U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

I was told I should start documenting the build. Probably a good idea as everyone has seen tons of chev and mopar builds.
So, I have a 83mustang GT that I bought in 84. Street and bracket raced it until 1997. First kid/new house/etc, etc.
Started building it as a 460 bracket car, got 68 429 close chambered heads etc....then talked to guys racing 460 fox bodies and was told a 351w is a better combo. Ok, got a 351W a set of gt40 heads and.....I want a stocker, always wanted a stocker....I have a roller 5.0 and the GT40 heads, I'll build a crate motor! (we can run them here in the maritimes) Then someone mentioned if I'm building a stocker, might as well build a real stocker. But, a 83 mustang SUCKS!! Bad heads/cam/etc. Change it to a 85? No, still bad heads, but roller cam. Nope too much to make it competitive. 302 2bbl has an awesome factor, maybe I'll do that. 302 2bbl stuff is throw away right? Should be cheap build, right?
No.
Bought a 79 mustang for the nose/hood/heads/front bumper. Had to buy a 2bbl intake with the right numbers. I swapped the nose/hood over and come to the conclusion that I should of got a western car and started with that instead of converting a bracket car back to a stocker.
Anyway, waiting for a return call from Deano carbs for the carb, trying to get a cam but logistics is getting foolish. (comp doesn't sell to Canada now) Haven't called about a converter yet but further down the road.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Here is some work I did on it while it was still going to be a bracket car.
https://youtu.be/rNrw9bYTCAM?si=_MguFoAFkXRyQqXq



https://youtu.be/DYVRM8u0fqk?si=zDfAsRQZ5S49F3S6



https://youtu.be/bIZ65Vv9Bag?si=BXiXBlHTIWkXYFF7



https://youtu.be/s2taruXXG9I?si=EdNoU5VoUL2_QZOl

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

As you can see, it ain't pretty! But the video on the 9" got me thinking, is there specific locations to add the ears? As in, factory 8.8 is 4" from center of axle to center of upper control arm bushing. Is this ever checked? Since it never came with a 9", it needs ears welded on, but does NHRA check that it is at factory distance? Obviously moving the ear up or down would change the instant center which is an "advantage". Not too concerned as it's the same as factory but I was just curious since you can't "weld" on suspension stuff.
(or did I miss a perfect opportunity to shut the %$%^ up??) LOL!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

I have some pics but this site only allows 1200x800 which is half a fender with my camera. Not computer savy enough to figure it out right now, lol.

In other news...I bought a milling machine to cut down the rocker arm pedestal boss and to resurface the heads. I figure I have everything to install valve guides, cut 5 angle valve jobs, might as well get a milling machine too! (wife is pissed I'm spending so much just before Christmas but, I "need" it, lol) Deck the block? All kinds of idea's now!

Spending a lot of money to go really, really slow! LOL!!!!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

First reply..Surely not the last LOL

With the style of uppers you have, you just about have to have the right spacing on the housing. You did miss an opportunity to make or buy adjustable heim end uppers.
Yes, you can raise the uppers on the housing. Moser's 12 bolt Chevelle rears are built that way.
I'm thinking you might have joined together two dissimilar metals on the housing though.
Not certified, but I've run a few beads in my life, so far. Might check that.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

The control arms were just to get it on the track, at some point I'll be getting adjustable uppers and perhaps go heim joints as well, good idea.

As far as the dissimilar metals, you are correct and I was thinking about that, but I did it anyway, lol. I do a lot of off roading (that's my youtube channel "low range in nova scotia" and I gob together all kinds of crap and then abuse it until it breaks). Not supposed to weld cast iron (what the rear end ears are made of) so there might be "improvements" in the future, especially if it cracks or breaks.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

You really need an 8.8!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Good morning to all,
Welding cast iron is dicey at best, like hitting a piece of glass with a hammer. I'm thinking you should be able to fabricate what you need out of steel and make it look like the OEM pieces, then weld them to rear axel housing. One thing I've found over the years of trying to fuse cast iron is either the weld doesn't penetrate and breaks off or or the part ( cast iron ) you've welded cracks and breaks. Either of these situations are an accident looking to happen ! We're supposed to be having "fun" not getting ourselves hurt, then also factor in the cost of the Broken Parts Replacement and I think you'll find that building the right parts - the right way will actually be money well spent, the first time.
I'm really enjoying your U/SA 302 FFFFFFord build. Don't take this as a discouragement, this comes from "past experience" and the expense of replacement parts. I understand you'd like to get this project to conclusion but don't rush it. Enjoy your build.

