Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars

69Cobra · 10-04-2011, 05:09 AM

Hello All,
I was just wondering if you guys could shine some light on this subject for me. I've been noticing lately that alot of the lower class cars D thru K or so are actually using a roll cage when its not really needed per the ET breaks. I'm guessing the cage stiffens up the chassis and could prove better 60' times. Is there a proven advantage in the 60' or something?

Robert Simpson · 10-04-2011, 07:45 AM

It does stiffen things up. Some of the cars cross over to super stock in a class that required a cage. But me, I am looking to put one in my stocker because of the increasing speed differences. 145mph plus? vs my 110mph I just see it as safety. I would like to hear what the weight difference has been from a mild steel roll bar vs. a chrome moly roll cage? No front bars of course.

buzzinhalfdozen · 10-04-2011, 08:45 AM

3 years ago took out a 6 point MS roll bar, installed an 8 point CM roll cage Aprox. 20 Lbs. lighter even after adding more tubes. This is just my opinion but given the choice I see no reason not to go with CM, yes it's more expensive and requires tig welding but think back to the first question anyone asks' when looking at a car.... "is it MS or CM?" On a full cage and frame the weight savings are substantial.

Jim B · 10-04-2011, 03:46 PM

Don't forget that when you use a CM cage instead of a 6 point MS roll bar the tubes can be a smaller diameter and thinner wall which saves some weight in the overall installation. Consult with a chassis builder for specifics but the weight savings is pretty significant since several CM tubes in the cage can be less than 1/2 the required wall thickness of MS. As buzzinhalfdozen points out his CM cage was lighter than his MS roll bar. Generally speaking a properly sized 10 point CM cage weighs about the same (within 10 lbs) as a 6 point MS roll bar!!!

Jeff Lee · 10-04-2011, 08:05 PM

CM is the way to go. Lighter. Stronger. And CM doesn't rust!
My mistake when I built my CM roll bar for Stock class was not using a drivers side rocker bar. I thought the fact I had a CM bar everything would be fine. When I switched to SS class, I had the roll bar converted to a roll-cage. Still no rocker bar. In the end, somewhere along the way, the (slightly) rusty floor separated from the rocker, causing chassis problems. Now I'm building a complete back-half (CM) with 4-link. I may not have gone this route had the chassis remained true.

Notch1320 · 10-04-2011, 10:54 PM

I am finishing up an 8,50 cert CM cage in my K/.S car. Added safety, lighter than a MS roll bar and room to grow/move up!

danny waters sr · 10-05-2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

CM is the way to go. Lighter. Stronger. And CM doesn't rust!
My mistake when I built my CM roll bar for Stock class was not using a drivers side rocker bar. I thought the fact I had a CM bar everything would be fine. When I switched to SS class, I had the roll bar converted to a roll-cage. Still no rocker bar. In the end, somewhere along the way, the (slightly) rusty floor separated from the rocker, causing chassis problems. Now I'm building a complete back-half (CM) with 4-link. I may not have gone this route had the chassis remained true.

The rocker bar is required now, even on the 10.5 cars

Mike Taylor 3601 · 10-05-2011, 10:15 AM

I have c/m cage in my pure stocker when I built it I was and still going to K/S.I went with cage because I figure cage will eventaully be required,and as others have said c/m cage weighs about same as mild roll bar.
Mike Taylor 3601

69Cobra · 10-05-2011, 11:13 AM

Thanks for the replies guys. One last question. Is it required to cut the top off the car to install a cage?

Jeff Lee · 10-05-2011, 11:45 AM

No you do not have to remove the roof. The top portions of the bar are tack welded in the car and the lower legs are dropped through the floor sections so you can get a 360 degree weld on all of the top portions. Afterwards the bar is raised and secured to the floors.

