Mid-year horsepower posted @ nhra.com

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Jared Jordan

Can someone enlighten me as to the advantages of a 1 lb. weight break? I fail to see how that fixes anything. Sounds DECENT for a lower horsepower car that might have to add 200-300 lbs to move between classes, but what about the high horsepower stuff?

Example:

'10 Super Cobra Jet rated @ 500 hp.

6.00 lb. class = 3170 lbs
7.00 lb. class = 3670 lbs

I for one would not like having to find/remove 500 lbs. of weight to change classes. Is that the idea? To keep people in one class?

I'll say this much: that'd keep the Belvedere locked away for the rest of its life. I can't get to 3170 and I don't feel like turning it into a lead sled.

Well, the idea behind one pound weight breaks is to consolidate classes. Yes, one pound weight breaks would tend to keep you from moving between classes. That is not the reason for it at all, it is just one of the side effects.

What would you have done two years or so ago before we campaigned for and got AA? The break for A was 8.0 back then, that was as light as you could get. What Belvedere are you going to race in Stock that is rated at 500HP?

[Bench Racer]

The mustang and hemi still did not get hurt much in my opinion ( I don't have a car so I have no axe to grind) Them cars are rockets and I would hate to be in class with them. I understand that NHRA needs corporate involvement in racing so after the new wears off the "new" rockets maybe the playing field will be leveled. Thank goodness the manufacturers are willing to pump some $$'s and interest in the sport! Hopefully The next election will purge the crap out of the political machine and the country can get back on the right track! Don Jackson

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

Well, the idea behind one pound weight breaks is to consolidate classes. Yes, one pound weight breaks would tend to keep you from moving between classes. That is not the reason for it at all, it is just one of the side effects.

What would you have done two years or so ago before we campaigned for and got AA? The break for A was 8.0 back then, that was as light as you could get. What Belvedere are you going to race in Stock that is rated at 500HP?

Alan, Jared raced his grandfather's (Harry Holton) '65 Hemi Belvedere in SS/BA. I think he was referring to 1 pound weight breaks in upper Super Stock classes would make for a lot of weight to be added/removed to move to a different class. I remember some complaints when NHRA had FI Stock, and an LS-1 had to move 336 pounds up or down (rated 336 at the time) to move up to A/FI or down to C/FI, so a car would have needed 672 total moveable weight to change within the legal classes. In S/S, it would be worse, as all the cars in SS/A to SS/E are rated 400-500 HP.

Personally, I am 100% in favor of changing the rule to "a car can run ONLY in it's natural class". You can remove weight to make the top of your natural class, but nothing else. No moving up or down at all. That would eliminate some of the games and the "hiding".

-EDIT- The exception would be for a car that can not make a class, per the rules. Example, V-8 cars can not compete in V/SA, so a natural V car would have to run U, or the rule would have to ammended. Same with a 6 cylinder can not compete in W/SA, so it would have to move to V.

[Alan Roehrich]

I was referring only to Stock Eliminator in that post. Most of the upper class cars in Stock are rated at 395+, so yes, a 1 pound weight break means 400 pounds or more to move to another class. We're at 425, 435, and 445, depending on the engine that is in the car at the time. We've run at 435 since late 2007 I think, but we have a couple of other piece in the works. So yes, I understand having to move a lot of weight if the weight breaks went to 1 pound (my suggestion was to start at 7 pounds for AA).

There is a Super Stock car in the future, but we're running in Stock only right now, I have not looked that close at Super Stock.

[Mike Carr]

6 pounds SS/AH and SS/A
6.5 pounds SS/B
7 pounds SS/C
7.5 pounds AA/S = SS/D
8 pounds A/S = SS/E
8.5 pounds B/S = SS/F
10 pounds E/S = SS/I, then S/S becomes one pound classes. 11 = SS/J, 12 = SS/K, etc, down to SS/P = 16.

[Mike Carr]

Michael Beard, if you get some time, can you e-mail me, or post the spreadsheet on like Indexes. I think it could present a lot of issues (example, SS/EM 9.95 and SS/B-BA at 9.90), but would like to check it out. Thanks.

