Gator class teardowns
 

Was wondering if anybody was tore down??





Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

I did not see or hear about any teardowns. The tech guys did heavily scrutinize a pair or Kraco 6x9 speakers in the rear deck of PJ North's Old School Cutty however. That's no joke.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Hey Rusty, that's disappointing, not that I like getting torn down but that's what keeps our classes legit. How can NHRA give the horsepower adjustments they just did without at least tearing them down to see if they were even legal, not fair for the whole combo to get hit with hp without knowing if their legal or not. IMHO





Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Exactly! I was under the impression that they would start tearing down on automatic hits. An example of this was last year's Rockingham division when Daren Poole-Adams was torn down for what I thought was a -1.20 run.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

James, We are back racing after some years off, but it used to be, when we had class they would tear down a handful of cars keeping everybody on their toes. We were in that group more than we wanted to be, but it was all in making it legit. Hope this isn't the future of our classes.





Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Oh ***** now I got get our old school cutty out of the trailer crawl in the trunk and make sure the factory speakers are in there

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Welcome to the New Improved NHRA.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

With all due respect, there isn't even an entry tech inspection anymore, just a random spot check at some point during qualifying. The tech department appears to have been gutted by budget cuts just like most every other aspect of the company that is representative to the sportsman racer. You actually think there is manpower to do teardown? Simply not happening. If you want to cheat and can somehow feel good about yourself or your accomplishments, now is your time...

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

I've already got my "no-teardown" combination. A 400 short block with an injected 305 top end, claimed as an injected 305. I figure I will be able to run it so soft that it will go 3 or 4 seasons without even needing a freshen-up. I think we've all just got to "get into" this deal, and we'll see how good it will be for us.:D

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

I wonder with the cutbacks of NHRA personnel if teardowns will only happen in the case of a dispute from a fellow racer(s) ?

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

What Dan said!

A 400 will suck those thin TPI tubes flat.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Dan, think most have realized this is the new reality and I (and perhaps many others) appreciate your public acknowledgement of it given your stature in Class racing. Unfortunately, the sports world offers far too many examples where people were easily influenced by 'fame' to blatantly break the rules. Baseball doping, electric motors within the frame rails of bicycles, etc demonstrate that the peers of such cheaters are reluctant to call them out. One has to wonder if the current 'tech' (non-teardown) approach will extend even to Indy and if so then what happens? Perhaps NHRA takes another .3 off the indexes because people can suddenly easily go 1.5 under? Are we then just competing in 'crate motor' classes?

One of the downsides to the Gators great attendance (partially due to weather of course) is that it might reinforce the NHRA notion that their current approach is correct as evidenced by a better bottom line. However the playing field changes; however, I'm sure the winners will do that by virtue of hard work and true skill...good luck in your quest for 100 (and many more).

An aside on the Gators, did anybody else notice that with two pair left in the second round of Stock class eliminations that NHRA brought out the Leah Drag Pak/ Papa John Camaro 'match race' and that they had to pull the tractors back twice so that class eliminations could resume? Ridiculous....about as much as the first round of Top Fuel on Sunday when the 'filler' cars made embarrassing showings....they might as well go to eight car fields and save everyone the time. Face it; when Connie, John, and Don finally get too old their show will fold, supposedly to be replaced by 64 car Pro Mod fields with the assorted belt sander, no prep drag radial classes thrown in to round out the program.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Sad really sad, maybe it will get better, we can only hope!! Good luck on #100!!





Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

It's a shame that you pay for your membership so NHRA can do their do diligence and they don't. A pair of tech people came around and sealed my carburetor, I though for sure I was going to come apart, but no, they did it to everyone. The policing of racers is put by the wayside to get the show on, not fair to racers that toe the line.

Casey Miles
248H

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Hey, I know nobody would blatantly cheat in D7 or have 5-10 people knowingly help them blatantly cheat either.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

This not about anybody cheating, it's about NHRA keeping integrity in the sport, which everybody who races with a membership paid for. NHRA is too easily let off the hook because of their claim of man power.

Casey Miles
248H

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

I thought the gators always has great attendance?

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

My post regarding my "no teardown" combination was obviously a joke, but the more posts I read, the more serious the issue becomes to me. Dan is absolutely correct in his assessment of the situation. Stock and Super Stock have really never been "fair", because there have always been combinations that were unrealistically soft (at least for a while) and the OEMs have certainly had influence on rules and indexes, but if we are entering a period where there is effectively no tech inspection or teardown, I think as "class racers", we're done. Like everything else in life, the distribution of racers will fall under a Bell curve: there will be people who will adhere to the rules as a matter of integrity and pride, those who will be ethically OK with "bending" the rules, and those who will outright cheat. I think of what our society would be like without any police-type presence and I don't have to exaggerate much to assume that we would quickly become a lawless people, ruled by savages. With no penalty for cheating, those who would otherwise cheat freely (if there was no "cost" associated with being caught), will. Over the years, NHRA has completely lost it's way, and has entirely forgotten why it came into existence in the first place. I know it's been discussed to death, but it might be time for a Sportsman-only sanctioning body, that focuses ONLY on the racing, not $75 spectator passes, $30 t-shirts and $5 hot dogs.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

There are only two things that keeps cheating off of the race track...integrity or paranoia. The first you don't have to worry about...those who have it carry it all the time ..the second set need the rules in place to keep in line. So we need some simple paranoia back in the rules again...how about ALL WINNERS UNDERGO TECHNICAL INSPECTION! Note...I don't wan't that defined what that means..tear down..maybe..look for electronic goodies...maybe. The argument of "what happens if they don't pass?" can be easily dealt with with simple rule changes. Since NHRA doesn't have the manpower or talent to inspect all class cars for legality in the beginning...at least have the manpower to inspect 1 car at the end. Personally I would rather tear my car down at the end of the race and load it up and put it together at home. Ever leave a race after winning or runner up? You are not going anywhere for hours anyway. BRING BACK PARANOIA! ALL WINNERS UNDERGO TECHNICAL INSPECTION!