Respectfully,
Henry Kunz 1534 H/SA

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

This. 8.8 is way better for you application

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Gotta agree, not to mention it`s a straight bolt in, and should be pretty easy to find a 8.8 from a 5.0 Mustang, which came with 8.8s starting in 1986, and were the same thru 1993. The only real place a 9" is better for something like this, is a wider assortment of ratios to choose from. With the 8.8, unless things have changed in recent years, there is nothing between 4.88 and 5.14, and then nothing again until 5.71. On my 85 Mustang M/S, I ran both the 4.88s and 5.14s, with 29 and 29 1/2" tall tires, with the 2 barrel deal, 28s or 26" tall tires would be an easy way to dial in the ratio/tire diameter combination. As for strength, you will never hurt the 8.8, my M/S 85 Mustang was a stick car, leaving at 6000-6200 RPM, with cheap Moser 31 spline axles, and even with my 331 bracket engine (10.2@ 129 MPH, with mid 1.3 60 foots, dropping the clutch at 62-6600 RPM), I never hurt the rearend. That said, we did weld the axle tubes to the cast center, and made braces to go from the casting to the ends of the axle tubes. Heck, even the stock 7.5 rearend that should be in the car already, would likely hold up with the 2 barrel automatic combo, not sure what the ratio selection for those is, however. For a set of cheap, easy to buy, "off the shelf" headers, I had Hedman long tubes on my street Fairmont years ago, with 1 1/2" primaries, which would be a great place to start for something like that. The 85 4 barrel combo is a pretty decent one, but stick only, is that bothers you, but with the current HP ratings, the 2 barrel is a GREAT combo, as would be the 82 "5.0 HO" 2 barrel deal, which has a larger cam and carb, but again, is a stick only deal. The heads on all the 78 thru 85 Ford 302/5.0 engines are the same 2 barrel, or 4 barrel, although the 85s do have a different casting number, but are identical, other than being relieved at the lower flange, to allow the longer roller lifters used in 85, to be removed and installed with the heads in place.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Rory, I was hoping that you would respond.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

The 8.8's are still around, but they've gone up considerably since the one I bought in 2007. Probably local would be best, if you live in a populated area. I wouldn't want to pay shipping on one.
Supposedly ,Yukon gear made a 5.14 for the 7.5, never actually saw one that's available. I agree that it would probably hold up behind a 302, 2 bbl , 3" stroke, 3000# combo.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Of all the stuff left to do, I was thinking since the 9" is in it, and already has 4:86's..... But I get it, experience is better than theory. By spring, if it's as far as I want it to be I might start looking for a 8.8 (cousin gave me a 3.27 traction loc 7.5, it's the one I cut the ears off and used the Trac loc in my blue 86 mustang. (3.8/auto, not in the guide, I looked, wish it was, lol) so I can probably find one, but then I need axles/spool/etc for a 8.8 when I have a perfectly serviceable 9" in it already. Maybe I'll find a built 8.8 and just bolt it in.

Thanks guys, the more I get done, the more I find I have to change/replace, LOL! I just finished redoing the dual batteries in the trunk (it was going back as a bracket car originally) and remember I need a battery in the stock location too....and a battery box! So now I'll tear out the dual batt set up (I'm paranoid about hitting the key in the lanes and getting a click) and put one (original size) in the front and then rewire my master switch to turn them both off as well as the engine. One step ahead, 4 back, lol.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

I have already been pestering him at the track this summer. (and every other S/SS guy the maritimes) I have to remember that I have two ears and one mouth though. (story of my life, HA!!)

Edit: and I have to read the 2023 rule book, it appears my 1997 rule book is no longer accurate.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

No, you don't. Stock axles and posi are more than strong enough for a 302/auto combo. Stop looking to spend time and money that doesn't need to be spent on a 12/13 second car!

P.S., It'll slow you down.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Thanks Billy, I'm still in a bracket mindset instead of a stocker mindset. You're right, a lot less rolling resistance with the 8.8. Doesn't matter with a bracket car but it does with a stocker and I'm not running a 460.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

I'm in AZ and on Facebook was expedition 8.8 for 150.00. Disc brakes. Gears? Not sure on width

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Just a note on 8.8 vs 9 inch. If the car has a 9 inch in it leave it. We did a back to back test 9 inch to 8.8 in a U/SA. Everything the same. There was ZERO difference. Parts for the 9 inch are cheaper and easier to find used.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

That's good to know, I think the concern is more the fact I welded cast ears onto the steel housing. It's lower on the priority list but I'll either redo the upper mounts in mild steel or find a 8.8 to bolt in.

