Resurrecting the Rambler
 

It's finally time. I'm gonna do this even though it will be a long and arduous task. Hope you're not expecting instant gratification, because with the few hours of free time I get to work on this car, this will take every bit of about two years.
I'm fairly new to this forum, but have watched it closely since July of 2015. I always had a part of me that thought I could be competitive in the Class car arena, and I guess it's time to find out. It was in September of '15 that I finally was pushed over the edge after talking with some local Stocker racers I knew from the past, and some others who were recently racing Stock at the St. Louis divisional and supported the dream of mine. Everyone tells me I'm crazy, but yet they tell me to go ahead and do it! What do they know that I don't???
So here we go...

This build will be a very systematic approach. Most of it will be along the lines of the Dime Rocket builds (which I absolutely love!), and its about the only way I can even do this project. My intention is to use the sideline money I get from repairing old pinballs for people and investing (some might call it wasting) the proceeds back into this race car. This keeps the family money separate. Meanwhile I have a real job at a NAPA store which keeps me tied up for 45 hours a week for 2.5 more years until I can retire. But---it also has the supreme benefit of buying all my parts at store cost. It's all a delicate balance but I'll handle it.

I must admit I've been working on the car since early October, but I'll start at the beginning. We'll eventually get caught up and current.
After a lot of thought, perusing the Classification guides site on here endlessly, (THANK YOU DWIGHT! ) and looking over what AMC cars I already had that were suitable, because everyone who knows me realizes that's the only brand I identify with, I decided on this one: a 1979 AMC AMX running a 258 6 cylinder. This car which is the Spirit model and will have to have the AMX package added to it, uses a 2 bbl carb, and I've got enough pieces here from my 30 years of driving, racing, and collecting these cars to do nearly anything I'd really need. There's a half acre of old AMC's out back...

Not much to look at now after sitting around forever bleaching the paint off it, but its complete and running, and I had a little ancient race history of racing it in Street class back in the early 2000's at Coles County Dragway to look back on. It was absolutely bone stock clear down to the emission stuff and air pump, had 110,000 miles on it, and it ran a best of 11.10 in the 8th mile with my 210 lb butt in the seat.

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

Having to resize the pictures, will add them soon.

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1980 Spirit, this is the selected "core" for T/SA .

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...and when finished we should have something like this:

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Not necessary to run the car as an AMX. That package was cosmetics only and just adds weight and the spoilers will actually slow you down a bit The 258 got some HP taken off it last year also.

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

Cool !! Love builds like this with the lesser common cars.

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Hi Ed,
My reasoning on making the car into the AMX model was to place it naturally in T at 19.38, which according to the specs allows for only 57 lbs to be removed. This of course gives me the chance to add or remove weight to place the car in R or U depending on where I'm running at, so I went for the middle ground after sizing up the type of car combos I'd be running against.
As with most things I do, ya always gotta have a Plan B! Maybe a C too...and in this league Plan D might not be a bad idea either.
Appreciate any and all tips on the AMC's, thanks!

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

Thanks Dave,
And speaking of lesser known models not seen in Stock, I researched hard on the car on the left in this picture, but it looked like I just wasn't going to be able to wring enough power out of a 232 six.

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

Iam really interested in following your build. Years ago I worked at a
AMC dealer. Always liked the Spirit AMX. Loved the Rambler
Americans too

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I wish you'd kept some 79-80 AMX parts when you were working there! Those AMX option pieces are year specific and fairly rare. The flares and spoilers were made of a material that ages badly and guys are reporting they're rotting off their cars now. No plans for repro stuff yet as far as I can find out. I'll be fabricating mine if it comes to that unless good used originals turn up.

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

OK. So to get things in perspective as this goes forward, the car and class have been selected, and the physical work of the transformation needs to start. But before the car is taken in for teardown, the groundwork of the plan of attack can be laid out. Somehow, according to calculations, I've got to get at least 225 HP at the rear wheels using a max of 270 cubic inches, a crummy intake, not nearly enough valve lift on puny valves, a small 2 bbl carb that will be gasping for air after 660 feet, and this has to somehow propel 3020 lbs down the track in 14.40 or less. I do love a challenge!
I'm sure the build veterans of the sport will heartily disagree now and then with my methods, but the possible lessons I might learn the hard way that could help way down the road had to be considered too. So did the financial side of things, meaning I'll have to start small and gradually iron things out.
Bear in mind I have plenty of spare "everythings" for this car, and if something is installed initially just to keep progress moving forward some, chances are it's backup part is being 'romanced' somewhere in the background for the future. As I learn about what works good and get spare things done, things will inevitably change.


