This will make AHFS work

Dick Butler · 04-09-2008, 02:04 PM

The goal as I understand it is to factor motors down to a more even playing field, Regardless what has made the combination that way.
People race for pride and MONEY.
People need smaller goals than Eliminator so more people share success in their racing.
1)Do what it takes to pay BIG money with sponsors and /or cash for class. If this means reduce Eliminator money so be it. Give a Trophy and ?$.
2) That means fewer classes to pay. Make it so Class is a challenge to win to earn the money and that brings pride too.
3)Decrease classes in SS and S to 32 each. This helps increase the money available per class to help with #1 and #2
4)Correct class runs et to sea level. Use this for factoring if needed. If ET warrants factor -tear down at that event to prove legal for class win and factor.
5)New motors only by application to NHRA and factored on closest previous family motor. Old Motors not previously in competition start by applying.
6)Move Indexes down .5 and make trigger -.65 using this number. Runs on class finals subject to review for sand bagging.
7)64 car fields-32 class winners under index and 32 quick qualifiers....left.

These things could reward MORE people for hard work, PAY more to win class. Identify bogus motor HP.
faster and if weather is used it will protect the racers from killer conditions at one race when they only race in average weather.

SSDiv6 · 04-09-2008, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

The goal as I understand it is to factor motors down to a more even playing field, Regardless what has made the combination that way.
People race for pride and MONEY.
People need smaller goals than Eliminator so more people share success in their racing.
1)Do what it takes to pay BIG money with sponsors and /or cash for class. If this means reduce Eliminator money so be it. Give a Trophy and ?$.
2) That means fewer classes to pay. Make it so Class is a challenge to win to earn the money and that brings pride too.
3)Decrease classes in SS and S to 32 each. This helps increase the money available per class to help with #1 and #2
4)Correct class runs et to sea level. Use this for factoring if needed. If ET warrants factor -tear down at that event to prove legal for class win and factor.
5)New motors only by application to NHRA and factored on closest previous family motor. Old Motors not previously in competition start by applying.
6)Move Indexes down .5 and make trigger -.65 using this number. Runs on class finals subject to review for sand bagging.
7)64 car fields-32 class winners under index and 32 quick qualifiers....left.

These things could reward MORE people for hard work, PAY more to win class. Identify bogus motor HP.
faster and if weather is used it will protect the racers from killer conditions at one race when they only race in average weather.

Rebuttal:

1. Sponsors want the big names, not the local guy with a 30 year old plus car. When was the last time you saw an advertisement from Fram on TV with a Stock Eliminator racer?

2. Fewer classes will discriminate against other makes and models, Would you like to see a field with 60% Camaros?

3. Decrease classes and fields: This is what you have been proposing for the last 3 years and nobody wants it.

4. Correct class runs: Racer's beg for NHRA to change the way they currently do it; deaf ears from NHRA.

5. Good start.

6. racer's have asked before and NHRA will not do it.

7. Again, your proposal for the last 3 years.

...and...

People race for pride and MONEY.
Dick...there are also many that race for the fun of it...believe it or not...

Lynn A McCarty · 04-09-2008, 02:43 PM

Some good points here.

Important points you left out:

How do you address an engine that runs 1.6 under?
What about modified cars with no horsepower ratings?
What about unreasonable after market parts?
What about bogus intake runner numbers for heads up?
What about bogus deck heights?
What about bogus castings?

Why limit to 32 cars? One round takes 64 to 32 without pissing everyone else off...two rounds 128 to 32. Practice is greatly boring and greatly overrated. Just run heads up instead of practice. It would make our points races much more interesting. If you dont care just use it as a practice run. Maybe actually a fan or two might show up!

I am with you on the heads up thing, but on opposite ends of the spectrum on how to do it.

