Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Lets get an honest poll going here. To satisfy my curiosity, I'd like to see how folks really feel.

Whether you like it or not, do you believe adding a new manufacturer to the guide is a good thing? Do you agree with the way Gump's car was prepared?

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Wow, just like I'd guessed. 50% good, 50% bad/don't care so far.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Dawson, I've enjoyed watching the results of your poll so far. It's interesting,
a lot of us think of ourselves as Stock Purists, which really means old,
and some are up in arms about the trans and rear end in this project.
Yet, I can build a 1956 Chevrolet for Stock Eliminator, and put in a 12 Bolt
Rear, and a metric 200 3 speed trans, neither were available to that car.
If we want Stock to live, and we do, then newer style cars will have to
continue to be introduced to the eliminator. To make most of them
raceable, we can't have tiny, complicated 10 speed automatics, rear ends
that won't survive a burnout, etc. Perhaps the "New" Purists will have to learn that the body and motor have to be pure, but any automotive rear
end, and transmission with 3 forward gears are the future.

J.R.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

your poll says net good, net bad instead of not good, not bad

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

also JR, your car is a gm car, you can run a gm 12-bolt and a gm metric 200, but you can't run a dana rear or ford rear end in stock. what gm trans did toyota use.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

I’m certain it’s a play on words. I do it a lot. It’s like gonna or gunna instead of going to….

Competition begets competition, it’s all relative to what we do. I’m guessing it’s the homologation of parts making a Toyota legal in Stock Eliminator that some folks don’t like. There must be something legal for it to happen, which apparently it’s just that…going to happen. I doubt GUMP would invest in it, if he didn’t feel it was possible. Sub 9 sec runs have become a norm, it’ll just be weird seeing a Toyota Supra at or near the top of the sheet.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

But that Camaro Stocker that he drives has a 9"....

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

The Supra was built as a joint venture with BMW. Hence the B58 engine. BMW has a history of running GM transmissions.....

In my opinion, everyone should be able to replace their 40 year old case with an SFI three speed. But that is a thought for another day....

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

I think the COPO Camaro came from the factory with the 9 inch. Not Ford but Strange. That is the difference. The street version cannot run the 9 inch.
I would say that Supra would be more of a comp car.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

True.


It ABSOLUTELY can!!


LOL! It also has a Strange rear. And, it has been built using the existing rules to run Stock Eliminator.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

It's not a typo, I don't think you understand the phrase.

"Net" is another word for sum. In this instance, a Net Positive or Net good means that the sum of all of the parts or implications of this subject matter adds up to be a good thing. Maybe you don't like that it has a Ford rear-end, but that is outweighed by adding a new manufacturer to the guide and the potentiality of including new, younger racers to STK.

So:
net good=you are for it
net bad=you are against it

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

What do I do if I "LOSE" the poll?

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Press on, I guess...

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Win class at Indy and make for damn sure it passes teardown. LOL




Bret Velde
2003 I/SA
Coming soon

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

So...
My beef isn't adding cars to the class...
I actually think it is a good thing...
But...
There are a lot of show room cars/combos not in the guide...

My personal opinion, and that's all it is, an opinion, not advocating any changes other than to approach things evenly and fairly...
I've always thought the COPOs, Drag Packs, etc. all with the blown, turbo charged, non corporate rear end, transmission, should have been placed in Super Stock...
I equate these with the Factory Stock stuff from back in the day I guess...

It wouldn't have been hard to put 12 bolt in the COPO, 9" in FOMOCO, Dana in Chrysler, etc. from the beginning...

Alas...
That ship sailed a long time ago...

It amazes me that the manufacturers and NHRA went through the trouble of building and getting these cars in the guide while ignoring the actual show room cars...
And yet GUMP has had to do all the leg work to get this car accepted...
Was there a concerted effort by the manufacturers to get these other paper cars done?
Or was there a group of racers that got together and did the leg work to get these cars built?

The 2008 and up rear rule was already there, and GUMP was able to justify the transmission, (circuitous as the logic may be)...
Didn't Ford and GM build an 8 or 10 speed trans for the Camaro and Mustang? (Did that project make it to production?)
How far a stretch is, any trans in any car?
So I don't see what all the heartburn is about...

As I said MY opinion is I think it is a better fit in Super Stock, just due to some of the rules I don't agree with, but there are other cars out there that are built using the same rules running in Stock...

GUMP spent a lot of time and resources to get this done...
It's a good looking car...
I applaud him for his efforts...
Wish him luck and hope to see it in person at the races.

As for me, I'm building an OLD car and will use whatever enhancements currently allowed, and any that pop up in the future...

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

My understanding is that the FS cars came about when some "car guys" at the Big Three got together to do something cool. I'm amazed that they were able to convince the management to sign off on the programs.

A neat piece of trivia is that MPR did the concept car for all three. Mike is a friend of mine, so I made sure that he has a little DNA in the Supra too.

As far as the production cars go, there aren't many people left at the OEMs that understand what we do. The only way that I have found to get new combinations in the guide is to be polite and patient. The guys that have helped me didn't have to. They are just good people.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Darren...remember our chat with Robin in Facebook? :D :D :D

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

first Dawson ,were you doing a poll or a english lesson? Also, the rule on rear ends 2008 an later can use a 9" ford style rearend but does state no aluminum center unless from factory installed. and because bmw had a gm trans.does not apply to a supra, that is a strectch. It is a toyota not a bmw even with bmw engine.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

