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Dion Hildebrandt 02-13-2014 12:49 PM

Differential heater
 
I was curious as to how other fellow racers have installed a heater in the differentials.
Of course an obvious option is on the exterior of the housing...but does the heat actually penetrate the thick iron of the center section?
Is putting the pad inside the center section a good option with all the moving parts inside?
or would a block heater type element be the way to go?

The differential for my application is a 12 bolt chevy with a LPW cover if that matters at all

Tom Nolan 02-13-2014 02:16 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
I just slide a 500w light under the rear diff. About 30 min and she is about as hot as I dare get it. I only do this for class eliminations. What's it worth? Not as much as you hope!

Bill Edgeworth 02-13-2014 02:41 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
I use a immersion cartridge heater screwed into the drain plug

http://www.mcmaster.com/#cartridge-heaters/=qofs8g

Dion Hildebrandt 02-13-2014 02:50 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Nolan (Post 420500)
I just slide a 500w light under the rear diff. About 30 min and she is about as hot as I dare get it. I only do this for class eliminations. What's it worth? Not as much as you hope!

Yeah I realize that, just dreaming out loud as I was servicing my differential. Had a discussion about lubrications the other day and just got the brain matter flowing is all. At any rate something is better than nothing...right?

Alex Denysenko 02-13-2014 03:43 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
have heated the gear oil several times never saw a thing out of it
so we just use the good gear oil and that does the trick

Ed Wright 02-13-2014 04:39 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
My friend's recently sold Pro Stocker had an oil tank/pan heater screwed into a welded-in bung in the back of the rear end housing. The cord was zip-tied to the left wheelie bar so it was easy to plug in to warm up the gear lube before each round. I thought about adding one to mine. Easy to weld the bung to the rear cover of my 12 bolt. Just use it for tough heads ups, class, etc.

Heard of guys running Dexron ATF for gear lube (One guy said "all the time"). Not sure about that deal. I'm too old to weld up the gears in the lights and go for a ride. LOL

Bob Bender 02-13-2014 05:26 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 420517)
My friend's recently sold Pro Stocker had an oil tank/pan heater screwed into a welded-in bung in the back of the rear end housing. The cord was zip-tied to the left wheelie bar so it was easy to plug in to warm up the gear lube before each round. I thought about adding one to mine. Easy to weld the bung to the rear cover of my 12 bolt. Just use it for tough heads ups, class, etc.

Heard of guys running Dexron ATF for gear lube (One guy said "all the time"). Not sure about that deal. I'm too old to weld up the gears in the lights and go for a ride. LOL


Ed' I have used atf a lot in slow cars and never hurt the gears.

Mile High 02-13-2014 06:12 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Use a light weight synthetic rear gear lube. :)

Jeff

Dion Hildebrandt 02-13-2014 06:13 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 420517)
My friend's recently sold Pro Stocker had an oil tank/pan heater screwed into a welded-in bung in the back of the rear end housing. The cord was zip-tied to the left wheelie bar so it was easy to plug in to warm up the gear lube before each round. I thought about adding one to mine. Easy to weld the bung to the rear cover of my 12 bolt. Just use it for tough heads ups, class, etc.

Heard of guys running Dexron ATF for gear lube (One guy said "all the time"). Not sure about that deal. I'm too old to weld up the gears in the lights and go for a ride. LOL

This is the stuff that I was envisioning, "outside of the box" keep it coming

Tim Kish 02-13-2014 06:13 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Bender (Post 420526)
Ed' I have used atf a lot in slow cars and never hurt the gears.

Good reference point - FWD cars use ATF to lube the differential......

HandOverFist 02-13-2014 06:58 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
For that matter you could probably completely drain the rear-end for one pass without damage.

Mike Jones 02-13-2014 09:28 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 420517)
My friend's recently sold Pro Stocker had an oil tank/pan heater screwed into a welded-in bung in the back of the rear end housing. The cord was zip-tied to the left wheelie bar so it was easy to plug in to warm up the gear lube before each round. I thought about adding one to mine. Easy to weld the bung to the rear cover of my 12 bolt. Just use it for tough heads ups, class, etc.