First: the Spirit was hauled into a friend's auto shop for a look underneath at things, and mainly for the use of his lift to ease in pulling the drivetrain out. Once there, it didn't take long to learn the condition of things might change my mind drastically. The 15 years of the previous owner's daily drives to a factory day after day in all kinds of Midwest weather and a 12 year sit in the weeds after I was done playing with it in 2003 had no doubt helped the winter salt treatments here in IL take their toll.
Turns out the entire unibody is rotten. So bad there is no saving it.

Time to look for another car.

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Take a look in the Classifieds here. Dated 7/24/15, Mike Meier has a Spirit roller for sale. -Al

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

This is an interesting Stocker Build.

The AMX straight 6 Engine is still popular with the Jeep crowd.
Golen Engine hops them up with Stroker kits and ported upgraded heads.

Good luck.

Dan

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

You're right there, Dan, the Jeep crowd is the one experimenting more than any other group with this engine. A lot of their efforts can translate over to what I'm pursuing, so they were pretty helpful. The main thing they know is that revving this engine much about 5000 rpm doesn't help anything. The power curve falls flat on its face and parts attrition goes way up. That told me that the ET I need must all be developed in the 1/8th mile because there won't be much gain after that. It's all about torque on this one, not raw HP made by wringing the guts out of it.

Back to the build:
At this point (early Oct as I catch you up), I'm looking at a rusted out piece of junk I'll have to part out. A new body is needed, and I still preferred to go with the Spirit platform rather than switch to something that classes differently, so looked around at what I had in my own stable of cars and saw this 'jewel' that had been sitting in front of the pinball shop since 1993. It's a weather-worn 1982 Spirit GT that was originally a 151 4 cyl 4 speed car, no engine or trans, that had a straight good body, that I had bought back then with the idea of throwing a V8 and an automatic in it and bracket racing it eventually. There was some initial work I did to it right after hauling it home back then, the best part of which was installing an 8 3/4 Chrysler rear end that has the same width as the original tiny AMC rear. The pinball business was getting going good about that time for me, so I shelved the project due to building the business and let the car sit where you see it in the picture. It was still there in the same spot as of October 2015. Man, where do the years go??
Now then: is it rotten underneath like the '80 Spirit was too? Going to have to pull this one out and take a full assessment.
On to Plan B!

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FYI If you go with the Spirit that came with the 151 engine you'll need the disc brake rotors and pads specific to that engine, they're different than the 6 cylinder cars.

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(Early October now)
So we clear out the jungle brush and half a ton of assorted junk that got piled up behind this 82 car, and try to avoid ticking off the inhabitants of a nearby hornet nest, ( how fitting is that? Hornets at an AMC collectors house?) . Aired up the rotted tires, hooked up a chain to the resident 4wd Dakota and yanked her out from around the shade tree.

And her she is in all her leaf-encrusted moldy glory. The remains of a dud 350 Chevy engine is parked in the engine bay underneath the plastic.
Time to jack this one up and take a look underneath at everything. Hopefully not a repeat of Plan A.

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It's a diamond in the rough. Love that spoiler.

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First bath in probably 25 years, what a change! Outside now looking much better, got to get underneath and peck on a few places next.

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http://classracer.com/classforum/att...2&d=1451686311


http://classracer.com/classforum/att...3&d=1451686311


http://classracer.com/classforum/att...4&d=1451686311

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

Thanks Alan

Brian......My Spirit is still for sale as a roller w/ a disassembled 304 - 2bbl. I have less time to deal with racing since changing jobs in August. I don't recall if you were someone that already contacted me but feel free to shoot me an email at mmeier1167@yahoo.com.

