Ladder Bar Car: Trans Brake or Foot Brake?

[Dave Goob Cook]

Originally Posted by trmnatr

Why is everybody going to radials?

How do they hook when leaving at 5,000rpm-5,500rpm with a transbrake?

They are fast, stable to drive on, don't leak air ever, true tubeless, sidewalls last better, no growth, slim section width profile, no need for rim screws,...etc.

They work fine on my ride, Stock legal rear suspension, 3400-3600 two-step and 5250 stall coming off. Only 3250 lbs. or so, but 1.37 to 1.40's anywhere, anytime. Oh yeah, Atlas non-gas charged replacement shocks on the rear, and Stocker Stars on the front.

I like Goodyears, but that is for the compound selections, a Hoosier may be faster for some, on some tracks, but I bracket race.

[rod butcher]

Listen to Tom a set of double adjustable Afco's and if using coilovers I like to use a little stiffer spring on my car but I have my shocks mounted in front of rear. Trans or footbrake is drivers choice. They both are fast with the right set-up.
rod

[Bill Rolik]

Rod,

Input much appreciated!

Thanks,

Bill Rolik

[Mike Pearson]

Bill,

I have an older super stock camaro. I have a coil over/ladder bar setup in my car. I also leave on a trans brake. With a good 350 running SS/HA I ran 9.92 with 1.28 60 ft times. I now have a 327 in the car. it does not leave quite as hard. The car is very consistent. I do run a radial tire. I use the M/T 12.2x31.25 radial tire. I have had good luck with this tire. Hooks good and is much faster than the Hoosier bias ply tire that I ran prior to the radial. I back to backed the two tires and the radial was .013 quicker on several tests. I would recomend the radial tire. You will have to experiment with tire pressure to find the sweet spot for your car. Start at about 12 lbs. and work up from there. I have a single adjustable shock in the rear and double adjustables up front. I am happy with this setup. If you have leaf springs under your car now and change to coil overs make sure you install some good quality heim joints in the front of your ladder bars. The front heim is the only connection point to the frame. If this heim fails the rear end will move forward or backward and cause heavy body damage. Also you should instal a retention device at the front of the ladder bar around the heim to keep the rear end in place in the event of a failure. Most of the older cars do not have this. I had to retro fit my car after I converted from leaf springs to coil overs.
Good luck with your project

[Bill Rolik]

Mike,

Thanks much for the input, and impressive numbers!

I would think that the 327 would react exactly as you have said, given the shorter stroke which would produce less low end torque. The 340 Mopar is actually closer to a 327 in that regard than a 350, and with a longer and heavier rod.

Both my Duster previously, and the Cuda looking forward, utilized the Comp Engineering Ladder Link with retention loops and a housing slider. In those "thrilling days of yesteryear", a slight right-side preload added became basically a set-it-and-forget-it. Rear leaf springs were/are 3400 lb factory Mopar Super Stock springs (same both sides) and will be retained. Rear shocks were basic 50/50 drag shocks from whatever supplier was offering a quality piece at the time. Tires were 12.2 X 31.25 or "W", or 11.5 X 32. I seem to recall 15-16 lbs for pressure was normal for either car. Front shocks were 90/10 in the Duster and orange Koni's in the Cuda. I can tell you that the Cuda is much more of a wheelstand-prone car than the Duster, and required fairly tight front shocks. There is every reason to think that today's shocks all around would be an improvement.

The back-to-back improvement with the radials is impressive. I am curious as to a comparison between bias tires and radials in terms of pressure: Given one vs. the other of equal size and rollout, and on equal-width wheels, are there different pressure requirements/tendencies?

Given the advances in current technology, product offerings, and rules revisions, there is a LOT of catching up to do. Starting with "Square One" is the plan.

Bill Rolik

[steven reynolds]

Originally Posted by Bill Rolik

Mike,

Thanks much for the input, and impressive numbers!

I would think that the 327 would react exactly as you have said, given the shorter stroke which would produce less low end torque. The 340 Mopar is actually closer to a 327 in that regard than a 350, and with a longer and heavier rod.

Both my Duster previously, and the Cuda looking forward, utilized the Comp Engineering Ladder Link with retention loops and a housing slider. In those "thrilling days of yesteryear", a slight right-side preload added became basically a set-it-and-forget-it. Rear leaf springs were/are 3400 lb factory Mopar Super Stock springs (same both sides) and will be retained. Rear shocks were basic 50/50 drag shocks from whatever supplier was offering a quality piece at the time. Tires were 12.2 X 31.25 or "W", or 11.5 X 32. I seem to recall 15-16 lbs for pressure was normal for either car. Front shocks were 90/10 in the Duster and orange Koni's in the Cuda. I can tell you that the Cuda is much more of a wheelstand-prone car than the Duster, and required fairly tight front shocks. There is every reason to think that today's shocks all around would be an improvement.

The back-to-back improvement with the radials is impressive. I am curious as to a comparison between bias tires and radials in terms of pressure: Given one vs. the other of equal size and rollout, and on equal-width wheels, are there different pressure requirements/tendencies?

Given the advances in current technology, product offerings, and rules revisions, there is a LOT of catching up to do. Starting with "Square One" is the plan.

Bill Rolik

My wife & I race a 71 Demon with a big block, currently runs 10.20s in good air. Car has SS springs &
snubber only, don't want to do a complete back half, been thinking about ladder bars & housing floater.
What type of floater is on your Cuda, weld on or a bolt on type such as Comp Engineering offers?
Thanks Steve Reynolds

[Rod Greene]

Hi Bill you got the itch to race again nice to see it. Put a stick in it and double you fun. Steven Caltracs would work well on your car and a lot cheaper than ladder bars.
Someday the enhancements will stop and I will get enthused about my Challenger again.

[Bill Rolik]

Steve,

Send me your e-mail address and I will forward some photos of the floater arrangement.

My e-mail is bremotorsports@verizon.net

Thanks,

Bill Rolik

SS1514

[72Malibu]

Originally Posted by Dave Goob Cook

They are fast, stable to drive on, don't leak air ever, true tubeless, sidewalls last better, no growth, slim section width profile, no need for rim screws,...etc.

They work fine on my ride, Stock legal rear suspension, 3400-3600 two-step and 5250 stall coming off. Only 3250 lbs. or so, but 1.37 to 1.40's anywhere, anytime. Oh yeah, Atlas non-gas charged replacement shocks on the rear, and Stocker Stars on the front.

I like Goodyears, but that is for the compound selections, a Hoosier may be faster for some, on some tracks, but I bracket race.

Are those the single adjustable QA1 R series stocker stars Goob? I'm looking for a bit smoother landing than what I'm gettin with the KONI's.

[Jeff Lee]

AFCO offers two unique valving specs that are an option. BNC & BNR. Stands for Bull-nose Compression & Bull-nose Rebound. You would use BNC on the front and BNR on the rear. What that means is the initial hit on either compression or rebound is very solid and less so a as the shock goes through it's travel.
I just had my 4 AFCO's revalved to this but have yet to run them so I can't say if it's worth doing. I also had the rear valving stiffened up considerably from what was offered initially. But keep in mind I'm a stick racer.
Opposite of what Rod stated earlier, I will be running a light spring on my rear coil-overs. That allows you to pre-load the spring to get the ride height and when you launch that stored energy is put to use. Rod having the shocks in front of the rear may have something to do with this as there is less leverage working the shock / spring.