worst red light debate, again!
 

Do fast car have an advantage? Probably, you have your competitor in sight at all times: the slower car has the disavantage of leaving first, if he red lights he's done regardless if the faster car red lights worse than him. I think that's an unfair disaventage for a slower car. What should be done is to change the right light rule to mirror the first or worse rule this sport was built on. Let's make the worse light offender, the loser. The faster car wouldn't see the red light until he's made his start and then if a red light had come on in the other lane the worst would be shown. Let's make it fair on everybody, brackets to class. I know that this has been debated until everyone is tired of hearing this being recycle every month, but the ever high cost of racing is being push up because everybody wants the faster car causing so people to be pushed out of racing. This is just my opinion and I know what they say about opinions. Claude Ruel

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

where's the ignore button.....





_______________________________________

Andy Stone 1102 A/S 1112 SS/C

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I'll bet you are one of those slower cars that gets chased all the time.........................Where is Art, he would be all over this topic.....................AGAIN!!!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Makes no difference. Not going to change. Don't like it? Build a faster car or quit. Whining on a message board won't do a thing.
This is lame.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Claude,please put a fork in it before Dedman wakes up again, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Where's the "Like" button!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

"Cut me Mick" -Rocky Balboa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpYosdIQ9JA

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

whaaa!! Whaaa! Whaaa!
I just lost to a double red light AGAIN!
DADDY! HELP ME DADDY!! I FELL OUT OF MY CRIB!!! :p

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Where's the "Beating a dead horse" smiley at?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I just want someone to explain it to me properly why it's ok to give your opponent such an advantage. I've always wanted to know, just because we've always done it before doesn't make it right. I'm not crying Lee, I love the chase either way, just please explain it properly for this slow minded pain in the butt feeble racer. Thanks Claude Ruel

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Does not matter. It's not going to change. Get over it or go do something else. Debating it won't change a thing. Go debate with the people that make the rules: NHRA. The people here have nothing to say about it. Makes no difference what anybody here thinks. Just does not matter what is said here. Get it?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Claude,what class and car do you race in stock or superstock?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I agree it does not matter But I will say this. It is a advantage if the slow car goes red but if he goes green and the faster car has to sit there for a long time before the tree comes down whos advantage is it then? Ever sat at the tree for over 10 seconds waiting for your turn? Its not easy either. I dont race S/SS but this rule will effect everybody.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Thanks Rob, I guess with old age you forget things, that a great light from the slower car might cause as much stress to the faster car which in turn will equalize. Mr Kvass I ran a g/sa in the 80's to 90's and was building a m/sa but will probably stay in brackets for now. Ok, guys let's put a fork in it, you're right and I've got my answer. Thanks. cR

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Claude,I don't spell my last name like that.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Shawn , Claude's a good guy. I'm sure that's a typo. He'll edit it if he sees this.

I heard that Isaac Zane had to change his name to "Issac" , thanks to this forum. LOL

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Sorry Shawn, hope you won't mind me using your first name just an mistake. Thanks to everyone.Claude

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

The naysayers are right, just as you said; it will never change, not because it's not a better way to race, nor because changing the rules is not a legitimate way to make a more fair and equitable setup under which to run a race, but ~because~ it won't make NHRA a red cent, and might cost something to implement (for software/programs.).

The "professionals" who are in a position to bring to fruition an improvement such as this, have NO INTEREST in fairness, ethics, or any other high-minded changes to idiotic rule situations such as this, UNLESS they can figure out a way to make some more cash out of it (and obviously, they can't.)

If the powers that be (now,) had been running things back when the Christmas tree was first implemented, when the rule was "the first car to break out loses," it would still be that way... believe it!

There was no software extant (look it up, ED) at that time to facilitate a worse red light rule, so they did what they could at the time (which was NOTHING) and it, over time, became the "industry standard" and people (like me, for instance) just accepted the fact that it couldn't be fixed at that time, and got used to it. For 47 years.

Now, people who have grown up with it, say, "If it aint broke, don't FIX it."

Well, it IS broke; they just can't see it.... and NHRA could NOT care less.


Now that it CAN be fixed, I think it's the most exquisite irony that it'll never happen.
So, yeah, it's here to stay....

Just my opinion, but that's what this board is for...

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

It is undoubtedly "LAME" when suggesting a fix for an inequitable rule that's been with us for 47 years, is attacked as "whining."

Were they whining when they approached NHRA to weigh the drivers with the cars, to stop the inequity of an advantage the lightweight drivers had over the big guys?

I don't think so...

Were they whining when the "first car to break out" rule was in effect, and needed to be a "worst breakout rule?"

I don't think so...

This "first redlight" rule is at least as bad as either of those, but pointing it out and suggesting that it be changed so that EVERYONE has the same chance to red light, is "whining."

Sounds like semantics (look it up, ED) at its worst...

But the absolute worst part of all of that "you're whining" rhetoric, is that NOBODY who writes on that side of the ledger, ever has posted ONE reason not to change it; instead, they choose to KILL THE MESSENGER with character assassinations and claims of "whining."

It's so transparent...

