Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

[Rat Patrol]

Originally Posted by georgep3689

Hello,
I am researching a story from late 1964 about Haydon Proffitt shipping 2 Plymouth s/sers lightweight cars to Australia in nov. 1964. One was a 1963 tan plymouth and the other a blue 1964 savoy 4 speed with the aluminum fornt end. Any thoughts?

Thanks

George

Hi George - the car is well known down under..although in one of our more remote cities.

The owner is a member on here...best you pm him...

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=46857

[Rat Patrol]

.......

[Rat Patrol]

Hi members

1966 has now been published - enjoy the read.

Use the menu at the top of the page to move from year to year.

Click on the highlighted names in the results table for larger pics.

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpre...-for-the-fans/

[oldskool]

Been lookin back thru some of the threads in the nostalgia section.

I suppose that any undertaking of this size will likely produce a few mistakes.

Me being a Pontiac guy, I always look for references to the Pontiacs.

So, I discovered a couple of obvious mistakes.

(1) It is posted that the '66 GTO had a 400 cube engine. All Pontiac guys know that the 400 was not introduced until the '67 models. '66 was the last year for the 389.

"...PONTIAC – The 66 GTO came with a new 400 cui motor..."

(2) It is posted that the '58 Pontiac named Tokyo Rose won Stock at the '67 World Finals. But, the pic shown is of a '56 Chevy wagon with that name, which was driven by race winner George Cureton. Pics of the '58 Pontiac Tokyo Rose are below. I assume the mistake was made simply because the 2 cars had the same name.

I realize that VERY few people care about this. But, it's been my experience that usually when incorrect info is posted, on most car forums, some are QUICK to post corrections. So, all I'm doing is just posting corrections to a couple of mistakes I noticed.

[Rat Patrol]

1967 published.

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpress.com/1967-2/

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Rat Patrol

1967 published.

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpress.com/1967-2/

I hope others who were there (my only Sting-Ray in 1967 was a bicycle) will chime in with some edits & comments.


Super! Glad you put in the factoring stuff.
The 427 Medium Riser / Side Oiler is kinda complicated though (4bbl vs 8bbl, cold air vs flat hood, etc) so:

"The Ford 427 side oiler was re-factored to 460HP."

You could just say
"The Ford 427 dual quad side oiler was re-factored to about 460HP"

I added "about" because back then NHRA didnt publish a HP number, they just gave the Lb/HP for each body style, then you use the weight tables from today, hope they're the same, and back-calculate the HP that NHRA was factoring in 1967. So it's "about" 460 but not an exact science in this case.

I'm just starting to read!
Another great year of history.

Further down:
"67 Lightweight 427 Fairlane ran in SS/C, a class slower than the 66 cars."

Near as I can figure from lots of discussions, the glass hood 427-8v Fairlanes (66-67 basically twin cars) ran in SS/B=7.00 class.
That made sense, because all the glass hood cars had a 427-8v under the hood. But the glass hood cars were all 1966 cars. No flat hoods in 1966, and no glass (scoop) hoods in 1967. NHRA finally figured out some rules & let the 66-67 Fairlanes all run the same rules, considering them "twin: cars. And of course for the best Factory Support (MONEY), it was best to run the current-year car ie the 1967 Fairlane in the 1967 race year.

So where did those SS/C=7.70 glass hood Fairlanes come from?

Best I can figure they were 427-4v Fairlanes, WITH the glass hood (a combo that never left the factory, sort of like the glass hood 415hp low-compression Max Wedge). These SS/C=7.70 427-4v Fairlanes would have run SS/D=7.70 in 1968 but the combo disappeared from the NHRA books. I guess they just ran too good.

The 427 Fairlane story is a convoluted one indeed.

Continuing to race results:
Winter:
IIRC the 60 Pontiac G/SA Douglas & Forys was a 389/318-6v wagon, fits class almost exactly. Those tripower Pontiacs weren't all GTOs!

[DeuceCoupe]

(More comments!)

Continuing to race results:
Winter:
IIRC the 60 Pontiac G/SA Douglas & Forys was a 389/318-6v wagon, fits class almost exactly. Those tripower Pontiacs weren't all GTOs!

I have down that Cossey won A/S but will check again. Yup, my sheet is clearly showing Cossey, 12.35 at 113.92. OK I read the notes down below. Great story!

SPRING
IIRC the 62 421 SuperDuty was “rated” at 405hp. (As If). And never factored., as with so many 50s & early 60s engines.

INDY
Amazingly, the 396/375hp L78 was still running unfactored at 375hp that year. Near as I can Gonkulate, the L78 left the factory making about 415 gross hp in the Camaro/Chevelle, vs maybe 435hp in the Vette/Impala when it first came out in 1965 “rated” at 425hp. I think it was a little unfair of NHRA to factor the L78 up to 425hp in 1968 but I bet that 1965 big-car rating with the better exhaust iron was their basis.

NOTES:
Ed Terry’s car in the picture is a little dark but does look like a 66 from the trim – the text says both 66 and 67. Maybe somebody knows for sure. The 66 & 67 Fairlanes were twins except for trim, grille, taillights, etc.

