to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

ALL THE PIECES ARE BACK IN PLACE AND I?M READY TO GO RACING AGAIN.

My question concerns the use of alcohol and vacuum pumps. As of this writing I was not planning on using a vacuum pump since I didn?t have one on they?re before. A little background. My 383 was originally build't to run on gas. But, after running it for 2 years I got tired of trying to figure out my ?dial in? if the weather changed dramatically. So, I decided to switch to alcohol. Which took care of the problem.

But,

The motor did not live long. I heard and got a lot of advice. You need to get a vacuum pump or if not you?ll need to change your oil after ever use .

So my question is, for those that use alcohol or have experienced the wows that I?m going through what do you recommend?

Carlos Mendes
S/street 1739

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

Put one on it, that throwup looking stuff (water and oil mixed) under your valve covers will be gone. I also get the motor hot 200 or so before I shut it down in the trailer and remove the oil filler caps so it can boil and any extra moisture out of it. I would not want any more than 10-12" of vacuum at the finishline or you will have lower end problems. (wrist pins and bearings) Put a gauge on it and make sure you are not going over, allot of engine builders have had comebacks since vacuum pumps because of people trying to run to much vacuum or running the car without a gauge. Hope this helps, Mike

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

mike thanks alot for your responce. i was hoping to get more input to confirm your position since frankly i don't know........ before the motor let go i tried to "heat it up" by making the motor run as lean as i could before she shut down. but, i could never get the motor that hot. in any case i did the best i could and then i fogged the motor with wd-40.

as for the pump. thanks for the info. i plan on putting one on. i already have a gauge which i never used from the old gas days. where did you pump the gauge into?

thanks once again.

carlos mendes
s/st 1739

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

I have always put the fitting for the gauge in the oppisite valve cover the pump inlet is. If you shut the water pump and fan off you should be able to get it to 200 or so.

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

unless you are using a ring combination with very low pressure you will be wasting your money. get away from the alchohol it creates alot of wear in the top of the cylinders. Your motors will last much longer on gasoline. Run the car on the lean side and you will not get as much ET variation. If your car has a hood scoop block it off and pull the air from around the engine this will lessen the change in et due to temp change. in the .90 classes you are not looking for every last HP as we are in Super Stock

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

I ran alcohal carb for 2yrs and injection for 6 yrs and never had a vacum pump,if your milking the oil ,your fat,oil changes every 25 passes,taking the breathers out at the end of night will help with condensation,like the other dude said unless you have low tension rings your pissing in the wind with a vacum pump.

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

Check out the "specials" at: www.Kayeracingproducts.com

They sell an electric vaccume pump kit that pulls 5-7 inches of vaccume.
We ran it on our small-block last year, and we run it on the Big-block this year.
Keeps the milk & moisture to a minimum.

Just what your looking for!

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

I put my pump on 5 years ago and the car picked up 1.5 MPH with the rings I had been running without the pump on gas. I gas ported and used a low tension ring and put the moter on alcohol and it picked up 23 HP more than without the pump and the old ring package on gas. So I don't see where I have waisted my money at all. It also has no water in the valve covers when you pull them off where as before the water in the valvecovers was bad even on gas. (I live in a high humidity area so this does not help) So what I am saying is, I would not run a car on either fuel without one but that is just me.

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

I switched from gas to alcohol injection (Terminator) this year and I love it. One thing nobody's mentioned here is using a primer system. I start mine on gas, warm it to about 160 then switch to alky. No more starting troubles at all. I also switch back and forth to make regulating the engine and oil temperatures easier. If I need a few degrees of heat for whatever the reason, I just shut off the alky and turn on the primer then vice-versa when it gets to where I want it. At the end of the day, turn the primer on again, run it up to about 200 degrees then shut it down and let it cook. The oil looks just fine. (I'll try to remember pulling the breathers next time though...) The other big thing is, $5.50 / gal. for C-14 vs. about $150.00 / drum for alky & $2.50 / gal. for pump gas? Do the math.
-Don

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

a question about that electric vacuume pump. if it pulls 5-7 in of vacuume. why doesn't everybody use it?

the cost seems to be alot less at 500 vice the belt drivien ones which take you around 700-800 soup to nuts. why isn't everybody saleing there belt drivien pump, to get the electric piece. also, where has this tech been all these years. what do the pro stock guys use? in other words whats the bonus with going with the electric.

carlos mendes
s/st 1739

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

I can't answer that Carlos, however for us it works.
There's no mandrel's pully's or pumps up front to worry about!
We just drain the tank & get most of the moisture out!
Got Milk?

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

I haven't had any luck with the GM electric smog pumps. I've used both the old Lt/LS1 (395.00) and the new S10 (550.00). They do draw 5-7" of vacuum at idle, but not down track. They worked well as a evac system..(not for power gain).for a while. Less than a season. I've been running them for 3 years but I am going to a belt driven for reliability.

They do make a bad azz electric pump that uses Dewalt 24 volt battery packs...but they are over a grand.The parasitic loss from a belt drive is very small...if your on alcohol or your running low tension rings, it's hard to beat a good belt system.

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

THANKS JIM, for you views. if i understand you correctly. its read to me as if the pump pulls the vacuum at rest or going to and from the lanes. so the world famous 20 extra HP dosen't apply. but, it will "suck" the moisture out of your oil and could be used as a nice tool prior to putting the car away after a day of racing.

would that be correct?

assumming your answer is yes. then i think i have no choice but to deal with the economics and trouble assoiciated with a belt drivien pump. not so much for the horsepower gains. but to help it live longer. since it seems that my engine builder did put low tension rings in this deal with gas ported pistons.

so thanks to all to gave there input. now all i need to do is go make some money. i guess about 1000 will do it. includes pump, pully, mandral, the the world famous and might i add expensive, braided hose and fittings.

carlos mendes
s/st 1739

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

Carlos look at some of the kits out there. Reher & Morrison has one that has everything you need to do one for around 750.00 or so the last time I looked. You can get away with a three vane to save a little money and Granger sells an adjustable relief valve for around 25.00 or so.

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

Kaye Racing Products sells the Moroso belt drivin pumps as well as the GM style 12-volt pump.
Check out the site, www.Kayeracingproducts.com

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

I have used the factory vacumme pump. I only use it for the moisture removal from the oil.. I did eat a couple of pumps up and then I found an article on what you have to do, to modify on the pump...No problems now.. The best thing about the electric pumps is you can mount it just about anywhere... If anyone wants the info on what to modify on the factory pumps ...send me an email at dak697@shaw.ca I'll send it off to you ...takes about 15 minutes to do it

Dean

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

Carlos,
Yes that has been my experience. It also helps if you have a little blow-by to keep the valve covers clean.

Re: to vacuum pump, or not to vacuum pump, that is the question?
 

At the beginning of the year I switched to Alky with my BBC, and I was scared of all the stories I heard. I got an APD carb (because everyone said they do not milk the oil), and I was told by several big engine companies that i did not need a Vacuum pump. So I went racing with out one. Oil never Milked, I got the temp up to 180* to 200* and shut the engine down, pulled the breathers as well. Never had any Milky contamination in it at all. So from what i was told you do not need one, but I plan on getting one just for the hell of it, I ordered the Aerospace kit from Jegs and it was 735.00 witch I don't see as that bad. A good friend of mine has been running his motor for over 350 passes with nothing done to it at all, not even bearings or plugs. He has no vacuum pump but he does put a 1.5 hp shop vack in one valve cover after he has pulled the breathers and lets it run for about 10 minutes before he loads the car up in the trailer.