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Forget the worst red light, let's allow deep staging. What a FARCE to make THAT illegal. Guess they just didn't want slow cars to have a shot. It would be tough enough to deep stage being the slow car with courtesy staging and autostart, isn't that enough of a disadvantage to allow it?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I run a slow classed Stocker and shallow stage as much as the rest do,and leave on the bottom light. I`ve never had a problem hitting the tree good consistantly,and I`ve never needed to deep stage it. That`s a moot point too.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I stage dead shallow and leave on the bottom bulb too. I also like looking at a clean tree. To me, that is my advantage to leaving first and taking the chance of being the first to go red.
Now why can't we talk about something like the shameful purses we have to run for. If we're going to discuss something that doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell of happening anyway why couldn't it be the purse?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Thanks a lot Claude.You had to crank him up again.Quack,quack,quack,quack,quack,quack.
I also stage shallow and have no problem hitting the tree.That's with 60's in the 1.74-1.80 range.
Oh and what Billy said.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Bill, approaching NHRA as I mentioned and whining on an Internet message board are two different things. Going on & on about it here does nothing. More people wanted cars weighed with the drivers than want this changed. Remember the poll done here? Most racers do not want or care about this. Get over it. Not going to happen. I would like to take long showers with Pamela Anderson too. That ain't gonna happen either.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I would like to take long showers with Pamela Anderson too. That ain't gonna happen either.


Ed,you little devil you.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

"run"!?!?
did you change your mind about running a stocker?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Anecdotal evidence, Billy Boy!
Yes, and Toby won his very next race after deep staging was banned.
Does that mean that the option should be totally removed for everyone? I think not.

Every one of these bogus rulings, tech over reaches, going against the printed rule book, phony factory combos and horsepower ratings, ...you end up making the whole deal more expensive. Then you lose a few more good racers.
Whadda ya got now?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Very possibly. Already changed the rear end gears,looking at a cam in the very near future. Always have the IHRA Salt Lake option this June too! After repainting it,it still looks like it belongs in Stock.....for now.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I'm not sure what this would have to do with anything. Even a spectator would find a faster car in a handicap race, getting a free ride, to be odd and undeserving.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

It probably won't occur because she has no desire to engage in sapphic activity with the likes of you.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

That comment was made by Ed Wright.My,my but you are a stupid littke boy.Can't even follow the progress of a thread.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Regardless of which Ed he was referring to, I have but one more word....OUCH!!!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Lane I hope you do make it out there, but Bandimere's LODRS race is the same wknd., so I may not? I'm looking forward to it though, so if you did show up that would be cool...maybe Randy could make it too???

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Billy, I'm with you and Lane on shallow staging, and the bottom bulb thing, but as for the purses? I think of why my luster for racing for class Wally's is gone...the class contingencies are down to $100 bucks (if not $50) for my car, so it would hardly be worth it for me to get into that "enhanced" class racing format that Glendora blessed us with this year....thus the only good that comes from that is racing in near regular elimination conditions.

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Gary,the fact that the points race is in Denver has nothing to do with what I choose to do. If I can run the "N" index,I`ll stay here,if not,then maybe some travel plans are in order for an "I" race. If I still can`t run the "N" index and gas prices are around $5 a gallon,I`ll stay home and run the Jackpot race on Saturday night of the LODRS at Bandimere. Regardless,work needs to stay strong to be able to do anything!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

Claude, I (just like Bill D.) agree with you on all of the above, but Ed W. is probably right in that nothing will change (especially if it doesn't pad the pockets of the Glendora group). My way of dealing with the (now) even higher cost of NHRA racing is to embrace the IHRA's growing presence out west. When I get some more seat time under my belt, then I will embrace the NHRA again, because Jody & Toby (amongst numerous others), have shown that the slower car can & does win against the faster cars, and if I did my job on the starting line just .003 better 3wknds ago, I'd have been in my first Stock Eliminator semi-final rnd. of competition. That's fixable, the worst redlight issue probably won't be (whether it should be or not). By the way, The Hawk & Billy Nees, and Mark Y. (Even Ed F. at last years Indy nats), got there selves known to the racing masses driving slower rollers too, so it can be done...even without that change, and just like they've made it happen, I'm going to as well, so you faster class racers best be on your "A" game when you race me, because I'll have my day too...heck check out McNeal Freeman! My Georgia bud is in the Top Ten in the nations point standings, and he finished 2010 8th in D2. Driving a V/SA car! KEEP IT GOING MAC!!!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

I hear you Hawk, and trust me I enjoyed being able to enjoy the I's version of my index over the N's version. I hope your work does stay strong (if not get stronger), and your car will run quick enough for you so you can do either the Denver or Salt Lake City race. Hopefully the fuel prices will not go there either, because we all who enjoy this sport should be able to enjoy our passions, and although I'd rather be able to afford to race like I could back in '08, or even in '99, I'll (like you) take what I can get here around me, until things improve more. Hang in there Hawk, you'll be soaring once again, and I'll enjoy reading about how you did it too!

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

so what, no pics?

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

You are right Gary, Mac is a great guy! We taught him how to eat pizza at Leonardo's in Gainesville this year! Jim:D

Re: worst red light debate, again!
 

WhenI get some pics,I`ll post `em. It`s definately a different look,pearl white and candy purple! I like it!