S/g 1983
 

I made this post on the S/SS.Not many replys.I guess my opinoins and comments aren't appreciated there,like I real give a flying flock.
The question here is after looking at the way they did it then how many of you would like to go back to that style of .90 racing.Seems to me the costs would be less and after an adjustment period I think the racing would be real tight at the stripe.The fans might just enjoy it more than the present system.
I'm sure the equiptment sponsors wouldn't be too happy about it though.

Re: S/g 1983
 

Ed....in 1983 S/G was just getting started. They allowed Deep Staging....people raced thru or even around the water to get to the starting line so they could stage first and the second guy in usually lost......It was another year or two before they had that all fixed. I ran some S/ST events in that era. Deep Staging was allowed and we used a .4 tree the first year at the events around here. Racing was close after the Deep Staging was eliminated and for most of the way down the track cars were side by side. T-Stop timers are what allowed the present evolution of the Super classes. They appeared in the late 80's or early '90's and I don't think they could ever be eliminated now.......

Re: S/g 1983
 

I think all the Super Classes have been too modified since the beginning and people have WAY too much money invested in their equipment to go back to the beginning. It's all about going 175mph at 9.90 and trying to wheel race the slow guy at 145. I know back in early IHRA Super Rod racing you were allowed to use Nitrous in your car incase it couldn't run 9.90. Oh well I go 111 to 117 mph - COME AND GET ME and you try to judge the stripe that way!!

Re: S/g 1983
 

Its like every other class....NHRA (and IHRA) let it get out of hand when all it would have taken was a list of rules and stick to them. .90 racing was pretty cool in the beginning except for the deep staging. Now all of the electronics and large expensive engines have ruined it for the guy on a budget. Oh well it was a good idea in the beginning.

Re: S/g 1983
 

Having been a .90 racer for more than twenty years I agree that the racing was better and less expensive before adjustable/electronic throttle stops. (We were essentially side-by-side). But nothing is constant except change and cash makes the world go round. The allowance of these devices have help support the aftermarket manufactures which produce the parts needed for these “Big Engines” and these manufactures in turn sponsor the sanction bodies so they both benefit from the current rules and are not going to change them.
While there are a couple of tactical advantages to being a faster (high MPH) car I still have friends/competitors who have some success running lower budget (lower MPH) cars I don’t agree that the current rules and technology have “Ruined it for the guy on a budget” I would agree that it has placed them at a disadvantage but they still can and do occasionally win. When I compare the cost of racing a comp eliminator, top sportsman or top dragster class, I still consider super class racing the “best bang for the buck”. Since I’m still doing it, I still think it’s still a good idea and represents good competitive racing that I can afford to do.

Re: S/g 1983
 

I agree completely, Bill. You can be competitive in the .90 classes without going over 175mph, and without spending $100k on an engine. You just have to put in the time, practice, and energy into being able to build outstanding packages. If you can consistently put together packages under .020 or so, you don't have to play the finish line games -- just keep the pedal matted, and shout "come and get me". All it takes is several thousand hits on a practice tree, and enough passes to know how your combination is effected by the weather and the track. The big key to .90 racing is between your ears, not between the framerails or between the pages of your bank statement. We love it.

Re: S/g 1983
 

I liked X-Tech Man's post under Stock/Super Stock.

" NOT allow any electronics at all. No deep staging, .5 tenths trees in all 3 classes to equal different weight and styles of cars, build the engine and car to run the number to see how many "Jump Ship" and try racing the way it used to be with just a "bolt stop" for the throttle.. Its called DRIVER SKILL not robotics."

I have 24 years experience racing both with and without electronics. Most of it in the super classes.

I think a new association with no electronics would be a huge success right now.
Perhaps the crowds of spectators will return if drag racing gets back to it's roots and they can actually figure out what's going on?
(see the success of Pinks for an example)

I am so sick and tired of watching more and more electronics replace skill and raise the cost out of reach for many of us. $1395-$2400 for a delay box? Oh excuse me, it's a "Data Acquisition System". Get real!

There is about a 5% chance that I'll win the race without the latest greatest equipment. These are not good odds, my friends. How many of us spend the $500-600 it costs to compete in a Sportsman event with these odds? (I should play Lotto instead.)

