4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Can you install a non locking racing converter in place of a locking converter without issue?

D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

There were 4 different turbine shafts available for the 700-R4 and 4L60e . The 4L60e came with 2 of them , a 298mm style , 30 spline , with a short stub journal with a seal on it , on the engine end of the shaft , and a second style meant for the 300 mm converter , 30 spline , but with a larger o-ring seal after the spline closer to the pump . As long as you inform the converter manufacturer which style shaft you have , there should be no problem using a converter without a converter clutch in it .

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Been a few years since I delt with this, while my race car was still a street car. Seems like it required an input shaft without the passage through it, or the hole in the shaft plugged. Wish I could remember which. The people at TCI or ATI could tell you.

That 3.06 low gear is not likely a big issue for your car. Mine was like a tractor. Standing straight up, or spinning the tires. Front end stayed up through second gear in good air, if it hooked well. Likely not so much of an issue in a 4000 lb car with less hp. Big RPM drop at the shifts won't help anything. T350 trans was faster.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Concerning the 3.06 first gear, Sonnax offers a replacement 2.84 gear set.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

That would be some help.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

My car seems to love the 3.08
For K/SA minimum weight is 4057.
Going to be little more than 4100lbs.
Can definitely see benefit of a 2.84 gears for the Camaro/Firebird

D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

I would certainly consider trying it. Although your car is hefty, a lower numerically gear set would provide closer ratios and less RPM drop on the gear changes, and may pick you up some E.T. The 3.06 may provide a quicker 60', for example, but that certainly doesn't guarantee that you will have a quicker E.T. slip. Just my .02.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

That can be an option down the road.
Does great in 1/8 mile and does not bog in between.
Already in third before the 1/8th mile..

D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

You need to modify the convertor clutch circuit to feed the torque convertor properly by using a kit like this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/trg-4l6-ccv.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

My Trans was built by PerformaBuilt Trans

http://www.performabuilt.com/gm%20pe...d%20truck.html

Just called and talked to Frank at PerformaBuilt...
I can install a Non-Locking converter in place of the Locking Converter with no issues.
Should have spoken to him first.

Now have to decide the correct size and stall.

What is a good stall speed to start with 5000rpm?
John Partridge suggested 5500/5600 with full up Stocker cam.


Dan

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

I would listen to John.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Hi Jim,
You forgot to mention that deal is 700 bucks.
I can't see the wisdom of spending that money just to bring it close to a stock 200 1st gear. It's never going to as fast anyway. That is, unless there was a real good reason to keep the 700 trans. Such is not the case here.

If it were me, and I already had the o/d trans, I'd probably remove as much of the weight as I could, including the 4th stuff. Then I'd build an 8'', which would be basically, a metric 200 ,with a 30 spline turbine hub.
Then I'd probably figure out what gear ratio that would hang it's tongue out in the quarter. Then I'd back off one ratio, and see what happens.

But, I'm not Dan Fahey.

Dan , you don't seem like a real hands on guy, so here's what I'd do.
Sell the 460 E and the Yanker to one of your buds on the SS forum. Then let me set you up with a 200 / 8 ' combo what would be reasonably priced.
Not looking to get into a bidding war here. Either in or out..What say you?

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

^^^^^^^^
The 4L60E is not fast! Too many things wrong there.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Mark appreciate the offer.
Right now I am working a lot of hours.
Plus train daily to Ref Soccer games.
Next two weekends Reffing Elite Soccer Tournaments.

In the mean time collecting parts for Stock.
Before adding power better to build safety and reliability.
First a Roll Bar then a Beefed 8.5 rear with Ford Ends.
Those are my next two investments.

As for hands on...when I got time and can borrow a garage I do the work.
Otherwise have a couple close mechanic friends do the work.

I do appreciate your advise.
Will ping you off line.

D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

The bummer with having a converter built for a 4L60e is it will only fit a 4L60e . So you will own it forever . There is a lot of support for a 200 , and the transmission is dramatically lighter . Even though you have a heavy car , there is some value in being able to place the weight where you want it .

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

That 4L60E belongs in a daily driver, not a race car. Listen to Mark.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Also listen to Russ Abrams. Russ worked in the transmission engineering group at GM for a hundred years and knows their stuff like the back of his hand.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

I side with Mark, make the switch and you will save $$$ Mark has built some odd combos with much success and knows what works and what dose not. Ed is like me, (old) but very smart, listen to them.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Hey Bob..
Nice to hear from you..
Always loved that picture !

Mark et ALL!
Which 200 Trans are you all talking about?
There is a 3sp and OD model.

Other posters recommended a Lightened 2.75 1st gear Turbo350
Never got more than 200 runs out of a Turbo 350 in my 69 Impala.
Had 1978 Oldsmobile and 1980 Pontiac Wagon with a Th200 trans.
Which got rebuilt every 20,000 miles like clockwork.

Few questions?
Will the car need a new X Member, Drive Shaft, if so what length?

