Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68

[Rat Patrol]

They got the car down to high 11s with slicks.

Main thing is, they confirm SS/B with R code, SS/C with W Code

Mag is dated Sept 67.

[oldskool]

Since I'm always lookin for the Pontiacs, I couldn't help but notice that the new RAIV powered Pontiacs won D/S & D/SA.

Rod Kister had won the Stock points championship in '68, with his big '60 Pontiac rec holder, also named "Big Iron". Then the '69 Judge was followed by a '70 Judge Big Iron.

Not familiar with the other driver's name.

John Thropp ran at least 2 different '57 Pontiac bodies.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by oldskool

Since I'm always lookin for the Pontiacs, I couldn't help but notice that the new RAIV powered Pontiacs won D/S & D/SA.

Rod Kister had won the Stock points championship in '68, with his big '60 Pontiac rec holder, also named "Big Iron". Then the '69 Judge was followed by a '70 Judge Big Iron.

Not familiar with the other driver's name.

John Thropp ran at least 2 different '57 Pontiac bodies.

In learning this the Kister Big Iron story is another I've tried to follow.
His 1960 389/363hp Super Duty car, followed by a 400/370hp (factored to 380hp) RamAir4 69 GTO, and then a "base" 400/350hp 70 GTO, all with national wins/records.

Kister was runner-up in D/S=9.00 class here at 69 Indy. The narrative I have says Robertson won D/S, but in a 69 Buick and no Buick will fit that class. So I guessed Robertson ran either a RamAir4 or a Z28.

Then from this picture out of Petersen, found with the help of another Class Racer, I concluded this was probably the D/S race where probably Robertson in the Z28 won against runner-up Kister in the 69 RamAir4

https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=320033

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by DeuceCoupe

In learning this the Kister Big Iron story is another I've tried to follow.
His 1960 389/363hp Super Duty car, followed by a 400/370hp (factored to 380hp) RamAir4 69 GTO, and then a "base" 400/350hp 70 GTO, all with national wins/records.

Kister was runner-up in D/S=9.00 class here at 69 Indy. The narrative I have says Robertson won D/S, but in a 69 Buick and no Buick will fit that class. So I guessed Robertson ran either a RamAir4 or a Z28.

Then from this picture out of Petersen, found with the help of another Class Racer, I concluded this was probably the D/S race where probably Robertson in the Z28 won against runner-up Kister in the 69 RamAir4

https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=320033

OK, I think I finally see what you're doin.

You listed 3 POSSIBLE D/S driver/car combo winners, since you were not SURE who, or which combo, won.

I only looked for the blue color to check out the Pontiacs. Never even noticed there were more than one D/S listed.

NOW, do you have any more info on the single D/SA driver you have listed, "b bunker" ?

That name does not ring a bell, for me. I have pics of lots of '69 GTO's. I don't know the names of the driver, or drivers, of all of 'em. If the guy's name was Bill or Billy, I suppose the "Billy's Goat" car I have a pic of could be the car. But it's a long shot.

Would like to know more about that reference to Peterson. How do you look up drag car pics there ?

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by oldskool

OK, I think I finally see what you're doin.

You listed 3 POSSIBLE D/S driver/car combo winners, since you were not SURE who, or which combo, won.

I only looked for the blue color to check out the Pontiacs. Never even noticed there were more than one D/S listed.

NOW, do you have any more info on the single D/SA driver you have listed, "b bunker" ?

That name does not ring a bell, for me. I have pics of lots of '69 GTO's. I don't know the names of the driver, or drivers, of all of 'em. If the guy's name was Bill or Billy, I suppose the "Billy's Goat" car I have a pic of could be the car. But it's a long shot.

Would like to know more about that reference to Peterson. How do you look up drag car pics there ?

Exactly!
I'll just make some guesses when I dont know.

All I have on b bunker D/SA is:

bill bunker, N Miami FL

Oh man you will enjoy all those pictures!
On Petersen: Here's how to look them up.

Single picture if known:
https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=940202


General Search for a Meet: Start eg here:
https://archive.petersen.org/pages/home.php

Then click the1960s box. (Doing that will take you here):
https://archive.petersen.org/pages/s...=&k=&restypes=

Then type:
“1969 nhra springnationals”
Into the search box. (without the quotes)
16 pages of cars comes up, all PROBABLY from that meet.

you can search stuff like 1964 winternationals, 1965 US nationals, etc.
Not all the meets are in there, but a lot of them are.

[Rat Patrol]

DC - Couple of possibke amendments for your 69 list.

1 - ‘Ben’ Wolfe’ - B/SA SpringNats - Try this guy

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...69-pontiac-gto

2 - Re Tom Schumacher, B/Stock Indy - Just a factoid.....The car he beat was his old Fairlane Hardtop W Code. The driver, was not only the guy he sold it to, but Tom had borrowed this guys steel hood off his street car at the. springNats when tech disallowed his glass hood! Small world!

I have asked Ronnie Crawford to try and find out his name - Ronnie crewed for Tom.

3 - I cannot find A NY reference to a P Scalla on the net...most frustrating!

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Rat Patrol

DC - Couple of possibke amendments for your 69 list.

1 - ‘Ben’ Wolfe’ - B/SA SpringNats - Try this guy

https://www.motortrend.com/features/...69-pontiac-gto

2 - Re Tom Schumacher, B/Stock Indy - Just a factoid.....The car he beat was his old Fairlane Hardtop W Code. The driver, was not only the guy he sold it to, but Tom had borrowed this guys steel hood off his street car at the. springNats when tech disallowed his glass hood! Small world!

