Original hemi dart information

[rhinodaert]

Another black and white pic.

[Stewart Way]

I know it has been on this thread more than once that the first Castaldo dart was wrecked, stripped and crushed but I was looking at a magazine article titled "Not just another pretty face" by Cliff Gromer on Frank Spittles dart and the article says"A very original piece, the dart had suffered a crash early in its career, but had been repaired with the correct fiberglass body panels that were still available from the factory at the time. After it was fixed, the Dart was socked away in storage and never raced again. Goes on to say Frank bought the car in 86. Cant tell you what magazine the article was in because the pages are loose but it does say they also did an article 12/89 featuring a Hemi Dart originally owned by Charlie Castaldo. That would make one think both his cars are still around.
But, like the internet, just because you read it doesn't mean its true.
Sorry if this has already been discussed but I don't remember it.

I just reread the article and nowhere does it say Franks car was ever one of Charlies. Its late. Guess I better go to bed.

[Liteweight]

Castaldo's stick car



Charlie's auto

[mopar68]

Originally Posted by Stewart Way

But, like the internet, just because you read it doesn't mean its true.

I can say that about the mass media and what they broadcast on TV and radio and print in newspapers and magazines even more so.

M68

[Liteweight]

Originally Posted by Charlie A

Any possibility there was a twin(not a tribute) Wildfire Dart? (or any other that might be yours)

Overbooked pros used duplicate painted cars with other drivers from time to time.

There was only one Ronnie Sox but there were several "Sox&Martin" cars on the tracks.

Just wondering.

Charlie
Possible, but not likely. As J Schiels has previously posted Tim & Bob were a small race team with very little backing.They were mechanics in the Town & Country Dodge dealership. When I spoke with Tim, he didn't mention a second car.
A second car probably isn't likely

liteweight

[JCShiels]

Originally Posted by Liteweight

Charlie
Possible, but not likely. As J Schiels has previously posted Tim & Bob were a small race team with very little backing.They were mechanics in the Town & Country Dodge dealership. When I spoke with Tim, he didn't mention a second car.
A second car probably isn't likely

liteweight

There was no second car, no possible way.

[Liteweight]

Something that everyone, including myself is assuming on this thing is that the red & silver that was on it previous to being chemically stripped in 1985 is the same paint that was applied in the 68-70 time frame. We've all been comparing pictures from that era.
Now, remember these were race cars, not show cars. They got beat on. They changed owners many times. What's the chance of this car having the same paint on it in 1985 that it had in 1968?? It's possible, but not likely. Specially since there were wheel well mods that were done to it sometime in the 70's. I am convinced tho, it was silver & red when Vignonia's owned it because of the head count that remember it that way.
Super Stock kinda took a dive in the 70's, & as such there just aren't alot of pictures from that era. Alot of these cars just weren't competitive & they became yesterday's headlines. My car in particular went to bracket racing, so the chance of finding a picture of it in the 70's is probably pretty slim.
I think where I need to concentrate on is locating the owner who had it when it was bracket raced in the mid to late 70's. I gotta find info specifically about the 1977 NED Bracket Nationals. I have contacted the NHRA Guru, Bob Frey to do some digging on this, & am waiting his reply. Anybody reading this have some info they can help me with?. There was a brochure for that event, but I haven't been able to source one yet. I'm thinking there might be a name attached to a 68 Dart that would have been in print.
The other way of doing it is to weed out all the cars that are known/ documented to exist today & start searching for the unknowns. This way would be very difficult tho, as each car would have to be individually sourced. And if Mark Janaky, with all his contacts & vast experience hasn't been able to do it, I probably won't be able to either.
But, anyway here is a list of original Hemi Darts that the whereabouts are not known

Mary Ann Foss ( Go Hummer) OH
Manhatten Speed Shop
Joe Patel (MA)
Bob Banning (VA) stick car ??
Ken Bradley (TX) Second THT car. stick??
Johnny Rivers (MN)
Cookie Duster stick car?
Robert Alton/Tim Wing Dart (MI) WildFire
Tom Spanbauer Dart (WI) (went to CA in about 1970)
Atlantic Dodge (CA)
Colonial Dodge (MI)
Bob Banning Dodge (MD)
Denny Kilbane (OH) (may still be in OH)
Dave Price (CA) (Butch Leal)
Grand Island Dodge (NE)
Cicero Dodge (NY)
The above is from a list of the first 50 cars, & since mine is in that build frame, it'll be in there somewhere. There could also be a couple others due to lack of documentation & hear say, but these are pretty much concrete as of 06.
If anyone can help in ID'ing these, MAN, WOULD I APPRECIATE IT.

