Roll Cages vs. Roll Bars in higher class cars

[69Cobra]

Interesting...

[Dan Lattimore]

Do you have to run a window net in a stocker that is not required to have a cage but does?

[Jeff Lee]

Once you install a cage you have to follow cage rules. That means nets are required. NHRA looks at it that once your at that level of having a cage, even if it runs 15's, you have to conform to all of those safety rules.
Same as seatbelts. You can have a 15 second car with OEM belts and leave them there forever. But once you put aftermarket belts in, you have to recert or replace every two years.

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Once you install a cage you have to follow cage rules. That means nets are required. NHRA looks at it that once your at that level of having a cage, even if it runs 15's, you have to conform to all of those safety rules.
Same as seatbelts. You can have a 15 second car with OEM belts and leave them there forever. But once you put aftermarket belts in, you have to recert or replace every two years.

Jeff, you don't have to have a net unless you run under 10 seconds even with a cage.

[james schaechter]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Once you install a cage you have to follow cage rules. That means nets are required. NHRA looks at it that once your at that level of having a cage, even if it runs 15's, you have to conform to all of those safety rules.
Same as seatbelts. You can have a 15 second car with OEM belts and leave them there forever. But once you put aftermarket belts in, you have to recert or replace every two years.

Maybe that was the case in some divisions or when you raced last, but it does not seen to be the case now.
We inquired about window nets with a cage and the tech official said that if the car required a cage, yes, but if you had a cage that was not required it was not necessary.
A friend of ours had a P/Stick biscayne with a rollbar and it didn't even need new belts every 2 years when he ran it! Go figure.

I guess that is why the tech guys in each division have email. I would not follow my tech advice or anyone else's here. Your Division tech person is the one that needs to answer these. I doubt if a print screen from any of us will save you on any ruling disagreements with tech. LOL

I do think a moly cage is the way to go. My 2 cents.

[Jeff Lee]

James is correct, you better check with your DD. I just looked at my '08 rule book (and I doubt anything has changed in this regard but check the online & current version). Under window net, it says "mandatory on any full bodied car required by the rules to have a roll cage".
When I look under both Stock & Super Stock, the rules define which classes or ET require a roll-cage but allow a roll-cage for slower vehicles. There is no reference one way or the other that a net is required or even optional. So basically one could argue that since the rule is not clear, having a net could be an infraction in a class that does not require a roll-cage.
The rule book is full of ambiguities. For example, the rule in paragraph 1 above states a net is required on any full-bodied car..." So I guess trucks don't count? Obviously they do. But somebody with a truck might make that argument one day.
I would still contend that roll-cage = net even on a 15 second car because you have elevated the chassis to the level of a roll cage so you have the net also. Same as I said about seat belts. Once you elevate the car to the level of aftermarket SFI belts (even on a 15 second car), you buy into recert or replacement every two years.
I'd be willing to bet that if I asked NHRA for clarification on the net issue in a slower car with a cage, the net would be mandated. But don't worry, I'm not asking!
But why would one want a cage and not a net?

[Ed Wright]

This sentence: Under window net, it says "mandatory on any full bodied car required by the rules to have a roll cage". answers the question.
And, yes I did asked about it. Why have a cage and don't want to use the net? Just prefer to not screw with it. If I want to put the car in a class where a cage is required, I have it, and the net, multi/layer fire suit, neck collar, and gloves.

[Jeff Lee]

Ed, I suppose when everybody throws the "safety" clause out there (wheelie bars, roller rocker arms, 4WDB, etc.) it's convenient when trying to get something approved. When it's not convenient towards getting something approved, it's a hassle.
I've had roll-cages with nets. I really can't understand why somebody would spend the time and money on a full cage and skimp on the $55 net and GM seat belt latch. One click and it's latched.

And to Ian Hill, I looked all over the rule book. Can't find any reference to "3/4 weld" with gusset" being adequate. Can you point the readers here to where in the rule book you are referencing? I'm no engineer, but I'm sure some stress testing would prove an incomplete weld with a gusset isn't nearly as strong as you would like to think it is. I do know this, if I was looking to buy a car and it was full of incomplete welds, I wouldn't buy the car. That in itself tells me a bunch of corners have been cut.

[rallye bob]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

This sentence: Under window net, it says "mandatory on any full bodied car required by the rules to have a roll cage". answers the question.
And, yes I did asked about it. Why have a cage and don't want to use the net? Just prefer to not screw with it. If I want to put the car in a class where a cage is required, I have it, and the net, multi/layer fire suit, neck collar, and gloves.

Ed;
Don't nets have a cert, expiration date? If so then the net that you have in case you "want to put the car in a class where a cage is required" may be out of cert. at that time..... ;-]

[Michael Kilduff]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Once you install a cage you have to follow cage rules. That means nets are required. NHRA looks at it that once your at that level of having a cage, even if it runs 15's, you have to conform to all of those safety rules.
Same as seatbelts. You can have a 15 second car with OEM belts and leave them there forever. But once you put aftermarket belts in, you have to recert or replace every two years.

Maybe the seatbelt rule is interpreted differently from division to division, but I have a P/SA that has an aftermarket belt dated 1994 in the car. The person I bought the car from went through NHRA Div 1 tech many times with these belts and so did the previous owner from about 1999 until 2007/8 or so.

I passed tech in IHRA Div 9 with the same belt in 2010, plan on taking it through tech again with that belt in 2012. I will inquire within the sanctioning bodies just to be crystal clear though before next season starts.

I would think a quality aftermarket belt and latch is about 20 times stronger and safer than a 44 year old factory original belt.