Eliminate AHFS

SDmopar · 07-25-2025, 10:10 AM

It seems as the majority of us here want to keep the sovereignty of Class racing alive. If the Automatic system was cancelled how could the Sanctioning bodies rate evaluate HP ratings? It seems that the majority hate the bogus combos and ratings on new combinations. Everyone wants to be able to run wide open without penalties. People also have combos that have been murdered and are no longer competitive. Personally I like a system that looks at the data. It?s the most unbiased constant way that requires the least amount of energy for the sanctioning body. I feel the real hole in the current system is it only corrects the softer combos or penalizes the players that make there stuff fast. I could be convinced that if the top 3 cars in each combo can go -1.30 they should get hp. I also believe if the 3 fastest cars in a combo can?t go -1 under they should get a reduction. When the fastest meet in class it?s obvious who has the hp rating advantage.

Throw up some ideas. But keep in mind there is a car coming to play that everyone is concerned with it?s ratings. How do you balance the new bogus numbers with the combos that got crushed early because someone thought they needed HP.

GUMP · 07-25-2025, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDmopar

Throw up some ideas. But keep in mind there is a car coming to play that everyone is concerned with it?s ratings. How do you balance the new bogus numbers with the combos that got crushed early because someone thought they needed HP.

You literally race a combination that dominated until it didn't. Send me your address and I'll ship you some Kleenex....

SDmopar · 07-25-2025, 11:18 AM

No Kleenex needed here. I personally have no issues with new combinations getting brought in. I find it amusing when people have a combination of completely aftermarket engine complaining about what others are running or how it?s rated. I appreciate your builds and in no way am trying to bash what you do. My question is post is simply what are some ideas to rate combinations. Let?s go back to original HP ratings with no penalties? Honestly that would be amazing for some and not for other's. I?d be ok with it but my combo would be one of the most bogus out there. I can run well up here in the crap conditions we have and I?m proud of what I?ve been able to get out of it as currently rated. It just seems much like society we want our cake and eat it to.

DG · 07-25-2025, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDmopar

No Kleenex needed here. I personally have no issues with new combinations getting brought in. I find it amusing when people have a combination of completely aftermarket engine complaining about what others are running or how it?s rated. I appreciate your builds and in no way am trying to bash what you do. My question is post is simply what are some ideas to rate combinations. Let?s go back to original HP ratings with no penalties? Honestly that would be amazing for some and not for other's. I?d be ok with it but my combo would be one of the most bogus out there. I can run well up here in the crap conditions we have and I?m proud of what I?ve been able to get out of it as currently rated. It just seems much like society we want our cake and eat it to.

I remember running 4th generation Camaro's and Pontiacs heads up in H/SA. It wasn't pretty.

GUMP · 07-25-2025, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDmopar

No Kleenex needed here. I personally have no issues with new combinations getting brought in. I find it amusing when people have a combination of completely aftermarket engine complaining about what others are running or how it?s rated. I appreciate your builds and in no way am trying to bash what you do. My question is post is simply what are some ideas to rate combinations. Let?s go back to original HP ratings with no penalties? Honestly that would be amazing for some and not for other's. I?d be ok with it but my combo would be one of the most bogus out there. I can run well up here in the crap conditions we have and I?m proud of what I?ve been able to get out of it as currently rated. It just seems much like society we want our cake and eat it to.

I hear Ya. Know that I am just picking, so nothing harsh meant.

At the house I have a monster collection of old magazines from the sixties and early seventies. The argument was much the same back then. I really don't know that there is a good answer. I do know that you will never make everyone happy.

James Perrone · 07-25-2025, 01:38 PM

GUMP you gotta be kidding me. LT1 Chevy is soft
Hasn’t been for quite a while
Really ?
How soft is that Mr Softy machine called.a Nissan Supra gonna be?
I haven?t seen you race anything that wasn?t real soft until it wasn?t
Like me when I with my wife, I get hard cause it?s all natural not underrated
And yes, I?m a little jealous that you are able to race really nice expensive cars. I only wish I could have.