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Maybe I should start a separate thread for this and I will if it gains traction. I hear from many people who are currently involved and have been involved with NHRA the comment that "Stock and Super Stock costs NHRA money". That may be from management stating that there are costs associated with Stock and Super Stock that other categories do not have (which would include extra tech expense), or that they actually lose money on Stock and Super Stock because of the extra operating expense. I have never seen actual business level documents that have a cost breakdown associated with the categories (My! That would be a novel consideration!). Let's assume that NHRA's continuing reduction of tech services for Stock and Super Stock is partially due to the costs associated with maintaining an acceptable level of tech support. The question is, would you as a racer be willing to pay an extra "Tech fee" for National, Divisional and National Open races to ensure adequate tech service which would include guaranteed teardowns and monitoring?

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

X100!!





Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Dwight, I was thinking about some type of tech service when I heard there were no teardowns, we need something or we're just bracket racers spending too much $$.




Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Started a long post and realised I was parroting what fordteacherguy said.
So, to recap;
1) ALL WINNERS UNDERGO TECHNICAL INSPECTION
2) "what happens if they don't pass?" rule changes
3) I would rather tear my car down at the end of the race and load it up and put it together at home


I think nhra has thrown up their hands and won't do tear downs unless another racer protests. The benefit for nhra is bare minimal cost to tech, no cost to police the class. Basically show up with your cars to run your little race during our race weekend with your own tech or whatever it is you class guys do. Don't bother us, just feed us $$ for using the track.

I remember seeing clippings of old nhra races (50-60's) where the winner was deemed illegal and lost the trophy so it wouldn't be the first time this has been done.

Sliding more towards the "factory appearing" racing then tight ruled class racing.....

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Most people here seem to be concerned with tech infractions of a mechanical nature involving performance and I agree that this could be an issue, but the electronic "cheating" is my biggest worry. Mostly a Super Stock problem. We could easily have a dozen (or multiples of) already among us. No tech - no risk of getting caught. I would consider paying an extra fee to police this even though we should not have to.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

An extra fee, what a novel thought, nhra doesn't bleed enough from racers so now you're volunteering money?

I got an idea, how about they use some of the membership fee's to pay for tech? I think most would gladly give up the other perks (magazine subscription, etc) Lol!

Edit: while you're at it, might as well throw some $$ their way to pay for allowing S/SS on the track during their races. (oh wait, that's supposed to be called entry fee isn't it?)

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

You want tears downs? They don't even tech cars ..lol They don't even do piston and rods at INDY ! Ship has sailed but I will keep going

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

You would think since the new car manufacturers have jumped back in to S/SS spending millions of dollars, they would have discussed this with NHRA making sure that everybody was following the rules. But maybe not...

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

I was told by an NHRA official last year that all 1.20 or more under runs would result in a teardown. My reply was that I thought it was a great idea.............

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

What about the .500 under racer that goes 4,5 or 6 rounds using bogus electronics? At what time are they going to check their combo?

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Must be for division races only......

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Let's stop talking about throwing more money NHRA way, it's bad enough that their bs insurance donation which there's no recovery if no occurance happens. I paid my membership, my car's permanent number, that should be enough to guarantee that the playing field is managed with integrity. NHRA needs to rethink their money's going to the controllers of the association. We need a lawyer in our mitt's to bring an action against them for miss appropriations of membership money's

Casey Miles
248H

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Until the package that I put together is as good as it needs to be, that is not an issue to me. I seriously doubt that some of the guys that you think are running electronics actually are. Some of these guys really are that good.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

If you can run the index you could possibly be competing with a electronics "cheater" in the other lane. And I agree that some of these guys are that good and I applaud them. It's the few, and I have been stung twice before he got caught and bounced out of the Association.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

the quality of tech people has diminished and this is not a jab at any person, who the hell knows how to accurately pour a hemi s/s piston to make sure the compression ratio is correct? I know I can the bartons , wescott and a few others that race the cars but can anyone that is a nhra tech official? ill bet maybe one or two can or have. so I would assume its the same for all the accepted combos not enough experience to properly police so just let it go?
I have said this for many years I can see nhra turning stock and super stock into an "all dial" eliminations that way the only policing is weight ,fuel and tear down if you set a record.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

If you take out the heads-up runs class racing is finished.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

I'm not saying take them out but the writing is on the wall , nhra does not want to or cannot effectively police things and I believe that's next.

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

This thread has me thinking.

I know I am not the only one that enjoys trying to set records.

I wonder how these cutbacks will affect tech at National Opens and Div. events where we are allowed to set records ?

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

There's no excuses for NHRA not to do their jobs. They could offer apprenticeships to Auto tech schools to get new blood who could learn to pour for compression on any vehicle. NHRA has the tools, need people who knows how to use them. Give me a reason that any of the administrators of the NHRA should get paid the money they do with the ship sinking?

Casey Miles
248H

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

You're not, I grew up at the races with my uncle setting many records and that's part of S/SS we love, not everybody can be dead on bracket racers, but that's what makes S/SS so good is that there is 2 different ways to enjoy the sport.





Bret Velde
2003 SS/LA

Re: Gator class teardowns
 

Instead of NHRA identifying the "Cheaters" with a DQ and suspension, maybe the racers should identify the "Cheaters" for all to know who they are. At the next race when you see the "Cheater" you can let him/her know how you feel.