Jenkins – SS/C win should be Spring not Winter?

Garey should be a 66 Olds W30, in SS/E=9.50 (Kempton won SS/EA). The 66 or 67 W30 would also run in B/S=9.50. However, per (Boyce, pg47) NHRA wouldn’t let the 66 W30 run in stock class after learning that so few were made (54 total) and all went to racers, none sold to normal people. Ok, well, that didn’t come out right. I’m not sure just when the 66 W30 got banished from stock class though since it’s still listed as a record holder in Sept 1967 B/S=9.50 class. Maybe NHRA let the record stand but the 66 W30 could only run in SS/E=9.50 after that.

BTW, curious why you’d say that “on paper” the 66 W30 would take a back seat to the 67 GTX? Both cars are near identical Lb/HP, the 66 W30 at W/P=9.59 and the 67 GTX at W/P=9.61, plus the W30 had cold air (OAI). I’d say on paper, I’d give the win to the W30. Of course, as time went by, the 440 got a lot more SuperStock parts (intakes & cams) so the W30 SuperStock wins became more rare.

Yes, as already noted, should say the 67 GTO came with a new 400, not 66 GTO. Also same comment, the GTO ran in SS/E=9.50 or B/S=9.50, not E/S.

“The 66 GTO came with a new 400cui motor and like the Olds, appeared outgunned in SS /E or E/Stock. Pontiac had less success in class or eliminations…”

I had GUESSED that Sargi won B/SA=9.50 with a 67 GTO but the sheet just says “Pontiac”, not very informative. The only other likely winner would be a 61 SuperDuty 389/368hp. Does anybody know?

Also, again I’m not sure why the 67 RamAir1 would look outclassed – when I Gonkulate the B/SA=9.50 class for 1967, the RamAir1 comes out very competitive with the other contenders – W30, 427 LTD, Fury 383/343, a super competitive class. Seems Wt/HP=9.50 was sort of the “Muscle Car” class back then.

“however a 58 , a 60 and a 62 model still featured in Stock class finals.”

Do you know what cars/classes those 58, 60, 62 Pontiacs won? I’m still guessing parts of 67 Winter because the sheets don’t give the car year!

NOTES: FORD:
The 66-67 Fairlanes were doggone near identical cars in weight – only taillights, headlights, side trim differed.
Classes were determined by the engine and the cold air hood.
SS/B=7.00 ran the cold air 427/425-8v engine, factored to about 460-465hp by NHRA.
SS/C=7.70 ran the cold air 427/410-4v engine, factored to about 435hp by NHRA. That combo disappeared for 1968 – none were built that way anyway.

That’s my CURRENT understanding of the Fairlane 427 saga.

MOPAR:
I didn’t know AA/S=7.00 class returned for 1967! What were the rules? Could you still run any intake, any cam as in 1965-66? I don’t see AA/S listed in any of the win or record sheets for 1967?


All in all a great read, thanks very much for writing this stuff up. I hope some of the folks who were there read it & we can get the history down. It will never be repeated!

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Rat Patrol

1967 published.

https://skunkwerkssuperstock.wordpress.com/1967-2/

Yeah, that's where I copied this statement.

"...PONTIAC – The 66 GTO came with a new 400cui..."

I assume the "66" was supposed to be 67.

There were a few '66 & '67 GTO's that did pretty good.

The Knafel '66 "Trophy Car" apparently won a few. But most of those were probably in 1966. And the "Limelighter" '67 held the D/S class record in '68. But, that would obviously not be included in a '67 year recap. So, these 2 cars missed the target year 1967. But, although the Mopar, Chevy, & Ford cars dominated drag racing back then, there were always a few Pontiacs that did pretty good. But the best drivers went with teams that had factory support. The quickest Pontiacs sometimes had mostly just dealer support, such as Knafel Pontiac, Royal Pontiac, & a few others.

[oldskool]

" 1968 – Battle of the sandbaggers! "

I have to laugh at this headline !

Not much has changed. For the quick cars, if they ran all-out, every pass, their combo would soon have such a huge hp factor that it would not be competitive, in any heads-up run.

Back then, the only difference was that they were running against their class record, rather than the class index.

So, as much as Stock/SS racers hate to hear it, for legal cars, most Stock/SS racing uses bracket racing rules. The same-class heads-up runs are the exception. Just out of curiosity, I'd like to know the average percentage of total elimination runs which are heads-up, for class racers that run a full schedule.

Obviously, anyone in a stick class won't often have a heads-up. But, there are some of the quicker auto trans classes that have several entries, at some big races. I've read posts by LOTS of racers saying that the ONLY reason they run class instead of bracket is for the rare heads-up runs. Without those runs, many say they'd either go bracket racing or quit racing.

Then I suppose there are a few who race Stock, with a slow car that will barely run it's index, just because they have a good chance to beat any of the quick high dollar cars, at most any race.

So, just from my observation, the Stock racers are a very diverse group, having members with differing opinions & goals. Many are content with old-school carb equipped cars. But some insist on goin quick, with the latest, greatest FS cars. Then there are some who are always lookin the softest combo they can find, which they can live with.