Heard of guys running Dexron ATF for gear lube (One guy said "all the time"). Not sure about that deal. I'm too old to weld up the gears in the lights and go for a ride. LOL

I helped on a Comp car years ago, where ATF was tried in the diff.
It ran E/SM at the time (old format) and right on the record.
It was losing nearly .10 each pass.
After 3 qualifying attempts, we could hardly push the car.
Tore it up pretty good...
Used gear oil from then on.

Ed Wright 02-13-2014 09:42 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
That ^^^^ doesn't really surprise me. I never had the nerve to try it. I appreciate hearing that. The guy talking about running it all the time has a slow et bracket car. Like 13 seconds. He never mentiond testing it, he was just sure it had to be "worth something".

I ran it half full of gear lube for a couple of weeks. (Listening to the wrong guy) I had changed something else at the same time (should know better by now) When I filled it back up I picked up a good half a MPH with it topped off.

gsa612 02-13-2014 10:42 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Run Joe Gibbs qualifying oil,you don't need a heater with it. gsa612

Ed Wright 02-13-2014 10:50 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsa612 (Post 420560)
Run Joe Gibbs qualifying oil,you don't need a heater with it. gsa612

Wonder if anybody has tested that stuff?

gsa612 02-13-2014 11:15 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 420561)
Wonder if anybody has tested that stuff?

A few years back I went to a T&T, drained out the RP and put in the JG.My buddy brought his car we made a pass together he lost a hun.from his previous run (DA was the same) and I picked up 2.I left it in for another few races. I know some guys run it in B&C cars (12 bolt).Mine is a 10 bolt btw. gsa612

james schaechter 02-13-2014 11:21 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
I tried some stuff that looked like atf. The guy I got it from said comp and prostock guys used it. It wore out the ring gear in about 6 runs. It didn't break, it just wore down the teeth. I love superlight gear lube, but this stuff did not work for me. The redline superlight weight is great and I never had an issue with parts wear. I would think the gibbs stuff would be similar, but I have not tried that. Our car was a 2900lb stick stocker Nova.

Dion Hildebrandt 02-14-2014 11:24 AM

Re: Differential heater
 
The discussion that prompted this thread was around gear and transmission oils. The JG qualifier, and the ATI (also JG) and the properties were the focus and the pro's and con's of heat put to them. I guess the qualifier rear lube doesn't really like too much heat put to it ,somewhere around 160 degrees or so, and some of these heating pads and elements go way above that. The synthetic trans oil apparently works the same cold or hot so that is a push.

As I was working on my diff ,I was curious just how a measureable amount of heat could be applied and if it was worth it. I have heard about the ATF in the diff before but no evidence of any good qualities of using it, I assumed the gears would be sacrificed, as rear drive diffs weren't designed for that type of lube.

PS thanx for the pm's some really great ideas out there, I love the outside of the box thinking

Bill Edgeworth 02-14-2014 06:49 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Dion,

There are a few issues with this conversation. First off you really cannot take anyone’s advice on what to use in your combo unless they have the exact same combo right down to surface treatment on the gears. Where ATF may be the best choice for lets say a 4 cyl FWD 200 horsepower stocker its certainly not a good choice for some blown 900 horsepower new stocker. Its all about the pressure and surface speed on the gear faces. Best thing you can do is just try a few different oils and figure out whats best for your circumstances. You do not even have to rely on a time slip to do this. Just measure the differential temperature before and after a run. You can use a heat gun or a more accurate measurement can be taken but using an eye type thermocouple under one of your cover bolts. The fluid that causes the lowest temperature rise in a run is what’s best.
For those that want to use a heater it can easily be temperature controlled with the thermocouple under one of the cover bolts and a digital control. For me this is what I used to do when I ran 75 weight oil. The last couple years I have been running the Red Line super light and have no need to heat it

art leong 02-14-2014 08:12 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Edgeworth (Post 420667)
Dion,

