Stick or Automatic
 

I have been thinking about putting a stick in my SS/modified car. What would be the +/- of stick/auto. I was looking @ Gforce or Proflite. any advise, thanks

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

+ alot of fun,can make adjustments in bellhousing without sending conv. off to be worked on or change.
- I'm biased can't give any negatives
Mike Taylor3601

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Adjustments on a stick setup aren't just possible, constant adjustments on a stick setup are needed.

Once you get an automatic set up right, you just check the fluid occasionally, and adjust the bands once every X number of runs..

But if HP ratings are of interest, they could be significantly different between auto and , so that might be a reason to do one or the other.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Maybe with a stocker. Not in SS if you are thrashing your combo to go faster, then you might have a few expensive converters laying around. If your combo is soft enough you don't have to do that until you finally get hit with enough hp to have to step it up. I have only tested three different converters this past year, I have friends with up to five converters. Change your SS combo then you start all over again.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

When properly set up, a stick is MORE consistent than an automatic.
I have been through an entire weekend at a national event with qualifying, class run offs and final round of eliminations. The ET was 10.62 to 10.64 over 3 days. Automatics retain more heat and that heat affects the engine also. A/T's are more prone to ET fluctuations due to fluid temperatures.
Where a stick car will run into problems is with those that set up the launch with a bog. Bogs are not nearly as predictable in ET. Neither is letting the tires spin because you can't control a bog or spin to repeatable levels.
And once set up properly, a stick requires little maintenance to the clutch. The question is, is the racer willing to do it the right way or his way? The two are not always equal.

And Ed Wright is exactly right..Wright! Start thrashing on that DP car when you start loosing heads up races (and it will happen). You'll love R&R'ing that pile of $900-$1200 convertors you will acquire!

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Not to mention the pink stained T shirts that go with it!
With todays modern low pressure clutches, I can change the static pressure of my clutch to hit harder or softer in less than 10 minutes, 5 if I have an assistant. With the window bellhousing, centrifugal can be changed in another 15 minutes. These minor changes can make a major differance in how the clutch responds. How fast can you change one of those $1000 + convertors in the pits?

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

A stick car is a lot more fun to drive too.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

I would put an automatic in my car.............if I decide to sell it.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Stick is the best fun choice. The clutches that are out there now make it really fun. Also, you can run a true clutchless so look into your options. Mod vs. Super mod Mod can run a 5 speed, SM a 4 speed in SS anyway. If I was going to buy a 4 speed, I would look at the Jerico Hybrid that has a clutchless 4 speed in the 5 speed case.

Only downside is that the rules baby the automatic guys with a weight break. My opinion is that NHRA should re evaluate it and drop it or at least reduce it. Automatics drop a bunch of weight and can run under the minimum weight.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

That statement is just plain false. There is no constant adj on a stick car. Simply not true. Ask Brad Zaskowski. He's pretty damn good to. Check his stats. My 2 cents.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Stick car all the way!!!! You have the choice of todays low pressure clutches, a clutchless transmission and a super stock suspension. To me that is a no brainer. Also, like everybody else has said once you get it right your pretty much done. Especially with a ss car (big tires, 4 link etc...) You don't have to try and hook a 9" tire. Also with the counterweight that you will have you can adjust your rpm 2-400 up or down to adjust for conditions as well without have to make a clutch adjustment. But like Roy said you can make a base pressure adjustment in a mater of 5-10 min and a counterweight adjustment in just a few more than that. In my opinion, the key to making a sintered iron clutch work is how you seat it in, in the first 20 passes. If you seat the clutch in properly it will be your best friend. If you don't you will be chasing your tail and you will end up hating it. I would recommend that you have someone that is running a sintered iron clutch will success help you get started with seating it in. Once you have done that it will be ear to ear smiles all the time. :D

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Thank you everyone, I guess I was concerned about reaction times and maintenance with a stick, I am going to Gforce next friday to order a GF5R clutchless.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

My experience with a stick setup goes back a lot of years, so what I am hearing here now is that they dont require adjustments...And that they are easier than automatics.

Good, then maybe we will put a stick in ours too. The HP factor is more appealing too...

And yes, I do have a nice collection of converters already.

