Rules for staging?
 

Will someone please tell me the rules as per nhra as far as staging goes?

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Art,
There is a page devoted to it in the 2009 Rule Book, page 41, Section 2 Race Procedures, Staging.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Art,

The rules regarding staging are on page 41 of the Rulebook and they take up almost an entire page, too much for me to type in on a holiday.

If you're inquiring about deep staging, it's not permitted in Stock or Super Stock. If you're interested in courtesy staging, it's mandatory in Stock and Super Stock. If you deep stage inadvertently, it triggers a red light. If you light both bulbs before your opponent lights the pre-stage, it's instant disqualification.

If neither of these was the genesis of your question, ask me and I'll be happy to look-up whatever detail you specify.

c

Re: Rules for staging?
 

What I meant was. Is one car supposed to light the first light, then the second car lights his first light then the first car lights the second light and then the second car does the same.
This is the way I thought it is supposed to work.
When I have accidently turned both bulbs on and was made to back out. Is this the proceedure?

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Yes. If you do it in eliminations you may be dq'd.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Yes, both pre-stage lights must be lit before either competitor can light the stage bulb.

Once both pre-stage bulbs are lit, either competitor can stage first.

In time trials they'll make you back out, in eliminations they'll normally turn on the red light if you do not back out almost instantly.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

What happened to me was I lit the first light. Then the guy I was running comes up and turns on both bulbs. I waited for him to back a little. (this is what they have always made me do) When I realized they were not doing anything. I lit the second bulb, tried to bump it a touch, and wound up deep, went to back and the red was on.
The method I've been working on is to get up there first, light the first bulb, then after the other car lites the first bulb. I lite the second and bump in a touch. I didn't realize one car can go up and lite both bulbs regardless of the other car.
Or am I missing something.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Am I confusing "courtesy staging" with the rules?

Re: Rules for staging?
 

It doesn't matter which driver turns on the third bulb as long as both top bulbs are on when the third one is lit. What you experienced is the way that courtesy staging is applied in these parts.

c

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Okay I'll know next time. Chalk that up to experience

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Here's an amendment to the staging rule as posted on the NHRA web page before Indy:

STAGING
DELETE:
“When staging in Super Stock, Stock, Super Comp, Super Gas, or Super Street
categories, both contestants must activate their pre-stage lights before either
may advance into the stage beams.”
REPLACE WITH:
“When staging in Super Stock, Stock, Super Comp, Super Gas, Super Street,
or Competition Eliminator categories, both contestants must activate their
pre-stage lights before either may advance into the stage beams.”

Apparently, they only just now added Comp to the list.

c

Re: Rules for staging?
 

chuck does that mean it is ok to wait for the guy to light his top bulb, and then roll in and light both with out pausing ? seems to me the second guy has a little bit of a advantage?

Re: Rules for staging?
 

It just means that a driver can not stage until the other driver is pre staged. If you choose to prestage 2nd and roll right in and stage in one big motion, so be it.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

i did not know that was legal ok with me just did not know the second guy could go in with out stopping.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Here is another staging scenario that happened to a friend of mine at a bracket race.I think I am explaining this right......

Driver A lights the pre-stage.Driver B lights the pre-stage.Driver A stages.Driver B notices that his dial-in is NOT correct.He doesn't stage.Autostart takes over,redlight for Driver B.Driver A makes the pass down track.
Driver B goes to the tower and says he wants a rerun and that the dial-in wasn't correct,that is why he didn't stage.Driver A says that he never should have pre-staged if the dial-in was not correct.
Who is right?
What should have happened?
Rerun or loss for Driver B?

Re: Rules for staging?
 

I agree, you should always check the dial before lighting the 1rst bulb. If you already have the pre stage bulb lit, and then notice the dial is wrong, I would back out right away, but the starter may or may not allow that. My opinion is, you light the first bulb, you "bought" the dial.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

I'm with Rory on that

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Once you prestage you own it.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Art, Once you have prestaged first the other guy can go in as fast as they like. They still had to light one bulb at a time, and once they are in now with three bulbs lit the autostart clock has started for you to be staged or timed out. If you feel the need to stage first, then I suggest you let the other guy prestage first and then roll in at a faster pace. Autostart has cleaned up about 90% of the staging games. It helps prevent getting hometowned by a track.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

ART after our talk i called our starter and bimbo jones is right it is legal to stage second an light both bulbs as fast as you want

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Okay. This probably will not be the last thing I learn. I thought different, but now I know.
It will actually be better for me. It will give me more time.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

I will say i learned something new today also, i am not sure i would call it courtesy staging?

Re: Rules for staging?
 

