Rambler All-American

[Paul Ceasrine]

Rogue X,

Nice photo's,,,,,,

Found '3' different production number totals for the 1967 Rambler 343 cars.

Not that it matters, they're still 'Super Rare Super Americans',,,,,,,


Article '1';
'58' Rogues and '55' Model 440's,,,,,,,,,,,113 Total Production
No 220's and/or Station Wagons

No Car Breakdown

Article '2';
'40' Rogues and '18' Model 440's,,,,,,,,,,,58 Total Production
No 220's and/or Station Wagons
4-Speeds Only

Breakdown;
'10',,,,,,,, Model 440 2-Door Sedans
'8',,,,,,,,,,, Model 440 2-Door Hardtops
'33',,,,,,,,, Rogue Hardops
'7',,,,,,,,,,, Rogue (Convertibles)

Article '3';
Is all over the place,,,,,,,
Listing approximately 250 cars built.
Including Model 220's

[Paul Ceasrine]

NHRA 1967 Specification/Class Sheet

With the 343/280 HP engine;

Car Weights;
Model 220 (2-Door Sedan),,,,,,,#2898 lbs......(10.35 Wt/Hp) = B/S
Model 440 (2-Door Sedan),,,,,,,#2892 lbs......(10.32 Wt/Hp) = B/S
Model 440 (2-Door Hardtop),,,,#2951 lbs.......(10.54 Wt/Hp) = B/S
Rogue (2-Door Hardtop),,,,,,,,,,,#2971 lbs.......(10.61 Wt/Hp) = C/S

1967 NHRA Class Weight Breaks;
B/S = 9.50 - 10.59 Wt/Hp
C/S = 10.60 - 11.29 Wt/Hp

AHRA 1967 Specification/Class Sheet

With the 343/280 HP Engine

Formula-6 Stock D/S

Which was 4-Barrel Engines, with a Cubic Engine range (340 to 359)
Hydraulic Camshafts Only.

[67RogueX-code]

Paul,

You have stumbled into the "black hole" of AMC documentation.

I am not aware of anyone that has found ANY verifiable documentation regarding the production numbers from the "east" assembly-line (where the Americans were produced) for 1967. The "58" number is generally accepted by the AMC community as accurate, based on the short period of time the X-code cars were produced (January through aproximatelly May of '67).

The list that you found that shows no 220's and 7 convertibles, coincides with a list that has been debunked by the AMC community, for two reasons. First, we currently know of several (verifiable) 220 X-code cars that still exist today, and secondly, because we are fairly confident who those numbers came from.

Several years ago, a person who was very influential in the AMC-community, was basically black-balled for "borrowing" original copies of AMC (corporate) materials, fraudulantly altering that documentation, and presenting it as "new", previously undisclosed information... those exact numbers were ones that this individual claimed as being true.

[Paul Ceasrine]

Rogue-X,

Whether the information is correct or not,,,,,,throws a curve into the picture.

More of Myths, Mysteries and Misconceptions,,,,,,,

Sources;
'Standard Catalog of American Musclecars'
by John Gunnell

Krause Publications
Rambler Americans, Third Generation

American Motors Corporation
Regional Zone Office
Elmsford, New York

[Hemi Moose]

67RogueX-code, I'm just curious how many 220's does the AMC community believe that were made exactly or is it kinda like the story goes on some of the 426 Hemi cars Chrysler say they never built, but everyone knows that a few snuck out of the factory.

[67RogueX-code]

In general, we are all looking for data that can be vetted and the source validated. So far, all we have found is conflicting information on the web... and that data that does not conflict, was obviously "cut & pasted" from someone elses web data. When enough people repeat the same bogus stats, some people are prone to take it as "gospel".

In the absence of actual Corporate documentation regarding the 1967 model-year production figures for the east Kenosha assembly-line, where the "small" cars (i.e.; Americans) were built, generally the AMC community believes:

1. The 58 (total) number is probably pretty close.
2. We have currently existing (and varifiable) 2-door examples of 220's, 440's, and Rogues that are X-code cars.
3. We do NOT know of any X-code 4-door cars (which includes station wagons, which only came in 4-door models).
4. We do NOT know of any convertible X-code cars.

...and that's about what we know...

But like everyone else, we love to hear the "my Dad told me that his Uncle had a Cousin, whose barber knew someone who thought he was absolutely pretty sure that he might have remembered..."

[Hemi Moose]

67RogueX-code, it sounds like you're disagreeing with the sources that Paul supplied everyone and posted earlier in this thread, you practicaly begged him to give it up and post it so the rest of the AMC community could see it...You asked him where he got all his information from exactly, and he told you, so are you disagreeing with his sources now...Also while were at it, why don't you tell us the name of this person who allegedly borrowed documents from Rambler or AMC, so whats the real story behind this, why would he do that and doctor information.

[67RogueX-code]

I think Paul, based on his post from 05:05AM this morning, is finding the same thing the rest of us have found. There are a lot of websites quoting production figures that either:

1) Can be proven to be inaccurate (as I've illustrated, by posting pictures of a varifiable 220 X-code car, yet the documentation indicates that none were built.
2) Totally contradict each other with how many were built (how do we determine which is correct, without ACTUAL production figures with dates, counts, and VIN-ranges?).
3) Or are blantant "cut-and-pastes" from other (unverifiable) websites.

Over on "theAMCforum", we have (probably) 100 guys that spent several decades either working on the assembly-line in Kenosha or at AMC dealerships throughout the 60's and 70's. There are at least 40 guys that between them (total) own several 100 1967 Americans... several of which are the original owners. There are a handfull of members that even have actual AMC blueprints and schematics from the engine plant. And, one of the members is generally acknowledged as the official AMC historian (Tom Benvie, who has posted here with regards to his research on SS/AMX's).

None of us have ever located the official AMC documentation regarding the 1967 (East Kenosha assembly-line) production figures...

But we're always hopeful that they will (someday) turn up.

[amc67rogue]

Article '1';
'58' Rogues and '55' Model 440's,,,,,,,,,,,113 Total Production
I called factory back in 1979 and asked how many 343 americans were made in 67. A few weeks later a woman called in said and 67 there were 4000 hdtps. made and 113 had the 343. At that time I didn't know there 2 different hdtps. 440 & rogue . The only # that matches here is the 113 , nothing else matches up . I own two X codes , a fully optioned Rogue (minus headrests & rocker moldings ) the other is a 440 2 dr. post . Keith Coggins

[67RogueX-code]

Thanks Keith,

I don't remember what you told me... what kinda of times were you getting out of the 440, back when you raced it?