Jack McCarthy · 07-25-2025, 02:03 PM

As the ?enhancements? advanced it has been hard for most to anticipate the effect say of duration / springs ?? A L88 not as much as say a 283 ??
So by allowing each and every whiny enhancement they created the -1.75 cars

No one in NHRA had the knowledge to police it (maybe only 2-5 people in country) sooo they put in place the Automatic Help for Slugs ? and we all know how great that works last 10 Indy?s it?s been virgin hp trucks or -30hp 302 fffords on top and NONE of them have taken HP hits

Only solution I see is NHRA get off thier wallets and hire some motor builders to review all hp adjustments ????

Or we just sell the fastest qualifier spots to the heavyweight wallets

Alan Roehrich · 07-25-2025, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy

As the ?enhancements? advanced it has been hard for most to anticipate the effect say of duration / springs ?? A L88 not as much as say a 283 ??
So by allowing each and every whiny enhancement they created the -1.75 cars

No one in NHRA had the knowledge to police it (maybe only 2-5 people in country) sooo they put in place the Automatic Help for Slugs ? and we all know how great that works last 10 Indy?s it?s been virgin hp trucks or -30hp 302 fffords on top and NONE of them have taken HP hits

Only solution I see is NHRA get off thier wallets and hire some motor builders to review all hp adjustments ????

Or we just sell the fastest qualifier spots to the heavyweight wallets

Jack, that assumes NHRA wanted to enforce their rules, and gave a damn about the playing field being level. they don't want the hassle. They had/have people who know/knew more than enough about the rules, the enhancements, and engine building to resolve the issue.

Wasn't that long ago, they hired the guy back to get the job done. The squawling sounded like a herd of long tailed cats in a room full of rocking chairs, then some of the criers sued NHRA and the guy they hired because the rules got enforced.

goinbroke2 · 07-25-2025, 02:37 PM

As one with a soft combo...

How much $$ should you have to spend to hit the index? Or should you be able to hit the index with blueprinting and maximizing stock stuff?

What would the "standard build" require? You need a cam/springs, you need a converter and gears....what else should you need to hit the index?

(keep in mind, when this started there was NO "race" parts allowed, even the trim on the car had to be correct)

Pull a used car off a lot and do the cam/springs/converter/gears/slicks, what does that get you? Can you hit the index or do you need a set of $5000 heads, $600 carb, aftermarket forged rotating assembly, $12,000 transmission.....

What is the purpose? Are we getting the most out of a stock vehicle or are we replacing all the stock parts with full on race parts?

Are we meticulously going over every single thing for less drag or are we just buying less drag components?

This started out racing factory stock vehicles and has turned into full blown race cars with some stock parts remaining.

My intent was to find a soft combo, build it as money and time allows and hit the index then at some point make it quick enough that I could set a record.

The AHFS to me is something to limit runaway spending. You run fast (parts or work or both) and you get a hp rating re-evaluation.(added weight)

Choices are;
1) stay under the trigger
2) set records/go wide open and get hp.

If somebody else hits the trigger? Sucks to be you, but that's how it works.

EDIT: Just saw James Perones comment and thought it was dead on.
"So go to Indy and try not to go 130 under
And if you can go 130 under you should get HP"

GUMP · 07-25-2025, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Perrone

GUMP you gotta be kidding me. LT1 Chevy is soft
Hasn?t been for quite a while

My first Stocker was a 1995 Formula that I purchased new. It currently has 000186 miles on the odometer and is a 1-of-1 car. I ran it exclusively in the IHRA and even set a few records with it. So, I am familiar with the history of the LT1.

By the time I quit racing that car it was pretty competetive. I wouldn't even consider running it in Stock Eliminator now.

07-25-2025, 10:10 AM	#1
SDmopar Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Milbank SD Posts: 97 Likes: 16 Liked 207 Times in 49 Posts	Eliminate AHFS It seems as the majority of us here want to keep the sovereignty of Class racing alive. If the Automatic system was cancelled how could the Sanctioning bodies rate evaluate HP ratings? It seems that the majority hate the bogus combos and ratings on new combinations. Everyone wants to be able to run wide open without penalties. People also have combos that have been murdered and are no longer competitive. Personally I like a system that looks at the data. It?s the most unbiased constant way that requires the least amount of energy for the sanctioning body. I feel the real hole in the current system is it only corrects the softer combos or penalizes the players that make there stuff fast. I could be convinced that if the top 3 cars in each combo can go -1.30 they should get hp. I also believe if the 3 fastest cars in a combo can?t go -1 under they should get a reduction. When the fastest meet in class it?s obvious who has the hp rating advantage. Throw up some ideas. But keep in mind there is a car coming to play that everyone is concerned with it?s ratings. How do you balance the new bogus numbers with the combos that got crushed early because someone thought they needed HP. __________________ Brian Anderson 5058 B/SA 99 Chevy Camaro SS

