NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

We had a good day today at the Seattle national event, despite NHRA's best effort to make it miserable. For some unknown reason, NHRA created a ridiculous run order, and it made a number of us in the sportsman pits wonder if NHRA really wants us there at all.

Normally, a national event Saturday would be filled with a morning of round one's walking through all the sportsman classes, and maybe round two of a large class or two. Then at noon or so, you segue into TAD/FC, PS, and FC/TF, and repeat the alcohol and pros. Finally the day is finished off with a round or two of all the sportsman classes. That leaves the remaining few rounds as filler for the Sunday show.

This arrangement has a lot of advantages, not the least of which is it gives the sportsman racers a reasonable turnaround. Because, even in the worst case, you have a half-dozen other classes to run before you have to get back in the staging lanes.

But some rocket-scientist at NHRA decided to shake things up. So this morning we had three hot-lap rounds for S/ST, ST, and a couple other classes. So fully 2/3rds of those people were done by noon. And the winners spent the morning scrambling to make the next call.

And NHRA put Super Gas and Super Comp off to the end of the day, hot-lapping three rounds. So we spent the whole day waiting for our shot (got there at 7:30am, ran round one at 6:15pm). And then we had perhaps 10 minutes to get back for round 2 after our round 1 win.

NHRA didn't have a ladder that fast, so 35 cars spent 15 minutes mangled up on the pit road trying to find their matchup, decide lane choice, and get into the lanes. The whole time Reinhart is complaining over the PA "Super Comp, where are you, if you're not in the lanes, you're late", while we're all 20 feet away trying to get in the dang lanes, but can't because the whole thing is a big cluster. Then they made round 2 winners just drive back into the lanes, with no stop at the pits to cool down, refuel, check data, or anything.

All because some clown at NHRA decided to mess with a sane formula. No one in an NHRA uniform could give any reason for the ridiculous order, and they all thought it was pretty stupid too. And it made many of us wonder why we were there in the first place... Does NHRA really want us there at all?

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

How much more of this you guys going to take? That is why I decided last year to go back to bracket racing,. I am haveingjust as much fun, if not more without a bunch of BS.
ENOUGH ALLREADY!

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Hahahahahahahahahaha.....

If you can't see the writing on the wall you need to wake up and smell the coffee!!! They don't want us...

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Chris,

Thanks for sharing this info...it just solidifies the fact why we don't run any NHRA National events especially Seattle.

My wife and I as well as many of our travelling partners have always wanted to run Seattle but too many horror stories from good racing buddies who have taken the chance at the Seattle event have discouraged us now for the past 8 years. We have decided to compete only at select NHRA division 6 races (Mission, Billings etc. ) and this year in more bracket racing locally. It not only keeps racing costs down but we are having more fun!

Chris, I am sorry to hear they made you wait all day, then hot lap the hell out of you guys and jump through hoops to navigate the road course at Pacific Raceways. For all of the professionalism NHRA tries to exemplify at their races, they sure fail miserably when something like this happens. NHRA doesn't seem to get it. Racers tell other racers about their racing experiences!

Hopefully your next race will be a better one!

Mike Ferstl
SG SR 6091

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Mr. Reinhart just graciously called and we had a good conversation on this topic. He was able to articulate the rationale for this changed run order, something no one I found could do.

He explained that the new order doesn't have a whole pile of people with Round 1 in the am and Round 2 in the evening, meaning they have to sit at the track all day. The new order gives half the folks the ability to come early & leave early, and the other people the chance to sleep in and stay late. OK, I buy that.

But as I explained to Alan, I really have two issues: 1) trying to hot-lap dozens of cars with insufficient space/time/info to make it work smoothly, and 2) a whole bunch of people (racers, people in NHRA uniforms, fans, friends, etc.) who weren't clear what was going on.

The issue with getting it done smoothly is exacerbated by Seattle's pit/staging lane arrangement. He said it worked great in Denver, but not so well in the narrow confines of Pacific Raceways. Nonetheless, I'd like more info. Maybe if immediately after Round 1 they sent out a guy on a scooter with the pairings to the pits, at least you'd know who to look for... Before you roll up. Just an idea. More info is always better.

The second issue of not knowing what's really going on is the big issue. Sometimes it seems that if you don't stay at the track, you're completely out of the loop. I suggested to Alan that there's this cool thing called "the internet", and that the event schedule on NHRA.com is lame. It says simply "Sportsman Eliminations" on Saturday. And on Sunday it's even worse...

I suggest to NHRA, if you KNOW the run order, post it. How about "Sportsman Eliminations, Run Order: ...". No, the times don't have to be perfect, just some guidelines. The run order I finally did see said S/C Round 1 at 5:00 and we ran at 6:15 -- who cares, we all know it's just a SWAG. But at least to know the order would help.