My 4L60E has been a very robust unit and ATI has a converter for it.
Know Corbitt Marshburn used one on his Car.
Have well over 500 runs and a lot of street miles.
Prefer reliability over a tenth.
D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Use a 200-C

Current crossmember will work with minimal modifications

Driveshaft will be longer , but you should convert to 1350 u-joints , which will need a new companion flange and front yoke . Output spline is the same on a 200-C as a 4L60e , but you will save yourself some headaches making the switch to a 1350 u-joint .

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

I can tell you what we got from corbitt when we bought the caprice from him.... it wasn’t a 4L60E... it was a 200 and has been since at least 2009. Had it weigh 4100 and it’s fine. The 200 isn’t unreliable... I’m going 12.20s in P... be smart or you will be sorry. Right now you aren’t being smart

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

good advice here

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Mike;
Right now the 4L60E is good enough for K/SA.
Reading a lot of feedback on all the transmission options.
Quite a bit of information and much conflicting.

Happy collecting parts and making upgrades.
For K/SA have to install Roll Bar, and next on the schedule.

Already have the new Cam and small fuel tank.
Will install the Trans, Drive Shaft and Rear together.

All this cost a hell of a lot money.
This is No Dime Rocket.

SS3011...
Thanks, get the 200-C not the OD version.
Going to need a new Trans Cross Member, so have to get that made.

Stock 8.5 Pinion Yoke should be good, unless there are suggestions.
Have to order a Driveshaft to mate with the Trans and use 1350 U-Joints.

The list goes on !

D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Dan you're right about one thing, all this does cost alot of money but doing it twice costs alot more. Do it right the first time with a 200 and you won't regret it. Mike has basically the same car and is running very impressive with his particular combo, I would take any and all of his advise seriously.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Thanks for the advice.
What I cannot do is snap my fingers and all gets done.
What has been learned there is a lot more than the trans.
Need a different Yoke, Universal joints, Driveshaft, bears, axles, housing reinforced with Ford Ends.

To run Stock still needs a Roll Bar and Belts, fuel cell.
I have the cam and heads with new valves and springs.
Should run near the K/SA index using my existing drive train.

Then there are the honey doos
That is the best I can do for now.

D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

A 4L60E will never be competitive in K/SA. Besides the mass of the transmission, and mass of the converter, they simply have to much of an RPM drop between 1st and 2nd. Sure the 2.84 will help, but it's still a band aid.

The same problem occurs when you swap out the rear planet in a TH350 to make it a 2.75 first gear. When you do this, you lower first gear and second gear stays the same. So again, you are increasing the RPM drop between the 1-2 shift.

And then there is the converter issue. You will never get one built that will be competitive. NEVER! I've played with some of the best lockups made in my 200's. And the weight of the converter always negated the lock up advantage.

A TH200 is the only way to go. A 2.91 first gear upgrade would be perfect. Sure, a well built unit with a steel stator tube, billet drums and pistons, updated rear sprag, and roller bearing conversion can be pricey. But you don't need all that to start out.

Even a stock planet 2.75 ratio TH200 would be worth an easy 2 tenths over that 4L60E.

And when you are done, the TH200 will have resale value, the 4L60E will not.

Have you run your car in the 1/4 mile or just 1/8 mile? I can send you a time slip so you'll know where you need to be. While my stuff isn't stupid fast, I can hold my own.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Thanks for the feedback;
Beg to differ...
The Yank Locking Converter works fine.
It is heavy dampening the hit going into second without a hitch.

Best run of 12.68/105, 1/8th-8.02 ET., 60ft 1.61
A few more changes, Roll Bar, Fuel Cell enough to run the K/SA index.
This is good enough for now.

Going to a 200 means a complete expensive Engine and Drive Train upgrade to be competitive.
Winter project if there is time.

D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

I’m no expert but does fuel cell and roll bar set up make the car .03 faster?? What happens when you are in very bad air?? 12.65 index for K....

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Don't worry about it Mike..!
That is my challenge.
Roll Bar and Fuel Cell required for Stock anyway.

You know I am also rebuilding my 1969 Impala for Stock.
Should be moving along this Summer.

D

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Fuel cell is not required in Stock. You probably should invest in a rule book.
Should also consider listening to some of the great advice given by guys that have “been there, done that”!
Save the money you’d spend on the fuel cell and put it towards the 200 trans!

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

I think there is sufficient evidence that NHRA should allow Dan to
run without a roll bar without creating a safety risk.

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

And your only required to have a roll bar in M and higher I believe. All of super stock is required though. Fuel cell is not mandatory by all means. Neither is 2 battery’s

Re: 4L60E Trans and Converters
 

Our Stock Tanks when low on fuel do not feed well on acceleration.
It is fine cruising, racing you need a least a half tank.
It is correct a Fuel cell not required by rules.
Having an 8 gallon fuel tank or cell allows running Pump Gas.
Help keeps cost down running Brackets and Association races.


M Stock and above require a Roll Bar.

D