David
The New Hemi Guy

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

I know a guy that recently had a clutchless G-Force (Ford) for sale. It has very few runs on it and is just back from G-Force. Complete with shifter for a whole lot less than new. PM me for details and I'll see of it's still available.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Any clutch recommendations, Gforce suggested 10.5 soft lok from Mcleod.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

That or a Rob Youngblood setup. Jeff Lee will be here to give you his info! Pretty much the only two choices since you need to have the adjustability.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Stick all the way!
The only dis advantages are the b.s. 250lb weight break the slush box cars get in Modified SS like Jim said and you will not be able to put on makeup or text while going down the track.
Get the 10.5 Mcleod soft-lok like G Force suggested, that is what we run in all three of our cars with very little maintenance. I think I made 4-5 clutch adjustments all year in my SS car making close to 100 runs. Even in Chuck D's CJ with a new McLeod clutch and a driver that had never let the clutch go in a race car we had only a couple adjustments to get the new combo set up and a couple more throughout the year.
As far as your reaction times as long as you have a mechanical clutch linkage and NOT a hydraulic clutch linkage your reaction times will be consistent. Your R/T will be a little quicker than a mod car with an auto but that can be adjusted with tires, air gap, suspension and other adjustments.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Advanced offers a 10" Sportsman or Dual 7" Sportsman. McLeod offers a 10.5" (they also offer dual 8" but it is a diaghram pressure-plate). Advanced flywheel and components are custom built to your application all in-house, not shelf items like McLeod. Advanced offers continuous consultation. Good luck getting through to McLeod (now owned by B&M).
10" Advanced is priced the same or nearly the same as McLeod 10.5" (both approximately $2100 with the Dual 7" Sportsman approximately $2900).
McLeod makes a great product. They started the "soft-lok" phenomonen which radically changed the stick-shift drag racing world. You won't go wrong getting a McLeod. Brad Zaskowski has obviously had great results with his McLeod.
And like any good product like McLeod, better ones came later. Advanced took the concept to a higher level in my opinion (and I've run both).
Keep in mind these units are made to fit in a 6.1 SFI bell housing which are in the $500 +/- range. Billet clutches are required to run 6.3 (?) bell housings; typically a $1500-$2500+ unit that will not conform to a stock style floor board / firewall transition.
No, I don't work for either McLeod or Advanced.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Jeff, McLeod also offers a 10" Soft Lok, I`ve been running one in my M/S 85 Mustang for years, as well as a 10 1/2" Soft Lok in my 428 Ford powered bracket car. As for McLeod being owned by B&M, my understanding is that B&M did indeed purchase McLeod a few years back, but enged up selling it back to Red Roberts about a year later. During the B&M tenure, the tech support really suffered, it seemed that the B&M tech guys were always pushing the "Street Twin" dual disc street clutch, even on drag cars. Happily that is no longer the case, although I don`t think that George or Les came back.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

McLeod was saved from B&M ruin by Funny Car owner, Paul Lee. Red was then back with the comapny. Soft lok's are used by the majority of stick racers out there and are a very good product (shelf item or not). You can get a complete 10.5 setup for $1850.00 from Jegs and several guys around the country are authorized re-builders.

Advance is a higher end product and is priced accordingly. Seems to be the choice for those looking for that last bit of ET. I know a few guys who have recently bought them but no results either way on any improvement.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

You may also want to give Tim Hyatt a call. He will hook you up with a soft lock at a good price and give you excellent support to go with it. I go down the track consistently and have minimal maintenance as well, and started with no stick knowledge.

Brad Z is one of the most successful stick racers in the country, I don't think you need to look any farther than that on advice on how to run a stick car.

Matt
SS/AH 114

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Thanks again everyone, it is greatly appreciated. These next questions might be elementary, but bare in mind I have been running .90 racing for years.

1. During burnout am I shifting.
2. Staging, am I holding light brake pressure through line lock and bumping in with clutch.
3. Once staged, the two step is wired to where (best location)
4. If my motors peak torque is 7000, peak hp over 9900, what rpm is the launch to start
testing.
5. With a Gforce, do I have to hold it in gear once I am in 5th.

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

Well, one thing I can tell you is that shifting a clutchless in the water, not a big deal. Shifting a clutch assisted, not good. Think BOOM!

Re: Stick or Automatic
 

McCleod also makes a 10" dual disc for those wondering.rich also 1 is you can shift in the burnout but it's not necessary,its all about wheel speed in the water box.2 yes 3 clutch pedal will give you the most consistant release off the 2 step,look at the rick's switch it is a completely hands free setup for a 2 step setup. 4 would be best answered by others here.5 no as long as it is under load it will hold itself in gear,but if you try to get off the gas and back on it will jump out of gear.