Using the internet would let us be able to tell friends to look there for the schedule, and show up accordingly ("just show up for the 3:00 pro session and stay for us"). And we would have planned our day better, and known what's going on.

So really, to quote the late Strother Martin from Cool Hand Luke: what we got here... is failure to communicate. NHRA has all the cards, they know what's going on. We don't. Find a better way to tell us all.

Thanks again Alan, enjoy your ride.
Chris

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

I didn't see your name on the 1st. rd. winners list , so why you bitchin about hot lapping ?

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

I would much rather "hot lap" 3 passes in the morning than making 3 passes spread out over the whole day. Just my opinion. :)

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Well it looks to me like we have NHRA trying something to better the event, and although in this case it might not have worked to perfection, there are still people complaining about it. Personally I like seeing the effort and I am happy their trying. To all the people that piss and moan about NHRA and Div. and National events, I still say you will miss them if their gone, and if you don't then don't go.

I have heard that some high ups monitor this board, it must really piss them off when they try to better something and all people do is complain, almost makes you wonder how long they will listen to the B.S. before they (not us) say screw it, it's not worth having them.

I have an idea, how about saying hey, I understand what your trying to do, but from a racers point, if you guys do this it would help us out and make it even better.

Just my opinion, and you know what they say about opinions......

Pete Sanca 196X S/ST

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

So what ever happened to the Sportsman Council, or whatever it was called...

I hear and experience this time and time and time again...

Who on here works for a big company that sells a product to the public and provides services ?

Number One thing is CUSTOMER SATISFACTION !!!!!!

I'm really tired of hearing that NHRA is trying something different and blah blah blah (no offense Pete), but in order to get customer satisfaction you ASK THE CUSTOMER what you can do better or different, not just do something and see if it works or not...

The simplist thing that they could do at Division or National events is POST THE DANG SCHEDULE, and stick to the freaking thing...If you cant stick to the schedule, tell everyone what the change is...I dont wanna hear, oh you're on standby till further notice, wait lets see, etc...thats crap....

NHRA is not in the business of making racers happy, they are in the business of making money at whatever cost they feel is prudent, and I'm very happy to spend my money else where bracket racing and small series racing...

And come on for Gods sake....a feature on the mileage of John Forces scooter....give me a break...

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

My daughter, 6104.

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

There was far from a 10 minute turnaround.
I was in the LAST pair of super gas cars first round at 6:01
I was in the FIRST pair rd 2 at 6:33
Again I was in FIRST pair rd 3 at 7:15
A half hour to fourty five minutes is more than enough time to cool down and get back to the lanes.
Paul Booth
S/G 6164

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Dave, no offence taken, and I do agree about the schedule thing, but before I complain about it, I have to know what goes on behind closed doors. I just can't believe that (for the most part) as good of a show as NHRA puts on, that they would sit there and jerk our chain on purpose. I've said this before, maybe I am giving NHRA to much credit, maybe I just have not been doing it long enough to get tired of it yet. I have bracket raced for over 10 years, did the "big money" races for 2 and did the .90 thing for 3 and I love it. I guess thats why they make diff. racing, for diff. people.

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Paul,

Good to see you went a couple of rounds! Taking out Lamb in the first round would have been stellar.

Part of the problem besides the 3 hot lap rounds is traversing Pacific Raceways' road course. This is not Englishtown, Maple Grove, Columbus or Indy and I have been to all of them. The fact NHRA parks sportsmen racers all over the road course and it is fairly narrow, makes driving from your pit spot at the the top end to the staging lanes a nightmare. Dodging other racer's rigs, spectators and keeping the car from getting too hot is a challenge at the best of times. If you have a small problem with the car, you are literally screwed.

I realize this can be a challenge at any of the national event tracks but Pacific Raceway is the worst of the lot!

Mike Ferstl
SG SR 6091

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

The problem I see with hot laping is if a person has any kind of mechanical problems........no time to fix.
I was once in this position, @ Midsouths Nat 2nd round I think it was......I broke a planetary gear on the starting line, and my competitor never looked over, yes he broke out. In my case I had till the next day to fix it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not really crazy about all the long waits, (next days) but I think its the lesser of the evil.

Just my 2

Rick

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

They've been trying this style of schedule the past couple years at some races. I think the main purpose was to avoid having you race first thing in the morning AND then last thing at night.

I've liked the new format til Seattle, where those who were doubling in Super Comp and Super Gas would have had some issues.