I have asked Ronnie Crawford to try and find out his name - Ronnie crewed for Tom.

3 - I cannot find A NY reference to a P Scalla on the net...most frustrating!

Good find!
It doesnt SEEM like a fit, since the RA4 was factored at 380hp, so
3500/380=9.21 which would run in D/SA=9.00 class.

But as I look, the ONLY wins I have for the RA4 are in 1970, not 1969.
Maybe the RA4 was factored to say 425hp in 1969, and then since wins were rare & it was factored SO high, it was the 1st of several engines to get factored back DOWN.

This makes some sense, because the RA4 Gonkulates at 424hp, and I've tried everything I can to get it lower - that doggone RA4 just wants to make power.

Well I will put that in as a strawman then, it's sure hard to argue with given the name Ben Wolf is right there on the sheet. 69 could easily be misread as 61 so that makes some sense too.

Awesome, another RA4 win, and 2 classes up from where it ran in 1970.

On Scalla, try Scalia maybe? Like the Supreme Court judge?

EDIT 27 Sept:
Well now I'm not so sure of the whole RA4 factored to 425hp then downfactored to 380hp thing:

1. The Motor Trend article guys are Wilson "Sonny" Wolfe Jr and Wilson Wolfe III - I'm not seeing a Ben Wolfe.
2. Per below, the Ben Wolf that won SPring 69 B/SA=8.00 class is likely Ben Wolf of Wolf & McClelland, I think oldskool nailed that one.
3. Most disturbing, I just realized that Indy 69 D/SA=9.00 class was won by a 69 Pontiac. We dont know for SURE that the Bunker Pontiac is a GTO RA4, but a RA3 at 3500/366=9.56 would run in E/SA=9.50 class.
And a RA4 at the good old 380 hp Factor fits D/SA=9.00
3500/380=9.21
Then again, if Bunker was a 69 Firebird RA3, then
3318/366=9.07 is a great fit.
Seems the only "Big" Pontiac in D/SA=9.00 would be the good old 62 Cat Superduty, but that's a 62 not a 69.

SO: As of Sep 1969 it LOOKS like the RA4 was factored at 380hp, just like in 1970. Unless it got de-factored between June and September 1969 (possible I guess but not likely) then the Indy 69 B/SA=8.00 car CANNOT be a RA4 GTO. Unless Bunker's D/SA=9.00 "Pontiac" was a Firebird RA3, then that re-opens the possibility that the RA4 was factored at 425hp for all of 1969.

But, Ben Wolf seems unrelated to Wilson "Sonny" Wolfe and his 69 RA4 GTO, so there's no evidence other than a way-over-factored fit that Ben Wolf's B/SA=8.00 winner was a 69 RA4 GTO. But if not, then what was it?
A Firebird RA4 factored to 400hp? (Then down to 380hp for 1970?)
Could be. Or not.

Back to Square 1?

[Rat Patrol]

Originally Posted by DeuceCoupe

In learning this the Kister Big Iron story is another I've tried to follow.
His 1960 389/363hp Super Duty car, followed by a 400/370hp (factored to 380hp) RamAir4 69 GTO, and then a "base" 400/350hp 70 GTO, all with national wins/records.

Kister was runner-up in D/S=9.00 class here at 69 Indy. The narrative I have says Robertson won D/S, but in a 69 Buick and no Buick will fit that class. So I guessed Robertson ran either a RamAir4 or a Z28.

Then from this picture out of Petersen, found with the help of another Class Racer, I concluded this was probably the D/S race where probably Robertson in the Z28 won against runner-up Kister in the 69 RamAir4

https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=320033

DC - Your 69 Indy list has a Z28 winning E/Stock (Durbin)....so not sure how one could also win D/Stock?

Sorry if that sends you back to the drawing board....

[Rat Patrol]

Davisson won D/SA atthe 69 winters in a 62 Pontiac

McClelland ran the 383cui/333hp Tempest 4V motor in D/Stock Auto
Max Sterling ran the same combo in D/Stock

....both at 69 SpringNats

What combo would Wolf have run in B/SA at the 69 SpringNats? I’m guessing it was the 68 A/SA Springnats car - which was a 421/405 , like the pic Old School posted.

[DeuceCoupe]

Originally Posted by Rat Patrol

Davisson won D/SA atthe 69 winters in a 62 Pontiac

McClelland ran the 383cui/333hp Tempest 4V motor in D/Stock Auto
Max Sterling ran the same combo in D/Stock

....both at 69 SpringNats

What combo would Wolf have run in B/SA at the 69 SpringNats? I’m guessing it was the 68 A/SA Springnats car - which was a 421/405 , like the pic Old School posted.

OK wait:
I have Davisson winning 69 Winter D/S=9.00 in a 62 Cat 421SD.

McClelland in 69 Spring D/SA=9.00, also 62 Cat 421SD
Sterling in 69 Spring D/S=9.00, again 62 Cat 421SD

The 61 Cat/Ventura 389/333hp has a W/P of just over 11, which would run way down in H/SA=11.00 class in 1969.

The Wolf car 69 Spring B/SA=8.00 could not be a 62 Cat 421SD - those cars are just too heavy.
The lightest aluminum 62 421 SuperDuty Cat I see is the aluminum front 2-door sedan at
3609/405=8.91 which would run in C/SA=8.50 but a bad fit.
The big 421SD always ran at W/P=9.01 from 1968-up which would be D/S=9.00 or D/SA=9.00 in 1969.

A 63 Swiss Cheese Cat could run up in B/SA=8.00 but those were never stock legal - not enough made.