Dick Butler · 04-09-2008, 03:08 PM

Sponsors want big Names Yes but even more they dont want to INCREASE the class postings for MORE classes. Give them the opportunity to Decrease the number and Increase the Per class.
Other models----AHFS will factor the camaros if in fact they are faster. The fact they are a favoite choice also affects the numbers.
Decrease Classes. Yes people have spoken against it but which is worse the whining about BOGUS hp and not doing something to correct it or taking a dead horse to the derby every week.
Altitude correction is My proposal to make it work better I m not sure they would accept but it would help.
Remember I am discussing how to make the AHFS WORK. Not the favorite way to make factoring work but that is the method we have now so these thoughts are using the current system.
People race for fun.. I raced for fun and I KNOW others do. However there is a level of frustration generated by people complaining about factoring, bogus runs and etc which does affect even the most died in the wool racers attitude and they might accept some changes which would make OTHERS happier too.
It doesnt say in my post that people racing for fun are not allowed.... I have no intention of disregarding this reason for racing just making the AHFS MORE affective if no other method is here.
Lastly remember I am only stating these things would help make AHFS work. Also no one will like all the suggestions just an opinion.
Regarding the combining of classes. Yes I have been suggesting it and feel very strongly it is the only way to HELP S and SS racing regain lots of advantages, Money, Spectator appeal and new excitement for the racers themselves....
Thank you for the kind responses.

Dick Butler · 04-09-2008, 03:16 PM

Lynn, -1.6 would be -factored.
MOD factored index or go to comp in the first place they are not SS or S rule cars. with out the teardown form of varification we use that should be their class.
Unreasonable aftermarket parts? Everyone is getting something with time. If you go fast with them you get factored > If you get beat by them push them to run under and get factored.
All the rest of your questions are really TECH issues. But if you go fast you get factored if it is obviously out of line regardless what tech "evolution" occurs.
The alternative to moving with the parts market introduction and acceptance is a SPEC casting, SPec Carb type class and I am not in that discussion with this Post.
64 Classes fine but remember the fewer the classes the MORE it uses the AHFS because to win the bigger money or reward of accomplishment or FUN the more the bogus HP sticks out the quicker...
Thank You for the thoughts....
What ways can you tune the AHFS without formulas and using our current system...?

Lyn Smith · 04-09-2008, 05:54 PM

Please tell me why everyone wants to change the indexes??????????????????????????

Dick Butler · 04-09-2008, 06:37 PM

Index was a great device suggested years ago to create a national et for all cars to race from that was stable. It was slow enough that almost all racers could use and bracket race in S and SS. With time it was recognized that being allowed to dial under it so break outs and dangerous braking would be less frequent. Now with the advances of current rules and parts and skill they "seem" to be very attainable by the majority of racers.It could be it is time to just move them several tenths down along with the trigger to AHFS and class winner status to make eliminator to make a smaller number under as a level of success.
I am not sure if anyone who brings a stocker to the races today doesnt get to race because he cannot run index. If eveyone can run on or under first time out is that what the goal? Should some achievement be needed to break into Stock or SS racing? Not my call, just a question?

bsa633 · 04-09-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

6)Move Indexes down .5 and make trigger -.65 using this number..

What difference would just that part make from todays standards..really?? other than make a very few slow cars uncompetitive..the number for a trigger would be the just same as today...

Dick Butler · 04-09-2008, 10:14 PM

Triggers must be there to factor cars. THe game was making it worthwhile to run fast. 1) to win class2 To win class prestige and More likelly to RACE each other.

bsa633 · 04-09-2008, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Triggers must be there to factor cars.

yes..or some kind of system..but if you lower the index and trigger the same amount...it really dosent solve anything of todays "problems" with sandbagging or?

04-09-2008, 02:43 PM	#3
Lynn A McCarty Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Plainfield (INDY) Indiana Posts: 468 Likes: 1 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: This will make AHFS work Some good points here. Important points you left out: How do you address an engine that runs 1.6 under? What about modified cars with no horsepower ratings? What about unreasonable after market parts? What about bogus intake runner numbers for heads up? What about bogus deck heights? What about bogus castings? Why limit to 32 cars? One round takes 64 to 32 without pissing everyone else off...two rounds 128 to 32. Practice is greatly boring and greatly overrated. Just run heads up instead of practice. It would make our points races much more interesting. If you dont care just use it as a practice run. Maybe actually a fan or two might show up! I am with you on the heads up thing, but on opposite ends of the spectrum on how to do it. __________________ Lynn A McCarty 3470 SS