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(Catching up to late October)
Got underneath the red Spirit and initially things look pretty solid other than a place in the floor right behind the driver seat. Wonder if the mangy possum nest I found there had anything to do with that?
Loaded her up on the trailer and took it into the auto shop for a real good going-over. Very solid underneath as it turns out, so the Ziebart people did well on this one. Found their sticker on the driver door jamb.

Now we've got something very suitable to work with. This car is an original manual steering manual brake stick car, so its a great platform to use. There will have to be one important piece changed right at the beginning, and it's a monumental headache. I know this because I've done one before. On AMC cars you have to have the proper engine cross member in place for the type of engine you're wanting or the engine mounts won't line up. The 4 cyl one will have to come out and be replaced with the 6 cyl one out of the blue 80 car. The nasty part of this is that the lower control arms bolt into this cross member, and to remove those means removing almost everything else suspension related first. And I'll get to do this TWICE! Get out the breaker bars...
The blue 80 car now gets parted out so I can use a lot of things off it. And here we go. You'll notice that when the dirty work was done it was just a little bit hard to steer due to an "alignment problem". Getting the hulk back up on the trailer took a while!

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One of the coolest looking factory rims from "back in the day" on the blue one.


http://classracer.com/classforum/att...8&d=1451715323

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It will be good to see another old Rambler out racing. The 258 2 bbl can be competitive but only the 77 got the 2 HP reduction, 79 is still 150 (more than the 302 2bbl Fords). I tried to get the 79 reduced but NHRA wouldn't bite.
My car is a natural U car, had to move it V to stay away from the 302 Fords.
You're welcome to anything I've learned over the last 7 years, send me a PM.

Jim Mantle V/SA 6632 79 Pacer Wagon

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Thank you Jim,
I've admired your Pacer from afar while doing my research, definitely would like to pick your brain some seeing as how essentially you run the same drivetrain. First I'm in need of some decent headers, but having trouble finding AMC car headers. The internet is thick with Jeep stuff but not sure those are going to work here.
I'll send a PM to you.

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

(Early November on the catch-up)
The 1980 blue car has been picked of everything immediately useful and has been laid to rest out back at the Rambler Ranch, AKA Pinball Heaven. Time to get serious on transforming this red '82 Spirit into the '79 AMX model it needs to run as.
Big-time clean-up on the car first just so I can work on it. Both door handles are broke, (every AMC guy is laughing now reading this because ALL AMC's break these flat pot metal door handles), and crawling in and out of the rear hatch, which is electric solenoid operated and also now disabled because there's no battery in the car, is not my preferred method of entry. Ordered a couple new outside door handles, but put a spare useable one I had on the driver door so I could get going on cleaning up the squallid interior. No telling how many cats had kittens in this thing, and the possum leavings and damage are everywhere, even some dashboard pieces are torn up. Spares from the other car will go in though. The animals got in through the shifter hole by chewing away the rubber shifter boot, there's nothing left of it. Before and after interior pics below. Once vacuumed out, an industrial odor-removing chemical for school carpeting disasters was used to get this thing tolerable again. Who said building a car was glamorous??
The engine and trans from the '80 needed a bath real bad so those went to the car wash in the back of the Dakota. That poor truck sees nothing but abuse from me, it's kind of like an old farm truck, but that was it's purpose when I got it for cheap already pre-wrecked in the back. Once the engine and trans are clean, I'll take them to my workplace where it's dry and heated.

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(Mid November)
I have some parts ordered to get the front end work done, turns out doing an AMC car is not quite as easy as opening a catalog or making a list from an internet site.
Since I work at a NAPA store, getting the regular suspension and steering replacement pieces wasn't that bad, but trying to get the trick shocks and springs took some research. Turns out I did OK on the shocks, which are the same type as a lot of Mustangs from way back when, but the springs turned out to be a problem. Despite a well known Florida company's listings that say they fit the early Fords from the '70's along with 71-up Javelins, Hornets, Gremlins, Spirits and such--they don't work. The spring holders on the upper control arms require a much larger diameter spring distance across the bottom to fit in right. The top coil diameter would have worked, so I guess they were half good for my application. I had to leave the 4 cyl original coil springs in place for now until I get something figured out, may see about a re-work on my spare upper A-arms I have from the '80 car to move the spring perches inward at some later time. The rest of the pieces like bushings and ball joints went in place as expected.
I have a whole new appreciation for mechanics who do front end work day after day. Dirty hard work! Hats off to you guys.