I think it would have worked better if they ran Super Gas in the morning instead of say, Super Stock. Then run Super Stock and Super Comp at night. I would think most doublers are either SGas/SComp or Stock/SStock ... so if they separate them, it might move the show on a little quicker.

But I'd agree with Chris on one issue ... posting the run order the night before, whether online or somewhere at the actual facility, would be a nice touch. They do this most of the time, but there have been a couple races where we went to bed not knowing the next days run order.

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

By the looks of the low car turn-outs their plan may be working way to good.
If I remember right, at Denver, there was only 40 some cars in Stock, S/Stock and a few more in Super Classes. That has to be what...about 175 to 200 less than a couple years ago. At $280 each the track is short about $60K in entry fees and crew passes. Less cars is less money...and the bleachers are less than half f ull at almost every NHRA National event.

They may need to rethink where the cash comes from.

I still have never figured out why they don't run Sportsman time runs Friday, No Pros on Friday, Sportsman elims down to 8 or 16 cars on Saturday between qualifying.
Move Pro Qualifying to 6 pm and 9pm so it is at least a decent show to watch. (Nitro in the day....weak!)
Finish off Sportsman between Pro rounds on Sunday.

Must be a lot harder to do that schedule than I think because I sure haven't seen it done that way.

At least then you can offer fans a DECENT Saturday ticket. Two rounds of Nitro at Night racing and a lot of nice Sportsman cars racing on Saturday.

Just an unofficial opinion from an "entry-fee payer".

Jok

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Wouldn't no pro's on Friday kinda hurt the Friday attendance?

10,000 (conservative number?) fans x $40 ticket = $400,000

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Your right Jason, they wont concede the fri take for the benefit of the racers, it is a business still. But a little common sense would go a long way.

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yeah look, that no pro's thing on friday will never happen, nor should it. Like Gary said, this is a business!!! I'm guessing 1 out of every 50 people are there to see sportsman racers. You have to give the fans what they want. Were just a filler guys and girls, yes they generate some good money from the sportsman classes, but I don't see bankrupcy in NHRA's future if they did away w/ us @ national events.

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I asked Reinhart about this when we talked. He said NHRA specifically decided to put S/G and S/C together because there are a number of people who run both (same for Stock and SStock). Their attempt was to make it so that the guys who run both could come in late or go home early. I see the logic, but sure am glad we didn't run both -- we know someone who was and they were really humpin'...

I dunno, I guess I understand what NHRA was trying to do. I just wish they communicated it better. As I said to Alan, they know the Sonoma run order today -- so post it on the internet. :)

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

The schedule was a good idea on paper but it took longer to run. They were taking more brakes waiting for racers then they should have. All they needed to do with the evening is go s/st s/g s/c the one extra class would allow for the program to go smoother and stll be fast paced. It would acomplish the same goal because s/st drivers aren't allowed to race 2 classes.

The The Stock and Super Stock guys could have had their three rounds with comp in between the pro sessions. That would allow for those cars to cool off. We run a dragster and our car was warm enough I felt bad for any of the guys that had to race heads up!

Hey at leaset it sounded as if it was an attempt to be better to the racers but just needs tweaked.

Brian Phillips JR

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

That's funny, that's almost exactly what I suggested to Alan: make it at least three classes, so you have one running, one getting up there ready to go, and one in the pits recovering. Maybe they'll listen.

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Chris Williams said;

"That's funny, that's almost exactly what I suggested to Alan: make it at least three classes, so you have one running, one getting up there ready to go, and one in the pits recovering. Maybe they'll listen."

Now there is a great idea!

Mike Ferstl
SG SR 6091

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

I am just happy to wake up in the mornings and still know I can go drag racing:)

BB just happy to be alive.

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

Amen

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Agree!

For anyone who hasn't run at Pacific, it really is bad for getting from the return road, through the pits, back to the staging lanes.

Not sure if they still do it this way at Sonoma, but it used to be a long trip along the road course to get back too. The first few years of that race they had Sportsman classes take a left turn return road which puts you on the road course (which they had us pitted on). The saving grace was that there were no spectators to contend with to get back to your pits. I remember running divisional races there when they had us take the right side return road, it was a much shorter trip. I think I remember one national there when they made us take the right side in one of the later rounds so we could pass the scales, that confused me since I had no clue how to get back to my pit from there!

Regards,

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

And in a dragster the left-hander from the road course into the staging lanes is quite a PITA.

We've been to Pacific a number of times, and with a smaller event, everyone is pitted up above, where it's now almost all paved, and getting to/from the staging lanes is little more than a big sweeper on the road course. Very nice.

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

..................Why aren't super street racers allowed to race in two different classes??

Re: NHRA Chasing Sportsmen from National Events?
 

I have been told it is because s/st is entry level.