So the current hang up appears to be the transmission. Lets examine that.
There seems to be a want for the stock type of transmission case. So we
need a genuine Toyota Trans case. It can be done, no problem. We will
examine all the cases Toyota has produced for the last 20 years or so,
and settle on a few that appear to have approximately the same capacity
dimensions as a Metric 200, or a Turbo 350. The trans can then be sent
to any number of places, Pro Trans, Joel's, Coan, ATI, A-1, to have all of
todays aluminum drums, lightened gears, hardened shafts, etc. fitted to
the Toyota case. End result, a few thousand diehard, possibly anal, Stock
Racers( I include myself in that group) get to say, We showed him, he has
to run that Toyota trans. All we have done is put up one more barrier for
someone with the insight, foresight and intestinal fortitude to create this excellent idea, and instead of a transmission costing 10,000.00, it will be 20,000.00, but we will feel better. We are running our manufacturers cases, but we've got Chrysler, Ford, and Subaru derivative parts in them. But its in a stock appearing case. Who really cares? The stick cars run trans from 6 or 7 manufacturers, they don't resemble Muncies, Borg-Warners, Top-Loaders, or Chrysler crash boxes. The stick guys don't care, why do we?

J.R.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

I'm a long time Toyota guy so the reason I laugh at it is because it is not a Toyota. I think it would have been cool to get a v-8 Toyota or Lexus, and there are a lot of them, in the guide. A lot of people can relate to them and there's a lot of them out there more affordable than a supra.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Maybe I missed this in an earlier post, what class will this car fall into? FS/A, A/SA, etc...

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

It will be in the normal production classes.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Scorched Earth at Indy then. If they don't like it, they can lump it.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

This may come as a surprise, but my mother was an English teacher for many years and now a librarian. I get it honest.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

If people got as snarky about spelling and grammar in person as they do on their keyboards, most of us would be in jail or ready med lol.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Which model Supra ?
The Turbo 4 cyl. version or 6 cyl. version ?

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

We are working only on the six-cylinder at the moment (B58).

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

NHRA has been allowing a live axle swap for years in IRS cars..nothing new here. Personally I don't care if it's a 12bolt 9" ford or Chrysler 8 3/4. Maybe NHRA is considering clean up and down time at national events if they mandate a smaller unit.
I think if I was Darren I would be asking for a 12bolt considering parasitic losses with a Ford 9"

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Just curious how many "younger racers" have the financial resources to be racing a a new Supra, Cobra Jet Mustang, COPO Camaro, or Drag Pak Challenger? The vast majority of late model factory race cars that I have seen, are owned by people that have gray (if any!) hair,

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Hopefully by Indy , this combination is actually in the Guide, so that Tech have some casting numbers and specifications to compare against in the barn.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Since this Toyota/BMW/Ford/GM hybrid is supposed to be a Stock Eliminator car, I will not concern myself with the manual transmissions that Super Stock cars are allowed to run, but I can say that my Jericos very closely resembled a production Ford Toploader 4 speed, and my current G Force G101A 4 speed closely resembles a Borg Warner 4 speed, in both appearance, design, and function. The main benefit is the Jerico and G Force transmissions are stronger than the production transmissions, and like the automatics, are available with ratios more suitable for drag racing. Not to mention the last year that Ford installed a Toploader 4 speed in a production car was 1973, not 100 % positive, but I doubt that GM installed Muncies much later than that, same with MoPars A833, or the BW T10, which was only installed in some AMC cars, after Ford, GM, and Chrysler deemed the T10 too weak for their performance applications, so they all chose to invest in building their own 4 speed manual transmissions in the mid 60s.

Toyota Supra Class Prediction
 

With the cars standard production weight of approximately 3400 lbs and a predicted hp rating at 325, I predict it will be a D, E and F class car. Now, if the car comes in at a lighter weight, which it should with the ability to remove all the emission equipment, wiring, etc., it could land as C, D or E. Turbo engines can make more power than you would expect, fun to see where it lands. Bets anyone!

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

idk but not me lol. I'm 25 and it's all I can do to maintain a mediocre bracket car and an even more mediocre stocker.

Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction
 

I agree it will land in C/D/Eish and it will be fast. It won't be lightening fast to begin with as GUMP really has built a bone stock engine to start out with, but he doesn't build slow stuff either. I reckon it'll be capable of 1.00 under out the gates with way more potential down the road. Just my guess tho

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

Good luck at Indy with it . The GTO and the 340 cars in D & E/SA might be in for a surprise.

Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction
 

Why start with an arbitrary HP rating of 325. Why don’t we start out with the factory HP rating and let the AHFS work as designed?

Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction
 

I believe they gave all the newer cars about 15% off the advertized. Don't quote me on that. Same thing with the shipping weight. Not 15% but they will trim some off the 3411 lbs i would fair guess . I only know the Mopar side of it. They have they new challenger at 3600 lbs curb weight. That is about 300 lbs less than reality. See you at the races Sante.

Paul H

Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction
 

That's a fair question. It's mostly because the NHRA published horespower rating no longer has anything to do with actual HP. Somewhere in time, it became a factor in the math to regulate the classes.

Due to standards that didn't exist in "The Way Back" the HP numbers that the manufacturers publish are much more honest than in the past. That would make them less than competetive in the world of NHRA Stock/SS racing.

Re: Toyota Supra Class Prediction
 

Daren, thank you for the response to my question. I think what you are doing in terms of adding an exciting new car/combination to Stock Eliminator is a good thing and your hard work should be commended. However, one does not have to look back too far to see the results of what I believe is over generous NHRA HP ratings related to new cars/combinations.
For example, 2010 INDY; 11 of the top 16 qualifiers were 2008-2010 entries.
2011 INDY; all top 16 qualifiers were 2008-2011 entries.

In my opinion, new cars/combinations in Stock Eliminator should be competitive, but they should not be dominating classes full of previous top qualifiers that have been flogging out there combinations for the past 20+ years.

Re: Toyota Supra in Stock Eliminator (Poll)
 

When classified by hp vs weight, body aerodynamics can be an advantage, old vs new.