Since I'm being loaned a bay in an auto shop, getting the car mobile as soon as possible so it can move out if the bay if needed is kind of primary. I'm not putting the new steering parts on just yet, need to concentrate on getting the cross member switched out and everything that attaches to it back together ASAP so the body can at least become a roller again.
You'll notice the similarity of the bad wheel alignment of the red car to how the blue one ended up in previous pictures once the cross member came out. Once the lower control arms come out of it, they just flop everywhere.
This part of the build is no fun.

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

Why not use the original 4 cyl springs? They would promote weight transfer.

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I know I am late to mention this. But was there not a AMC just like this for sale on here not to long ago? I don't think it sold. It was the 304/2bbl combo I believe and ran in Q? It was complete with parts. It is something to consider.

Robert

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

I agree! By the time all of the nonessential parts and pieces are removed off the front end it will be close with the 4 cyl springs. Money to be spent elsewhere. Trick springs are overrated in my opinion.

Cool build! Good Luck

Sean

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Love the AMC build, I always rooted for Ed F. When he ran his gremlin. Would you consider posting photos of the Rambler Ranch ? Pinball Heaven ? Thanks ....

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My gremlin had the 4 cylinder spring. Worked for me.
Thank you for the kind words. Sometimes I do miss the car.

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Ed, all the other guys I've talked with say you're a legend.

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I did give it some consideration, but basically its the same thing as what I already have here in my red '82 . I planned from the very start to run a lower class like R,T, or U, and a V8 AMC car won't get there. The 304 V8 cross member in the car for sale would have to get changed out to a 6 cyl model one, necessitating the very same ordeal I'm going through now removing the 4 cyl one, and it had some other things done to it that I would want a little different. All in all, it was about a toss-up. Certainly nothing wrong with the seller's car as far as the build, if I hadn't had this spare '82 Spirit sitting here, I'd probably have went for it!

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I hope you're right about the springs Sean. The 100,000 miles of wear they have is a cause for concern to me, but right now I need them in there to hold the front end up!
While we're on the subject of springs and such, I have one shot of a nearly completed right side suspension.

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Newly rebuilt right side suspension installed less brake pieces. Amazing what some freshening up, wire wheel clean-up and some semi-gloss black paint can do. The engine cross member is in place now and the car will roll again.
Next time the auto shop bay is empty on a weekend, the left side gets the treatment.

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

Brian,
FWIW my current springs in my car are original 78 Mercury Zephyr 4 cyl springs from a previous car with over 100,000 miles that I had a 351 C in. Those same springs have been in my Mustang since 1998.

As long as your springs have not been heated I cannot image them being a problem.

There is nothing better than the sense of accomplishment on you building your own car, it may not be cheaper, but you will know every nut bolt and wire in the car.

Think about adding front tie downs into the front crossmember. It will make loading and unloading the car faster and more secure too!

Sean

Re: Resurrecting the Rambler
 

Thanks for your info Sean. It's not so much that I was afraid of spring fatigue or wear, the right side one was a handful with the spring compressor getting it out and back in, but more so that they might not end up transferring the weight changes on the front end on a launch in a fashion to really help me any. For now though, they have to stay there whether they're close to optimum or not.

On your tie-down idea, not sure other than welding loops or tabs onto the cross member how you mean to do this. And could this constitute "modifying the frame" in the rulebook sense? Don't need any surprises at first tech session.

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Good luck and have fun.

Speaking of frame modifications and what's legal; this may not be; from post #26: "I had to leave the 4 cyl original coil springs in place for now until I get something figured out, may see about a re-work on my spare upper A-arms I have from the '80 car to move the spring perches inward at some later time."
Others would know better than me, it's hard to tell what's okay these days.

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i'm sure this isn't the ranch you're talking about but....http://www.ramblerranch.com/rr/

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I used some old "westin" running board brackets sandwiched between the frt bumper brackets on my American, i'll see if I can get some pictures today and see if i'm smart enough to post them here IF anybody is interested.
btw, i'm using 6cyl springs but it's a trunion car...