Ladder Bar Car: Trans Brake or Foot Brake?

[Bill Rolik]

Pertaining to the potential revival of a very good ladder bar Super Stocker (71 340 Cuda with outstanding weight distribution), I would like some input regarding the use of a trans brake, or staying with a foot brake scenario (the ladder bar setup will be retained). It has been mentioned to me that a car with a brake should be equipped with a 4-link for maximum effectiveness, whereas attempting to run a ladder bar car with a brake may cause some issues. Once again, this car has outstanding weight distribution, and was last run (consistent 10.70's) prior to cylinder head porting even being permitted. Also, it will not make another pass without wheelie bars, as it can go right to the stratosphere without hitching a ride on the Space Shuttle.

Thanks to all in advance for your help!

Bill Rolik

[Jeff Lee]

I once ran an AMX with ladder bars and a 451 mopar. I ran both the 727 and a PG with brakes on each. There were no issues. Even with it's wheelie bars it would go way up.
Right now I'm putting ladder bars on my car and it's a 4-speed. Sure a 4-link may allow more control but a full back-half & 4-link is just not in my budget right now. And I like the simplicity of a ladder bar also as it is less "track sensitive".

[Tom Goldman]

Bill, There are still some really great working cars out there with ladder bars. ........The key,as in any suspension is not how many attachments the links have ,but how you dampen them. .......A quality set of double adjustable shocks will allow you to make the ladder work nearly as well as the 4 link. .....The setup between foot and trans brake is one primarly of launch rpm ,converter design,and shock settings. ....Good luck with your return. .......Tom

[Bill Rolik]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I once ran an AMX with ladder bars and a 451 mopar. I ran both the 727 and a PG with brakes on each. There were no issues. Even with it's wheelie bars it would go way up.
Right now I'm putting ladder bars on my car and it's a 4-speed. Sure a 4-link may allow more control but a full back-half & 4-link is just not in my budget right now. And I like the simplicity of a ladder bar also as it is less "track sensitive".

Jeff,

Thanks for the reply.

In order to have the best chance to have this "revival" come together, budget is certainly one of the things to be considered here, but another would be simplicity. This car worked extremely well when I (along with car owner Bill Meerholz) drove it. I was always a big believer in good static weight distribution (important for "track sensitivity" too) with my Duster as well, and because of that, my belief is that the ladder bar, at least in this particular car, would be fine as is. Also, I was assuming that virtually everyone uses a brake, but perhaps that is not the case?

Bill Rolik

[Bill Rolik]

Originally Posted by Tom Goldman

Bill, There are still some really great working cars out there with ladder bars. ........The key,as in any suspension is not how many attachments the links have ,but how you dampen them. .......A quality set of double adjustable shocks will allow you to make the ladder work nearly as well as the 4 link. .....The setup between foot and trans brake is one primarly of launch rpm ,converter design,and shock settings. ....Good luck with your return. .......Tom

Wow,

AMXers are on the case!

Because I last drove in pre-historic times (1989), neither my Duster nor the Cuda benefitted from today's quality shocks. However, the Cuda at least had the orange Koni's on the front. 11.5 X 32 Firestones were all that was needed on the back. Since the Cuda is a bit of a lard-*** at 3500+ pounds, I am sure this was a factor. Also, I have never driven with a brake, so initially, I would go with the foot brake anyway.

Tom, thanks much for the input!

Bill Rolik

[Jeff Lee]

Tom is correct, shocks make all the difference. I would look at AFCO or Santuff.
Kip Martin has the SS/K record in the ten-teens with his 289/210 Mustang using ladder bars. And that car can go as high as any car out there! Interesting design too. The driver side bar is "toed in" quite a bit which allows him to launch with no pre-load to keep it straight. His 60' times are barely over 1.30.
I used to run an 11.5x29.5 on that old AMX. Worked very well for me.
I wonder if a 11.5x32 like your old Firestone is still available? I could probably use something like that.

[Tom Goldman]

Bill, you'd be suprised how many of the really good leaving ,quick cars in SS are on the foot brake. ....Many of these cars are faster on the foot because of converter flash and chassis hit. ....Mostly it comes down to driving style, which do you feel more comfortable with on the tree. ........I agree with Jeff, I'd go with Afco shocks,their valving selection is great for drag applications. .....An 11.5x32 is'nt available from Phoenix anymore,but the 12.2x31.25 still is @about a 100" rollout.......This used to be a real popular tire for medium HP SS cars a few years back, but lost favor when the radials took over. still a good choice for running the car in "bracket" mode......... ...Tom

[Bill Rolik]

Tom,

Thanks again for the reply.

AFCO at one time was strictly oval track-oriented, but I understand that their drag products are excellent as well. Also, I have known Sonny Stancil for many years, and he has always spoken highly of the Santhuff pieces. When I bought the Shadow GT car from Sonny, it had Koni's in the rear. And later, when he repurchased it from me (before it went to Ken Etter, who owns it now), Santhuff got the call again. At the appropriate time, I will investigate their offerings for a stock-bodied non-GT/non-strut car such as the Cuda.

Also, I used 12.2 X 31.25 "straight" and "W" tires on my Duster, which was equally as good with weight distribution, but weighed about 60 pounds less. I am sure the Cuda would do nicely with either one. The 5.86 gear (Dana) would remain initially. I see no scenario where the car would need a 14 X 32 tire. I have no history with radials, so that thought can be entertained at another time.

And yes, the initial approach would be to have properly matched shocks, retain the ladder bar, add wheelie bars, and for familiarity and simplicity, stay with the foot brake. Structurally, this is an outstanding car. But other peripherals, such as fuel system including cell, electrical upgrades, weather station, air shifter, aluminum radiator, current-technology cylinder heads/valve gear etc. would be needed. It does have Lamb front discs with drums in the rear. The short block that was in the car when last run would probably be tough to significantly improve on. A second option would be to go with a low compression 340 for GT/JA. Cosmetically, it is currently all White, with some color options being considered.

Sorry for being a bit long-winded, and thanks again for your help!

Bill Rolik

[trmnatr]

Why is everybody going to radials?

How do they hook when leaving at 5,000rpm-5,500rpm with a transbrake?

[Dave Goob Cook]

Originally Posted by trmnatr

Why is everybody going to radials?

How do they hook when leaving at 5,000rpm-5,500rpm with a transbrake?

They are fast, stable to drive on, don't leak air ever, true tubeless, sidewalls last better, no growth, slim section width profile, no need for rim screws,...etc.

They work fine on my ride, Stock legal rear suspension, 3400-3600 two-step and 5250 stall coming off. Only 3250 lbs. or so, but 1.37 to 1.40's anywhere, anytime. Oh yeah, Atlas non-gas charged replacement shocks on the rear, and Stocker Stars on the front.

I like Goodyears, but that is for the compound selections, a Hoosier may be faster for some, on some tracks, but I bracket race.