liteweight

[Hemi Moose]

Originally Posted by Liteweight

Something that everyone, including myself is assuming on this thing is that the red & silver that was on it previous to being chemically stripped in 1985 is the same paint that was applied in the 68-70 time frame. We've all been comparing pictures from that era.
Now, remember these were race cars, not show cars. They got beat on. They changed owners many times. What's the chance of this car having the same paint on it in 1985 that it had in 1968?? It's possible, but not likely. Specially since there were wheel well mods that were done to it sometime in the 70's. I am convinced tho, it was silver & red when Vignonia's owned it because of the head count that remember it that way.
Super Stock kinda took a dive in the 70's, & as such there just aren't alot of pictures from that era. Alot of these cars just weren't competitive & they became yesterday's headlines. My car in particular went to bracket racing, so the chance of finding a picture of it in the 70's is probably pretty slim.
I think where I need to concentrate on is locating the owner who had it when it was bracket raced in the mid to late 70's. I gotta find info specifically about the 1977 NED Bracket Nationals. I have contacted the NHRA Guru, Bob Frey to do some digging on this, & am waiting his reply. Anybody reading this have some info they can help me with?. There was a brochure for that event, but I haven't been able to source one yet. I'm thinking there might be a name attached to a 68 Dart that would have been in print.
The other way of doing it is to weed out all the cars that are known/ documented to exist today & start searching for the unknowns. This way would be very difficult tho, as each car would have to be individually sourced. And if Mark Janaky, with all his contacts & vast experience hasn't been able to do it, I probably won't be able to either.
But, anyway here is a list of original Hemi Darts that the whereabouts are not known

Mary Ann Foss ( Go Hummer) OH
Manhatten Speed Shop
Joe Patel (MA)
Bob Banning (VA) stick car ??
Ken Bradley (TX) Second THT car. stick??
Johnny Rivers (MN)
Cookie Duster stick car?
Robert Alton/Tim Wing Dart (MI) WildFire
Tom Spanbauer Dart (WI) (went to CA in about 1970)
Atlantic Dodge (CA)
Colonial Dodge (MI)
Bob Banning Dodge (MD)
Denny Kilbane (OH) (may still be in OH)
Dave Price (CA) (Butch Leal)
Grand Island Dodge (NE)
Cicero Dodge (NY)
The above is from a list of the first 50 cars, & since mine is in that build frame, it'll be in there somewhere. There could also be a couple others due to lack of documentation & hear say, but these are pretty much concrete as of 06.
If anyone can help in ID'ing these, MAN, WOULD I APPRECIATE IT.

liteweight

Judging by the first restoration attempt done to this '68 Hemi Dart where they chemically stripped the paint off the car (as seen in the previous photos) this tells me that there was "layers of paint" on this car already!!!

Next, in that list of unaccounted L023's have you even checked to see which one Al Kirschenbaum owned because he had a brand new one in '68 but didn't own it for very long...maybe Bob Frey knows him.

[jimi]

Originally Posted by Hemi Moose

Judging by the first restoration attempt done to this '68 Hemi Dart where they chemically stripped the paint off the car (as seen in the previous photos) this tells me that there was "layers of paint" on this car already!!!

Next, in that list of unaccounted L023's have you even checked to see which one Al Kirschenbaum owned because he had a brand new one in '68 but didn't own it for very long...maybe Bob Frey knows him.

Kirschenbaum was from Long Island? And he has a brother as well if I remember correctly. Don't they have a very large collection of mopar parts and s

[Hemi Moose]

Originally Posted by jimi

Kirschenbaum was from Long Island? And he has a brother as well if I remember correctly. Don't they have a very large collection of mopar parts and s

Jimi, Al Kirschenbaum wrote articles & road tests for various magazines back in the day...and I believe I read the story that the L023 ended up being the Speedwin Hemi Dart now that my memory has kicked in.

On another note, you seem to keep bringing up the Charlie Castaldo '68 Hemi Dart that you saw in your dads shop back then, and I don't disagree with what you saw back then, but I do have few questions if you don't mind...do you remember what year this was roughly, and it was more that likely Charlie's second Hemi Dart, the one he bought off of Tom Crutchfield...you have said in some previous posts that the floor was cut out for access to the 4 speed...also do you recall if this car also had radiused wheel wells, that were normally larger that the factory Hemi Darts came with because it sure sounds like it was Charlies second car that you saw back then...unless you can remember any other details about it?

.