07-25-2025, 11:18 AM	#3
SDmopar Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Milbank SD Posts: 97 Likes: 16 Liked 207 Times in 49 Posts	Re: Eliminate AHFS No Kleenex needed here. I personally have no issues with new combinations getting brought in. I find it amusing when people have a combination of completely aftermarket engine complaining about what others are running or how it?s rated. I appreciate your builds and in no way am trying to bash what you do. My question is post is simply what are some ideas to rate combinations. Let?s go back to original HP ratings with no penalties? Honestly that would be amazing for some and not for other's. I?d be ok with it but my combo would be one of the most bogus out there. I can run well up here in the crap conditions we have and I?m proud of what I?ve been able to get out of it as currently rated. It just seems much like society we want our cake and eat it to. __________________ Brian Anderson 5058 B/SA 99 Chevy Camaro SS

07-25-2025, 01:38 PM	#6
James Perrone VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: LONG ISLAND N.Y. Posts: 1,684 Likes: 3,395 Liked 1,829 Times in 427 Posts	Re: Eliminate AHFS GUMP you gotta be kidding me. LT1 Chevy is soft Hasn’t been for quite a while Really ? How soft is that Mr Softy machine called.a Nissan Supra gonna be? I haven?t seen you race anything that wasn?t real soft until it wasn?t Like me when I with my wife, I get hard cause it?s all natural not underrated And yes, I?m a little jealous that you are able to race really nice expensive cars. I only wish I could have. __________________ james perrone 1290 STK

07-25-2025, 02:03 PM	#7
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,322 Likes: 29 Liked 477 Times in 117 Posts	Re: Eliminate AHFS As the ?enhancements? advanced it has been hard for most to anticipate the effect say of duration / springs ?? A L88 not as much as say a 283 ?? So by allowing each and every whiny enhancement they created the -1.75 cars No one in NHRA had the knowledge to police it (maybe only 2-5 people in country) sooo they put in place the Automatic Help for Slugs ? and we all know how great that works last 10 Indy?s it?s been virgin hp trucks or -30hp 302 fffords on top and NONE of them have taken HP hits Only solution I see is NHRA get off thier wallets and hire some motor builders to review all hp adjustments ???? Or we just sell the fastest qualifier spots to the heavyweight wallets __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

07-25-2025, 02:37 PM	#9
goinbroke2 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: NS CANADA Posts: 899 Likes: 1,673 Liked 397 Times in 156 Posts	Re: Eliminate AHFS As one with a soft combo... How much $$ should you have to spend to hit the index? Or should you be able to hit the index with blueprinting and maximizing stock stuff? What would the "standard build" require? You need a cam/springs, you need a converter and gears....what else should you need to hit the index? (keep in mind, when this started there was NO "race" parts allowed, even the trim on the car had to be correct) Pull a used car off a lot and do the cam/springs/converter/gears/slicks, what does that get you? Can you hit the index or do you need a set of $5000 heads, $600 carb, aftermarket forged rotating assembly, $12,000 transmission..... What is the purpose? Are we getting the most out of a stock vehicle or are we replacing all the stock parts with full on race parts? Are we meticulously going over every single thing for less drag or are we just buying less drag components? This started out racing factory stock vehicles and has turned into full blown race cars with some stock parts remaining. My intent was to find a soft combo, build it as money and time allows and hit the index then at some point make it quick enough that I could set a record. The AHFS to me is something to limit runaway spending. You run fast (parts or work or both) and you get a hp rating re-evaluation.(added weight) Choices are; 1) stay under the trigger 2) set records/go wide open and get hp. If somebody else hits the trigger? Sucks to be you, but that's how it works. EDIT: Just saw James Perones comment and thought it was dead on. "So go to Indy and try not to go 130 under And if you can go 130 under you should get HP" __________________ Jim Miller 103 U/SA Last edited by goinbroke2; 07-25-2025 at 02:44 PM.