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Old 01-23-2015, 01:11 AM   #1
oldskool
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

OK, I'll do some diggin and come up with several combos that will put me in K/SA. The weight break for it is 13.00 lbs/hp, and the index is 12.65.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

Well, if I use the '72 455 we've discussed, I'll need one of the "Tons a Fun" Lemans wagons. Hey, I can live with that.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2068

Next, I could run a '73 250hp 455. I could run farther under with a Bird, since the hp factor for 'em is 306. But, to make K with that engine I can use a Luxury Lemans, a GTO, or a GP. Hey, you can race just about anything with wheels on it. But I don't like the looks of the rear of the '73 Lemans and GTO. I'd much prefer the look of the GP.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2079

The '74 250hp 455 is almost identical to the '73--same heads. So to make K with it I'd need a Grand Am or a GP. Once again, I'd prefer a GP.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2092

I'd really prefer to run a 455 combo, because of it's low end torque, and lower operating rpm. But I'll go ahead and check out some options with smaller engines. I'll start with the 400. Most of the earlier years have an NHRA factor that is equal to or higher than the 455's. But some of the later model, low comp 400's have a decent factor.

The best one I see is the '77, with a 260hp factor, in anything except a Bird. All the big cars were downsized that year. So I could make K with Cats, Bonnies, 2-door Lemans models, and a Can Am. Of these, I'd much rather run the Can Am. But that's now sort of a high dollar collector car. So, one of the others would have to do. I'm thinkin that if you can find a good clean one, that one of the Cats or Bonnies would be the cheapest. And would probably look a bit better too.(at least to me)

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=764

I just checked out the 350 engines. To me, they are factored too close to the 400 factors, and give up 50 cubes. So I would not try to run a 350.

OK, to summarize this post, for K/SA, as of right now, I'd prefer to run a 455 in either '72, '73 'or '74. The '72 would be in a Lemans wagon. Both the '73 and '74 would be in a Grand Prix. But, I haven't seen any GP's racing. There may be a good reason--don't know yet.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:38 AM   #2
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

Hey Brent, I was busy gathering info for my last post and just saw your post. Them old wagons are cool.

I don't know who's idea it was to make the GTO front available on a wagon, but I think it was a great idea !
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Last edited by oldskool; 01-23-2015 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

Actually, I dug up a few pics of racin GP's. As I'm sure most know, the GP's got their distinctive new, long nose--short deck body style in '69. They had lots of changes after that, but retained the basic design from '69-'77.

Here's the pics I Googled up.
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Old 01-23-2015, 08:35 AM   #4
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

Clegg raced a '73 SD 455 Grand Prix for a while. Cool car.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland View Post

Clegg raced a '73 SD 455 Grand Prix for a while. Cool car.
I couldn't find any pics of the Clegg GP. But on the Clegg site I found some pics that bring up a couple of questions. This '74 SS Bird has the TA shaker hood, fenders and rear spoiler, but no wheel flares. I've seen pics of a '73 SD Formula that had only the TA shaker hood. But I haven't seen any pics of a '74 TA without the wheel flares.

So, my question is: can you race a TA without the wheel flares in stock ? SS ?

Also, do you have to run the full shaker set-up, or can you attach the shaker to the hood and run a big filter ? Or ? In other words, what is the best set-up for racing with a shaker ? I've seen lots of TA's racing. Just never saw their shaker set-up.
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Last edited by oldskool; 01-23-2015 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 01-23-2015, 01:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwight Southerland View Post

Clegg raced a '73 SD 455 Grand Prix for a while. Cool car.

This sorta sparked my interest. I never knew that the 455SD came in a GP, or anything except Birds. But NHRA allows them in Lemans, GTO, Grand Am, & GP. So, what's the deal ? Did any 455SD's actually come in these other cars ?

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2080

I remember when a mag named the '73 GTO car of the year, when it was announced that it could come with the 455SD.
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Old 01-23-2015, 04:35 PM   #7
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

Can't attach the shaker scoop to the hood.
It has to attach to the engine...even with no filter assy.
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Old 01-23-2015, 05:01 PM   #8
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

OK, I have another question. According to this NHRA spec sheet on the '79 W72 220hp 400 engine, this engine only came with a manual trans. This is also what I've always read.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=792

However, tho this page says "Notes: Class Limits--Available with Manual transmission only", it also lists the hp factor for an auto trans at 270 for Stock, and 285 for SS/auto. So, does that mean you can or can't run a '79 Bird with a 400 and auto trans ?

It seems that if engines are legal in bodies they never actually came in, then it should be OK to run an auto behind an engine that came only with a stick. They say the '77 W72 400 is legal with an auto, only in a Can Am.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=765

So if an auto is not legal in the '79, then do you guys think it would do any good to put in a request(or whatever the process is) to get an auto approved for a '79 220hp 400 Bird ? Maybe nobody has ever tried it. If not, would some of you guys who have a little clout with NHRA, please make a proper request for this ?

It seems to me to be a sensible and reasonable request, considering that they will allow almost any auto, besides what came in your car, stall converters, aftermarket blocks, forged pistons & rods, different rear ends, alum heads for some engines, etc, etc, etc.

Some might say, why bother ? Because there were more '79 Birds built than any other year model. Therefore there are more of 'em for sale than any other year, which, on average, will make 'em cheaper to buy. Hey, even if I never race one, it might help somebody else down the line.

If they are already legal and it is just not reflected on this spec sheet, then somebody please tell me where to find that info. Thanks !
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Last edited by oldskool; 01-23-2015 at 07:08 PM.
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Old 01-23-2015, 06:55 PM   #9
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

I'm no expert on NHRA's rules by any means, but if it in fact only came with a manual trans, then I'm pretty certain you can only run it a s a manual. Otherwise, I would build a 1993 Ford Cobra, (came with manual only), with an automatic. Now whether or not the '79/400 Bird came with an automatic or not, I have no idea. But I do know I had a brand new '79 Bandit Edition in '79 that was an automatic, but it was a 403 Olds engine.
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Old 01-23-2015, 09:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldskool View Post
Hey Brent, I was busy gathering info for my last post and just saw your post. Them old wagons are cool.

I don't know who's idea it was to make the GTO front available on a wagon, but I think it was a great idea !
I would have to agree... they are cool cars, either way... Im itchin to throw the stuff in mine to make it a legal Stocker, since i have everything...just need bigger rear axle..that 8.2 wouldnt last long...
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