10-04-2011, 05:09 AM	#1
69Cobra Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: California, Ky Posts: 669 Likes: 61 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in lower class cars Hello All, I was just wondering if you guys could shine some light on this subject for me. I've been noticing lately that alot of the lower class cars D thru K or so are actually using a roll cage when its not really needed per the ET breaks. I'm guessing the cage stiffens up the chassis and could prove better 60' times. Is there a proven advantage in the 60' or something? __________________ Kris Rachford 69 Cobra 428CJ 4 Speed C/S 3032 Last edited by 69Cobra; 10-04-2011 at 05:30 AM.

10-04-2011, 07:45 AM	#2
Robert Simpson Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Jacksonville, Florida Posts: 808 Likes: 7 Liked 20 Times in 12 Posts	Re: Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars It does stiffen things up. Some of the cars cross over to super stock in a class that required a cage. But me, I am looking to put one in my stocker because of the increasing speed differences. 145mph plus? vs my 110mph I just see it as safety. I would like to hear what the weight difference has been from a mild steel roll bar vs. a chrome moly roll cage? No front bars of course.

10-04-2011, 08:45 AM	#3
buzzinhalfdozen Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Bellevue Ohio Posts: 984 Likes: 0 Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts	Re: Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars 3 years ago took out a 6 point MS roll bar, installed an 8 point CM roll cage Aprox. 20 Lbs. lighter even after adding more tubes. This is just my opinion but given the choice I see no reason not to go with CM, yes it's more expensive and requires tig welding but think back to the first question anyone asks' when looking at a car.... "is it MS or CM?" On a full cage and frame the weight savings are substantial. __________________ Joe Buchanan SS/BX 3117

10-04-2011, 03:46 PM	#4
Jim B Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 100 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars Don't forget that when you use a CM cage instead of a 6 point MS roll bar the tubes can be a smaller diameter and thinner wall which saves some weight in the overall installation. Consult with a chassis builder for specifics but the weight savings is pretty significant since several CM tubes in the cage can be less than 1/2 the required wall thickness of MS. As buzzinhalfdozen points out his CM cage was lighter than his MS roll bar. Generally speaking a properly sized 10 point CM cage weighs about the same (within 10 lbs) as a 6 point MS roll bar!!! Last edited by Jim B; 10-04-2011 at 04:11 PM.

10-04-2011, 08:05 PM	#5
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars CM is the way to go. Lighter. Stronger. And CM doesn't rust! My mistake when I built my CM roll bar for Stock class was not using a drivers side rocker bar. I thought the fact I had a CM bar everything would be fine. When I switched to SS class, I had the roll bar converted to a roll-cage. Still no rocker bar. In the end, somewhere along the way, the (slightly) rusty floor separated from the rocker, causing chassis problems. Now I'm building a complete back-half (CM) with 4-link. I may not have gone this route had the chassis remained true. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX

10-04-2011, 10:54 PM	#6
Notch1320 Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Yuba City, CA Posts: 220 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars I am finishing up an 8,50 cert CM cage in my K/.S car. Added safety, lighter than a MS roll bar and room to grow/move up! __________________ Shawn Allsup K/S 718

10-05-2011, 10:15 AM	#8
Mike Taylor 3601 VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Somerset,Ky Posts: 1,372 Likes: 354 Liked 307 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars I have c/m cage in my pure stocker when I built it I was and still going to K/S.I went with cage because I figure cage will eventaully be required,and as others have said c/m cage weighs about same as mild roll bar. Mike Taylor 3601

10-05-2011, 11:13 AM	#9
69Cobra Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: California, Ky Posts: 669 Likes: 61 Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars Thanks for the replies guys. One last question. Is it required to cut the top off the car to install a cage? __________________ Kris Rachford 69 Cobra 428CJ 4 Speed C/S 3032

10-05-2011, 11:45 AM	#10
Jeff Lee VIP Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Anthem, Arizona Posts: 2,766 Likes: 0 Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Re: Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars No you do not have to remove the roof. The top portions of the bar are tack welded in the car and the lower legs are dropped through the floor sections so you can get a 360 degree weld on all of the top portions. Afterwards the bar is raised and secured to the floors. __________________ Jeff Lee 7494 D/S '70 AMX