Newbie pondering combos
 

Hi, I'm a newbie up here in Montana, who has been fascinated with Stock for years. I'm pondering some oddball stock combos based off cars I have available to me, as opposed to buying a car. I'd rather try building my own if it's workable just for the challenge. Anyways, I was wondering if anyone would chime in on if any of these cars would be cool to run, and maybe what class they'd fit?

63 Pontiac Tempest/195 4cyl 4bbl/3spd
63 Studebaker Lark wagon/289 2bbl/3 spd
85 Ford Crown Vic/351 4bbl (police)/auto
80 Ford Fairmont 200-6 or 255/auto
74 AMC Matador coupe/360 or 401/auto

I appreciate any info or opinions in advance, thanks.

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

Go to the NHRA website. Near the top, on the right, there is a tab that says "rules". When you move your cursor there, a drop down box lists some links. You want the one that says "Stock Car Classification Guide". Open that guide and you can look for the cars you have listed, and see if they are in the class guide. The class guide will give you the shipping weight and the HP rating, and the pounds per rated HP. That is how you figure out what class(es) a car fits, if it fits any.

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

of the items listed, the AMC "might" be a good choice. [needs research]

This is just my personal opinion, the 4 cyl and 6 cyl and two barrel 8 cylinders combos are simply too slow for my enjoyment. Even if one of those combination's is good, it is not a good choice for your first stocker. [again, in my opinion] The low powered engines are strongly affected by conditions making them difficult to dial, even for an experienced racer.

Even by doing all the work in house and buying parts carefully, you will have many thousands of dollars invested. When it is all said and done, beginning with a combination that holds "at least a reasonable chance of being competitive" will be no more money spent that pioneering an unknown combination.

Consider this, stock eliminator contains many bright and hard working racers. Some of those racers are very free thinking so if some unheard off, rare combination was a good move, someone would already be running it.

In no way am I intending to discourage you, rather, I strongly encourage you. I simply know from personal experience that once you are entered into a race you will be more satisfied about the money and time invested if the car is competitive.

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

Thanks for the info. The thing that draws me to this class of racing is the challenge, of making a car go fast with such tight parameters to work in, and the great parity of the cars in it. I was looking at what I had around for oddballs, I might just buy a used car, who knows? I wanted to tackle building one myself, for the challenge and the satisfaction of building my own unique race car. I was leaning more towards the Fairmont or the AMC, and there are a few more in my stash to look into also. If I can get my excel to work I could look at the NHRA info, but that's another issue. If there's a combo someone would like to see I'd love to hear that too...

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

There is/was a Mantador S/W out here on the west coast in Stock Eliminator a few
years back and there were a few magazine articles on this car. I think Bruce Fluper(sp?)
built the car.

If I remember correctly there were struggles with finding cams and convertors for the
motor combo he ran (401?)

But it was a fun car to watch run.

If you can do your own fabrication/welding then it is a bit cheaper to build your own car,
if you have to farm it out, then it's cheaper to buy a turn key car.

Or in my case, bought a "turn-key" car, but it had sat around unraced for so long, everything
is needing redo and upgrading....not complaining, just stating a fact.

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

Try downloading "excel viewer" from the NHRA website. They offer that to allow you to view the guides whether you have excel or not. It's a small sownload, and it works fine. I used it when I did not have Office installed.

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

I`m pretty sure Fulper AMC wagon was a 304 2 barrel combo for U/SA. Years ago I had looked into the 79 Fairmont with a 302 2 barrel and 4 speed, but at that time NHRA had raised the HP from the factory rating of 139-143, up to 200HP. A few years ago they dropped the HP of most of the 2 barrel engines, 170 for the Ford 302. A 255 has really tiny heads. Ford did make a 2.3 4 cyl Turbo Fairmont, which is basically the same setup as Mark Yaccavones record holding Mustang.Actually, I doubt that you could get into a Stocker of any sort cheaper than just buying Marks Mustang, which is a strong qualifier, although I don`t know if he still has the car. On the oddball front, it would pretty hard to find anything stranger than Div. 6`s Jim Mantles 258 cube 6 cyl. powered AMC Pacer station Wagon, always at top half qualifier as well.

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

Ok, got excel to work, thanks Alan, and I'll throw most all of those first ideas out of the window I think. I can fab and weld and build drivetrains, so that's why I wanted to try building a car, plus I wanted something unique. I do have a couple other cars in my pile to look into that aren't rough, one idea of which was suggested to me by a very helpful member here. I do have a weird AMC/Rambler bone in me, as well as access to a few of those various cars...

What I'd like to know now is, what is everyones most memorable oddball they've seen, or what oddball would you like to build if you could?

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

I raced against a fairly late model Jeep Pickup a couple years ago at a Lucas race. I believe it was an inline 6. That was a pretty unusal combination.......We had a dbl. breakout race and I lost....He ran 13.9 something.......it was running in a F.I. class as I was at the time........His ET's varied a lot as I recall but he went deep into eliminations that day.....A Jeep engine was an AMC when I worked on them in the late 70's in a Jeep dealership as a flat rater.....

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

One of my favorite combinations was the Galonka Brothers Caddy Coupe DeVille. Big, Green, and Fast. I like Ed Fernandez's Gremlin too.

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

The 360 Matador would be the way to go in my opinion. The AMC 401/360 shares the same top end components and the 360 cam is
.425" lift (which is plenty) to the 401's .457" lift. I'm, saying not much there in the cam to make you lean one way or the other. The '72-'74 360 HP is ripe for a reduction with NHRA as it is a low compression engine that nobody has tackled yet. The high compression 360 of '70-'71 has received reductions. The ports on the 360/401 are very good and the carb size is adequate, more so on the 360. With the 360 you could switch classes and run a 4bbl or 2bbl.
The rear suspension on the Matador is similar to the GM A-Body (Chevelle, GTO, ETC.) so it should work well with normal modifications.
The 401 would be no more difficult to build but there is a slight premium on parts. It would be faster but probable less aggressive against the index. At least with the current HP rating.
The wagon in question was a 304-2bbl Matador wagon.
Good luck!

Re: Newbie pondering combos
 

I am in the same boat as you, yet after taking a good look at it all it seems like what we have to ask ourselves is what would be the benefit in terms of competetiveness, ease and cost for doing a particular combo. Also, like one other racer said, but I'll paraphrase here, zoom factor. It sucks to run a car that just doesn't squeeze you good down the quarter. My car is big with a small motor and a stick, so unless you gear it and scream the guts out of it, it will not do the job. But if I work at it (ie time and $$$$$$), it can do the job. Any car can. But some cars and combinations are easier. The physics of speed are the same no matter what. The cheap way is to take the lightest car, combined with an engine that conforms to the rules with the best factory available heads and induction, cam and driveline to match. It takes us sitting down and calculating everything out before making a move. What got me excited about Stock Eliminator is seeing late model Mustangs with E7TE heads and stock spec cams going 11's and nudging the 10's. Seeing 301 turbo pontiacs do 12.5's legally, not to mention the big dogs like that Vette that went mid 9's with an L88. Good stuff. This type of racing is hard fought, probably more so than any other that I have seen because the top players have had to make so many sacrifices to squeeze out everything and still be legal. Chevy and Mopar seem easiest to do from a cost benefit point, then Ford, then everybody else. In the end we have to be committed for a class like this, because the more obscure the car combination, the more sacrifice it's going to require.