Zero change from back to back testing is more believable than what car craft or hot rod said in the 70's too, lol.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Well, I picked up a engine that was supposedly just built, ran it for a couple hours and it started knocking. I got it because it has the D8OE heads I need. As I'm tearing it apart I'm noticing an "assembler" problem. Somebody spent a lot of money to slap it together without checking anything.

Piston/wall clearance was .001 at most. (two pistons are scored quite bad)
Cam endplay was .120!!
Cam lobes all starting to wipe but engine started knocking before it ate the cam completely.

Now, the good news. I noticed the rod caps are all ground from a balance job(except one of course) and I see ARP rod bolts as well. I see slugs of mallory welded in....ummm...there's an eagle stamped into the first counterweight!!
The head bolts are ARP as well.
I checked the pistons, Hypereutectic CP, 30 over.
Looking closer at the rods, they are D1VE which are 1971 rods....interesting.

The Cyl's were just bored and are perfectly straight and round. I decided to hone it out to .003 (calls for .015-.029) to get rid of the scratches and it worked on 6, the two bad ones are still noticeable.
Cam endplay was .120 instead of .001-.003 I looked at the frost plug behind the cam and they used a tiny socket to beat it in causing it to push the center in but it was never seated. Seated that with a proper sized driver and it went to zero. A little manipulating and I got .002 endplay.

I did some block work opening up oil returns and was going to relieve all the holes but wife got home, lol!

Since i got it so cheap, I'm going to fix the assembly errors and put it back together. The cam bearings look pretty rough which could cause low oil pressure but other than that, bottom end should be ok. Put the stocker heads and cam in it and see if it will last until my good engine is built?? I just have to check these pistons.

Forgot to mention, I have a Deano carb and a stocker cam on their way!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

What I found so far...

https://youtu.be/dRF4WM8UDN8?si=TeStJfad5xlDmOcJ

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Knowing that "it's not right" I decided I can't leave that cam plug in there, lol. Went today and bought a new plug, pounded out the old and with loctite, pounded the new one in with a proper sized driver.
Now I have .0028 end play, calls for .001-.003 so it's good!

Little by little...

(add another $5 to the growing bill, lol)

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

EXCEPT.....the cam end play is NOT controlled by the rear cam plug. The cam thrust plate on the front of the block with the (timing chain) cam gear bolted up is what controls cam end play.

Victor in Kingman/Mesa

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Wow.....I am definately losing my mind....once I read that I was like yeah, I kno....wait..what? What the heck kind of rabbit hole was I going down? That's like forgetting to torque a head in sequence..what did I just do?

Well, if you want to know if you're humble or not, make a simple build mistake where everyone can see. LOL!

Thank you for pointing it out, I'll go to bed tonight a little less stupid! LOL!
(heading out now to stick on a new timing gear and check clearances)

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Many, many times have I realized that experience came from sometimes doing it right , sometimes doing it wrong and trying to figure out which is which. Oh, the goofs I've made!

Victor in Kingman/Mesa

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Built a garage once, 26x32. Had the pad poured then used it to build the wall laying down. Once the wall wall completed, stood it up and braced it. 1 wall a day. Cousin came over the following week and laughed at me. Built the walls laying down right?
Umm, yeah, why?
Look at your windows.. I built the wall so the bottoms of all the windows were the same but the tops were all different!🫣🫣 looked fine laying down!😂😂
He said make sure the TOPS of the windows are even for looks.. yeah, knew what I was doing, just lost focus😂😂

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Got a Christmas present just before Christmas!! Stocker carb and cam just showed up from the US!
I guess I should wrap it...LOL!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