[Hagen Gary]

Some of you rich people make me laugh sometimes... We bairly have any new blood now. Do you think making it harder to win the Grand Prize of $1000 after spending half that just to go racing that weekend is going to help? Lets worry about whats going to keep this show going and not how to make it like it was yesteryear. Get used to it, Things change. Fast cars are not as impressive to a young person now as they were then. A competition involving old muscle cars vs newer american muscle is interesting to watch, but who are yall kiding? Nobody under 30 can afford this, and they have 45 years of bogus combo's to chose from as compaired to 10 back then. Everybody here knows how much it cost to go fast, and if they do it with something bogus, people talk crap about it to everyone who has an internet conection, so Performance loses it luster. It ain't just the economy, This ship is going down because we fail to attrack new blood. Why would anyone in thier right mind invest all this money? They would rather just throw thier money away in a poker tournament. Same man vs man competition, alot worse odds of winning if your an avg player, but at least your not investing $500 to win $1000 if you beat everyone. All those people who don't think low qualifing bracket cars should be racing in your performance based eliminator should thank them for keeping this ship going, or they would have no NHRA class to race in. Heads up is only 5% of the time, but I would take an extra 5% Guaranteed win upgrade. So go fast if you can afford it.

[Rich Aceves]

Alan,
I see no mention of Div.6 or 7 in your plan, I know you guys don't think much of us but a little consideration even if you don't mean it would be nice!

[Mike Carr]

Alan, I was meaning if one pound classes were in S/S, it would make for a 400-500 pound weight swing (or 800-1000) to switch to two or three classes. If S/S were one pound classes:

SS/A (and SS/AH) = 6.00
SS/B = 7.00
SS/C = 8.00
SS/D = 9.00 and so on

So if a car were to fall into this ''new'', natural SS/C at 8 pounds (something like a 426/425-450 '67 Street Hemi Plymouth), they would have to add/subtract 450 pounds to move to what would be the 'new' SS/B and SS/D classes, or 900 pounds of total adjustable weight, to make all three. That's an awful lot of weight. You would almost have to make a rule that a car can run it's natural class only, in 1 pound classes. So if a 427/425 Camaro has a weight break of, say, 8.53, it could only run the new SS/C(A).

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

Some of you rich people make me laugh sometimes... We bairly have any new blood now.

Unless you want to run in the higher classes, you do not need to be rich to be competitive. There are many competitive combinations in both classes.

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

Do you think making it harder to win the Grand Prize of $1000 after spending half that just to go racing that weekend is going to help? Lets worry about whats going to keep this show going and not how to make it like it was yesteryear. Get used to it, Things change.

The racer makes this choice.

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

Fast cars are not as impressive to a young person now as they were then. A competition involving old muscle cars vs newer american muscle is interesting to watch, but who are yall kiding?

Moreover, what is your point? Fast cars are not impressive to the young ones? There have always been fast cars throughout the years for each applicable era.

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

Nobody under 30 can afford this, and they have 45 years of bogus combo's to chose from as compaired to 10 back then.

Many started in the sport at an early age. What is your premise to say that people under 30 years cannot afford to race? Yes, 45 years of car options is called diversity and not all are bogus.

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

Everybody here knows how much it cost to go fast, and if they do it with something bogus, people talk crap about it to everyone who has an internet conection, so Performance loses it luster.

Since day one, there has always been controversy when someone goes fast. Yes, there are bogus combinations and they seem to have started to appear since Farmer Dismuke and Dave Danish left NHRA.

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

It ain't just the economy, This ship is going down because we fail to attrack new blood. Why would anyone in thier right mind invest all this money? They would rather just throw thier money away in a poker tournament. Same man vs man competition, alot worse odds of winning if your an avg player, but at least your not investing $500 to win $1000 if you beat everyone.

Again, the racer makes this choice on how to race and invest his money.

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

All those people who don't think low qualifing bracket cars should be racing in your performance based eliminator should thank them for keeping this ship going, or they would have no NHRA class to race in. Heads up is only 5% of the time, but I would take an extra 5% Guaranteed win upgrade. So go fast if you can afford it.

Stock and Super Stock classes, since their creation, are performance based and are the foundation for creativity, research and development. How do you classify a bracket car that does not meet a specification sheet? It is interesting when I see a bracket car with a big cubic inch engine, that will only go in the 11’s and when they see a low class stocker run fast than they do with mostly OEM parts, they go into shock. Finally, good racers pick combinations that are competitive and they do not always have to go fast.