04-09-2008, 03:08 PM	#4
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: This will make AHFS work Sponsors want big Names Yes but even more they dont want to INCREASE the class postings for MORE classes. Give them the opportunity to Decrease the number and Increase the Per class. Other models----AHFS will factor the camaros if in fact they are faster. The fact they are a favoite choice also affects the numbers. Decrease Classes. Yes people have spoken against it but which is worse the whining about BOGUS hp and not doing something to correct it or taking a dead horse to the derby every week. Altitude correction is My proposal to make it work better I m not sure they would accept but it would help. Remember I am discussing how to make the AHFS WORK. Not the favorite way to make factoring work but that is the method we have now so these thoughts are using the current system. People race for fun.. I raced for fun and I KNOW others do. However there is a level of frustration generated by people complaining about factoring, bogus runs and etc which does affect even the most died in the wool racers attitude and they might accept some changes which would make OTHERS happier too. It doesnt say in my post that people racing for fun are not allowed.... I have no intention of disregarding this reason for racing just making the AHFS MORE affective if no other method is here. Lastly remember I am only stating these things would help make AHFS work. Also no one will like all the suggestions just an opinion. Regarding the combining of classes. Yes I have been suggesting it and feel very strongly it is the only way to HELP S and SS racing regain lots of advantages, Money, Spectator appeal and new excitement for the racers themselves.... Thank you for the kind responses.

04-09-2008, 03:16 PM	#5
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: This will make AHFS work Lynn, -1.6 would be -factored. MOD factored index or go to comp in the first place they are not SS or S rule cars. with out the teardown form of varification we use that should be their class. Unreasonable aftermarket parts? Everyone is getting something with time. If you go fast with them you get factored > If you get beat by them push them to run under and get factored. All the rest of your questions are really TECH issues. But if you go fast you get factored if it is obviously out of line regardless what tech "evolution" occurs. The alternative to moving with the parts market introduction and acceptance is a SPEC casting, SPec Carb type class and I am not in that discussion with this Post. 64 Classes fine but remember the fewer the classes the MORE it uses the AHFS because to win the bigger money or reward of accomplishment or FUN the more the bogus HP sticks out the quicker... Thank You for the thoughts.... What ways can you tune the AHFS without formulas and using our current system...?

04-09-2008, 05:54 PM	#6
Lyn Smith VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Pontiac,il. Posts: 1,195 Likes: 278 Liked 951 Times in 190 Posts	Re: This will make AHFS work Please tell me why everyone wants to change the indexes??????????????????????????

04-09-2008, 06:37 PM	#7
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: This will make AHFS work Index was a great device suggested years ago to create a national et for all cars to race from that was stable. It was slow enough that almost all racers could use and bracket race in S and SS. With time it was recognized that being allowed to dial under it so break outs and dangerous braking would be less frequent. Now with the advances of current rules and parts and skill they "seem" to be very attainable by the majority of racers.It could be it is time to just move them several tenths down along with the trigger to AHFS and class winner status to make eliminator to make a smaller number under as a level of success. I am not sure if anyone who brings a stocker to the races today doesnt get to race because he cannot run index. If eveyone can run on or under first time out is that what the goal? Should some achievement be needed to break into Stock or SS racing? Not my call, just a question?

04-09-2008, 02:04 PM	#1
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	This will make AHFS work The goal as I understand it is to factor motors down to a more even playing field, Regardless what has made the combination that way. People race for pride and MONEY. People need smaller goals than Eliminator so more people share success in their racing. 1)Do what it takes to pay BIG money with sponsors and /or cash for class. If this means reduce Eliminator money so be it. Give a Trophy and ?$. 2) That means fewer classes to pay. Make it so Class is a challenge to win to earn the money and that brings pride too. 3)Decrease classes in SS and S to 32 each. This helps increase the money available per class to help with #1 and #2 4)Correct class runs et to sea level. Use this for factoring if needed. If ET warrants factor -tear down at that event to prove legal for class win and factor. 5)New motors only by application to NHRA and factored on closest previous family motor. Old Motors not previously in competition start by applying. 6)Move Indexes down .5 and make trigger -.65 using this number. Runs on class finals subject to review for sand bagging. 7)64 car fields-32 class winners under index and 32 quick qualifiers....left. These things could reward MORE people for hard work, PAY more to win class. Identify bogus motor HP. faster and if weather is used it will protect the racers from killer conditions at one race when they only race in average weather.

04-09-2008, 10:14 PM	#9
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: This will make AHFS work Triggers must be there to factor cars. THe game was making it worthwhile to run fast. 1) to win class2 To win class prestige and More likelly to RACE each other.