There are a few issues with this conversation. First off you really cannot take anyone’s advice on what to use in your combo unless they have the exact same combo right down to surface treatment on the gears. Where ATF may be the best choice for lets say a 4 cyl FWD 200 horsepower stocker its certainly not a good choice for some blown 900 horsepower new stocker. Its all about the pressure and surface speed on the gear faces. Best thing you can do is just try a few different oils and figure out whats best for your circumstances. You do not even have to rely on a time slip to do this. Just measure the differential temperature before and after a run. You can use a heat gun or a more accurate measurement can be taken but using an eye type thermocouple under one of your cover bolts. The fluid that causes the lowest temperature rise in a run is what’s best.
For those that want to use a heater it can easily be temperature controlled with the thermocouple under one of the cover bolts and a digital control. For me this is what I used to do when I ran 75 weight oil. The last couple years I have been running the Red Line super light and have no need to heat it

Bill I know of some 1400 HP FWD cars that use ATF in their differentials They have a 170 plus trap speed.
Could be the gears are cut differently (Not Hypoid?). But they use it I know.

Ed Wright 02-14-2014 08:32 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by art leong (Post 420673)
Bill I know of some 1400 HP FWD cars that use ATF in their differentials They have a 170 plus trap speed.
Could be the gears are cut differently (Not Hypoid?). But they use it I know.

Think load from car weight could be part of it too?

Bill Edgeworth 02-14-2014 09:14 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 420678)
Think load from car weight could be part of it too?

Yes, just equates back to pressure on the gear face. And what Art mentioned how the gears are cut can affect both how much the gears must actually slide against each other and the actual amount of contact area they have. As for a 1400 hp FWD car using ATF could it be due to necessity as the transmission and differential share the same oil?

art leong 02-14-2014 10:06 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright (Post 420678)
Think load from car weight could be part of it too?

Ed I'm pretty sure the way the gears are cut for a RWD application is the difference. Our ring and pinions make contact in a completely different area.

art leong 02-14-2014 10:08 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Edgeworth (Post 420682)
Yes, just equates back to pressure on the gear face. And what Art mentioned how the gears are cut can affect both how much the gears must actually slide against each other and the actual amount of contact area they have. As for a 1400 hp FWD car using ATF could it be due to necessity as the transmission and differential share the same oil?

Yes they share the same oil.

tommy d 02-15-2014 11:34 AM

Re: Differential heater
 
I have a bunch of free Valvoline 75/140 synthetic gear lube that I would like to try. We have a Dana 60 and have had 0 problems in 9 years of hard racing so I'm afraid to change anything. What do you guys think? Just looking for consistency. We now use 80/90 conventional.

Damn Yankee 04-03-2014 05:50 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gsa612 (Post 420564)
A few years back I went to a T&T, drained out the RP and put in the JG.My buddy brought his car we made a pass together he lost a hun.from his previous run (DA was the same) and I picked up 2.I left it in for another few races. I know some guys run it in B&C cars (12 bolt).Mine is a 10 bolt btw. gsa612

gsa, which JG oil were you using for your differential? I was looking at their website and they list the L9 thru L11, the L11 being their qualifying oil which they say can be used for short periods of time.

Mike Pearson 04-03-2014 06:06 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tommy d (Post 420742)
I have a bunch of free Valvoline 75/140 synthetic gear lube that I would like to try. We have a Dana 60 and have had 0 problems in 9 years of hard racing so I'm afraid to change anything. What do you guys think? Just looking for consistency. We now use 80/90 conventional.

I use it in my Dana and the gears last literally for ever. I am sure I get way over 1000 runs and have never had one fail with the auto trans. I did try some lighter oil and the gear wore out fast. No improvement in ET with the lighter oil so I went back to the Valvoline synthetic.

randy wilson 04-04-2014 09:22 PM

Re: Differential heater
 
I don't know if what I do works or not, but it makes me feel good about it. Here goes. I run 1\2 quart synthetic auto trans fluid, 1\2 quart 50 wt. synthetic racing motor oil, and 1 quart synthetic 80\90 gear lube. We put over 100 runs on a 6.20 gear before changing gears. Mostly 1\8th mile. A stick car leaving at 9,200, weighing 3040 lbs. The only thing I see that's changed is we used to get about 150, to 170 runs on a nodular center section then an aluminum through bolt. Anyone ran into that? Makes me wonder if the nodular might actually take less drag because of distortion. I never run it low.


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