Car counts are way down here in the Southeast, part is the economy and part is the fact that people are leaving the Super Class series. The folks I've talked to are not happy with the electronics. Especially the new dash units. A few have mentioned that they think some people are using these new electronic devices in an illegal manner. So why bother to waste your money and time trying to compete honestly?

I personally would support a non electronics sportsman series. Either that or I'm defecting to Stock/Super Stock or perhaps going back to Bracket Racing.

Re: S/g 1983
 

.oo lights and .90s win races ,no matter what electronics you have ,the electronics don't drive the cars .high mph or slow mph you have to know car ,if you are bracket racing you can bet you will race faster cars.

Re: S/g 1983
 

Very well stated....totally agree.

Re: S/g 1983
 

Last year NHRA posted a new rule for the Super Classes that you could not have any data pickups on the wheels or drive line components. The problem is no TECH OFFICIAL at any race I have attended has ever looked for one.
I thought this might clear out some of those who use the counter systems to detect where they were at et wise and whether to take the finish line or give it away.
I was wrong!!!
I know that is still going on with some racers using data going to the MSD system to stutter the ignition if they are to quick at a measured point on the track.
I have observed this at test sessions. When you hear an engine miss or stutter at 330, 660, and 1000 ft and still the car runs a 9.90-- you have a good feel something is being counted and controlled.
I continue to race but I know it is not a level playing field at some races.
Just My 2 Cents

Re: S/g 1983
 

As I recall, that rule was a typo, and was quickly revoked. I don't believe any such rule is in the current rulebook.

Re: S/g 1983
 

As I recall, that rule was a typo, and was quickly revoked. I don't believe any such rule is in the current rulebook. Chris Williams

Chris, if you read the 09 rulebook page 91 Section 5 second paragraph under Super Street with the rules follow over to Super Gas and Super Comp it states:

"Timed vehicle-control devices (counters, time displays, etc.), except as outlined under Class Requirements, are prohibited. Display or transmission of track location, time/distance data, etc. prohibited."

That does not sound like a typo to me as it is in the 09 rulebook. Pretty cut and dried only if NHRA enforces it.
My 2 Cents

Re: S/g 1983
 

Sorry, now I remember, it was in Jan 08, NHRA accidentally had a sentence that outlawed all driveshaft logging, that was quickly rescinded as it was found to be a typo. The problem with the rule as it is, is enforcement. Driveshaft RPM logging is legal and crucial (at least to me) to figuring out track conditions. But expecting a tech person to determine if that line is then being used to control the ignition, is a complex wiring issue. It's probably best if they do what they do for many other rules: respond to complaints from competitors, and examine cars that appear to be violating the rule.

Re: S/g 1983
 

But would they know how to find anything?It would amaze the CIA and the old KGB how far some drag racers would go to win races.Matty boxes,AM/FM delay boxes etc.James Bond would be proud.

Re: S/g 1983
 

I've chatted online with a guy that plays with the data acquisition style dash mounted boxes, and yes, they are programmable. (it's amazing what you can get people to admit to online)

Sadly, it would be nearly impossible for any of the NHRA techs to tell that they've been messed around with unless they happen to be a talented IT tech and know what tests to run.
Electronics have gone too far, it's time for a change.

Re: S/g 1983
 

In the 2009 rule book go to page 95 Electrical:8 and page 96 these rules are for s/g and s/c .
Go to page 98 section 6 same thing on page 100 section 7. But who checks?

Re: S/g 1983
 

While this is true, under changing conditions (some of which you can't predict with a weather station), you may need to trim the stripe close to keep from breaking out. The higher-mph car has better visibility for doing this.

I'm trying to decide which way to run my car for an upcoming 1/8-mile national open (my first S/G racing in 15+ years). At least in the 1/8 mile the speed differentials will be smaller. At my local track I recently went from one of the slowest cars in Pro bracket to one of the quickest, and I must admit that it is much easier judging the stripe from behind. OTOH maybe that experience being chased in bracket races will pay off if I run low trap speeds in S/G.

If I could snap my fingers and return to the way S/G was run in the 1980's, I would do it in a heartbeat.

Regards,