I suppose the "courtesy" comes from the first person not lighting both lights at once.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Just wondering(sounds like Burke of DRO) has one of the major timing systems ever fix the bug in their autostart software that would allow a racer to trick the autostart timer to be activated? Some multi national event winners learned that if they knew their opponet would try to stage second, they could briefly stage after both cars had prestaged. By bliping the stage light the timer for timing out was started but you had to confident the other guy was a diehard go in second racer. With the count down in motion a racer could go in after waiting a few seconds and the other racer got what was left of the count down of the autostart software. This technique would be more effective in the super classes where a pro tree was used but could be use to throw off slower classes going first by distracting them with a quick tree where handicaps are used. This may be just BS I was told to see how gullible I was, but does make for some interesting questions. Food for thought.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

I've heard the same thing, that they have worked it out to where they can slam the brakes and use the "windup" in the slicks to bounce them backwards just after turning on the stage light. I wonder if the autostart system looks for a steady stage light or if it is tripped by a quick flicker like that?

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Art,

You were probably DQ'd because of the deepstage. But while you did try to back up and fix it, that would also DQ you. The rulebook states that your last movement into the stage beams must be a FORWARD motion. I believe this is to prevent people from going across the beams and backing up to the point where they are just barely deep staged. I ASSUME, but do not know for sure, that that rule was implemented during the early years of super class racing.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

I lit the first bulb, then when he lit 2 I was waiting for them to back him up. They didn't. I rushed to stage and wound up deep.
I just didn't understand the rules. it was my fault. It won't happen to me again.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Getting back to the Driver A and Driver B scenario,the track gave the rerun to Driver B.Go figure.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Bimbo Jones, I had a situation somewhat like you talked about at Cordova this year at one of the Heartland races. Both cars where stick cars,and both are long time class act racers, so no one was trying to pull anything. Car A and B prestage, car A goes in, Car B waits a second or two, Car A backs out, car B goes in , before car A can get back in staged the system times out, and car A has his light go red.

Michael Pliska, at least with Compulink a car can just blink the staged bulb, and the system will not start, most systems you must be in a set amount of time, half a second say, for the time out timer to begin.

442 OLDS , do not know all the circumstances, starters sometimes have great discretion, but if he prestaged and you where staged, I do not see a rerun being in order.,

Hope this helps. Jimmy D. Hyink

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Once someone is staged,why on earth would you then back up?

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Not sure about NHRA. IHRA in the Rulebook lists a "Staged Minimum", which I believe is the time a car must be fully staged to trigger the Autostart. It also lists "Staged to Start", I think is the time from when both cars are staged til the Tree activates. Stock and S/S (actually all Sportsman classes from T/D to H/R) have a 0.6 seconds "Staged Mnimum" listed. "Stage to Start" is 0.9 seconds for S/SS.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

I believe the problem was fixed a couple of seasons back but some tracks may not have installed the software upgrade to correct it. I was just fishing to see how many were aware of it and if any of you were ever victims of this issue. I believe the bug was fixed by reprograming the count down to only take place while the third bulb is activated and if a driver backs out of the stage beam the count down will stop counting down and will restart at the beginning when the third light is turned on again. Anyway I am amased that someone would even be able to discover such a bazar scenario and even more difficult to imagine someone being able to us it as a driving technique to catch a opponent off guard for a starting line advantage.

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Mike Carr is correct.At least that is the way it works with a compulink system.I don't know about TSI or any of the other systems.IMHO compulink is the only system.If you are racing at a track without it you will get screwed sometime,somehow.And I have to add this Question,it is not directed at any one person.How can you understand the rules and regulations of stock or super stock and not understand how the tree works??

Re: Rules for staging?
 

Not touchin that question with a 10 ft pool. Or a 50 ft .........

Re: Rules for staging?
 

My original question had nothing to do with how the tree works. It was about starting proceedures. It was about what I thought was courtesy staging. One bulb at a time. Many racers I talked to did not realize you could roll in and light 2 bulbs. After the other lane lights the first. Now I know
PARDON MY STUPIDITY

Re: Rules for staging?
 

I was at the first NHRA event at Norwalk when the issue of courtesy staging came to a head...and it involved the Pros not the sportsman racers.....Erica Enders in Prostock knew she had no chance to actually outrun Greg Anderson so she rushed her burnout and lit both bulbs....before Greg could even get close to actually staging like he always does he was "timed out"...the tree lit, she left and he just sat there wondering what happened....the crap hit the fan arms were flying up in the air and people were yelling like crazy (I was close enough to hear it and it wasn't nice)...

Re: Rules for staging?
 

ART is correct his original question had nothing to do with the pro's and i for one did not it was legal to do what happened to art at indy in the first round. PARDON MY STUPIDITY.