refresh my memory... the finish line lights are 6" up and the starting line is 3"?
I think that is right or do i have it reversed.

Re: Was it just me?
 

Finish line 5 to 5 1/2 inchs up, start line 1 5/8

Re: Was it just me?
 

Rock

Besides what our buddies in Lowsy Anna have cooked, that was the best fish I've ever eaten, honestly. Hope ya'll enjoyed the taters' and corn. By the way, what you asked me about got taken care of today, via a phone call from them. Thanks again, I owe ya one.

Bighead

Re: Was it just me?
 

I watched my Allstars loss a few times in slow motion . Jeff got the stripe by .006 ! On the video (from tv) I saw that he had it by half a tire (both of us tripping the beams with the tires). It looks to me that the nose of Sal's car tripped the beams but Pete's tire did .

Re: Was it just me?
 

I guess this proves the effectiveness of the so-called "stripe taker".....

Do you guys really want the timing system messed with in the middle of a race? Say it gets looked at after a couple of time runs and determined a fix is needed before elims....I guess you would have to give everyone 1 more time shot? It's a pretty crappy and touchy situation.
I am interested in how the timing system is prepared before each event, is the height and distance between the beams checked at both ends each race? Are the dimensions of the projected beam measured? Are the lenses cleaned at the beginning of each day? Is the resistance checked?

man I hate computers....

-steve

Re: Was it just me?
 

Steve

All very good questions. Working on the timing system could be compared to every day maintenance on our race cars. If something is broke, fix it, even between rounds. There is no perfect answer to your question, we can only hope that during a race if there appears to be an electronics glitz/glitch?, that we as racers would have the oppurtunity to present some credible evidence that there may be a problem. I felt helpless last weekend and thought my stuff was broke. The track and electronics should be maintained and checked and verified every morning before any car goes down the track, but if everyhing "seems" ok then why check it? Nothing frustates me more than testing Thursday before an event, only to find out they changed the roll out or reaction time compensation Friday morning.

Bighead

Re: Was it just me?
 

At National events both NHRA and IHRA we Compulink are under contract to be on site for the event for the event. This includes coming in 2 days prior to the event and doing what we call a track tune-up.
This includes but is not limmited to: removing, cleaning, repairing, testing and re-seting all IRs. Fininsh line hights are set, start line roll-out measued set and equalized lane to lane. Go through all wiring and compents, update and check CPU programs and files. Every morning after the track is sprayed IrRs and reflectors are cleaned.
A start line IR can look just fine when tested and while setting roll out. If it is getting weak it is some times hard to detect until cars are showing bad times, sometimes Iam lucky and when they get weak it shows in the roll-out test, but many times it doesnt appear until the vibration of the car is inclded into the process.
Antime your at a National event and want to join me at 5:30 am as I clean and check the roll-out come out (just bring doughnuts or muffins, LOL)
Jeff Foster
Compulink

Re: Was it just me?
 

Jeff

I will be out there Saturday morning at Norwalk. I would like to see how the prep is done and see how the roll out works. Do you want coffee too?
Everyone knows i will bring the Doughnuts!!! For i am the Doughboy!

Thanks

Re: Was it just me?
 

That is why we need ICARD back on. With my software I could tell which lane was the problem with evidence. Now they can hide the problems because nobody knows any better.

Re: Was it just me?
 

Doughboy! You Rock! Where's the Crown Royal!!!

Re: Was it just me?
 

Thanks for the update Jeff....I suspect the starting line photo cells were suspect in Joliet ...I bet they are difficult to detect....I wonder if the manufacturer has a testing method for the strength of the eye...and if that could be added to your morning routine..maybe some sort of hand held receiver that could be held in front of the eye with a meter on it...so it checked the strength and diameter at distance...I guess it still wouldn't add the car vibrations....(Craig Anderson's big power engines probably made it worse) ..Compulink is still the best in our book.....we have had a few isolated incidents...but nothing compared to the other brand....I think, in the future we will be more aware of what can happen and who can fix it....

Now can we get back to that Erks-Fuqua race....can't we get that one reversed.....JK Ronnie...

CBS

Re: Was it just me?
 

Don I take major offence to that! I hide nothing, everyone gets there timeslip with all their info and they are the only one who knows if it wrong or not. If a racer sees a problem with his times and bring his time slips to me to show me I can do the the math and pull sheet to look at others.

Re: Was it just me?
 

Jeff, I wouldn't be offended. Everyone would like to think that NHRA is doing everything possible to ensure a proper set up and forget that nothing is perfect. We work very hard to make our cars work their best and when something doesn't seem right we first blame ourselves and mechanics. To find out it is something with track set up (maybe) we feel robbed. By then it's to late, NHRA isn't going to give us re-runs if we figure it out after the fact.