If you need any advise, contact Mike Graham. He builds the fastest U/SA Fords out there. Many time record holder.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Definitely a cool thread you got here. I have an 83 mustang GT, but unfortunately with the 83 being stick only, it was not of financial good reason to pursue that as my first stocker build. I remember finding some interesting things when I took apart the original engine a few years ago. I believe the connecting rods had a part number from the early 70s. More interestingly imho was the part number date range on the rod bearings. Some as old as C5 to D8, maybe even E0. I wonder if the factory mismatched bearings to get clearances within tolerance. Good luck with your build!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Funny thing is, I joined the army and decided I was done with rusted out cars. I sold my 72 Gran Torino Sport, factory buckets and console that I pulled the 351c and dropped in a 69 428CJ and c6. Decided I needed a new car and I went to the dealer to buy a new 85 (fall of 84) 5.0lx and was told you can't get it. More to it, but I drove away in a 83gt/5.0/5spd. Had around 50,000km's on it when I ripped it apart and went through the ford catalog and spent $15,000. I even had A&J balance the bottom end but didn't realize I should of just asked for a 400hp 302 and probably spent 1/2...Young and stupid, now I'm older...and stupid, lol!

Yeah, I ran the original 5spd and blew up two 7.5's then dropped in the 9". Ran that way for 4 years then drove it in Germany for 3 years, returned to Canada and raced it for 2 years, swapped to auto. That same transmission was in a mud truck and has for the last 8 years or so been in a 75 maverick street car. Since they're known for being "glass", I must of got a good one or didn't abuse it.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Since there's never a better time to be humbled....lol...here's me checking and then swapping parts to see where all the wear is.

And yes, after I got numerous messages including from guys who build race engines for a living (and who scratched there head at me, lol) I did a follow up video, and checked it correctly.

https://youtu.be/cNvXqraxq5g

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

After doing a power steering pump on the wife's off road truck, I played with my new toy (milling machine) for a bit and then got a bit of motivation to work on the mustang by firing it up and testing the line lock, LOL. Now, the garage stinking like exh and burnt rubber, I rolled under it to finish assembling and aligning the nose/fenders. Less than 5 minutes in the wife shows up and says it's really snowing, are you going to plow? Crap...

Ever think things are conspiring against you? LOL!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

One step ahead, numerous back.....

I was building my bracket car to get it back on the track after 25+ years and did most of the work, then decided to build it into a stocker.

So, fuel system is complete and working now, but now for a stocker I have to pull the gas tank and install a fuel cell so it will be easier to swap from high test to race fuel when required. Also have to install a bleeder port for the fuel testing. Also, at one time I ran 2 4bbls and although one port is blocked off, I will have to move the fuel lines on the fender well.

Dual batteries and master switch all done, ready to go...but a stocker needs a battery in the front so I'll need to find a battery tray and configure the master to work with a batt in front and a batt in the rear (or just say heck with it and run one batt??)

With the rule on flex plates, I'll have to get one and install it. (didn't need as a bracket car)

On and on it goes and with all the snow and me being plow operator/tech, been hard to get back on the mustang when I'm working on snow equipment as well as the wife's off road truck.

And the whole "posting on the internet instead of being in the garage working because it's so cold out" is having a negative effect as well! LOL!!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Unless you need the weight. One is quick and easy.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Broke... I heard you NS guys got almost 5' of snow in a day and a half. Your going to need a snowblower with Cobra-Jet Power to move that mess. MB

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

And to make it worse, my hottub pump seized up as the storm hit so I was draining water and pulling the pump in the storm, lol. Just got it back together last night. It's back up to 80 so far.

"fun times in the maritimes" lol!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Yeah it's just my paranoia from years gone by. Hit the key for the next round and click. Or sitting in lanes during a shut down and forget to turn stuff off, etc.

Sure sounds like I could fix the issue by paying attention, LOL!

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Going over the rule book again, double checking… interior, unless you’re running a roll bar, must have front and rear seats… crap. So now I need a passenger AND a rear seat. And since I’m pulling the batts out of the rear, I don’t need my aluminum rear firewall.

How can I be falling farther behind, the more I do?? Lol!

Going to look at a scrapped mustang tomorrow for the batt tray and possibly seats.

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Just ordered a new factory tray, scrap yards have nothing around here.

1979-86 MUSTANG BATTERY TRAY KIT by Daniel Carpenter Reproductions

Item #LRS-10732BK

This battery tray kit includes everything you need to safely secure your 1979-1986 Mustang battery.
Daniel Carpenter Reproductions

Going with single batt up front and pulling the two bus batteries from the rear. Found rear seat in red so I'll use that, just need a red front passenger seat now. (among a thousand other things, lol)

(again, spending a lot to go really slow, LOL!!)

Re: U/SA 302 ffffford build
 

Another piece of the puzzle, new batt box.