Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68 - Page 16

Terry Witzel · 10-30-2021, 03:33 PM

..Allie would have run either a '69 Mustang fastback or coupe 428 cj..

Bill Allie was a member of The Fastbacks racing team, but ran a '69 coupe with a vinyl top.

oldskool · 10-30-2021, 05:38 PM

"...NOTE this has some implications for Ben Wolf's car from Spring 69...a 69 Firebird RA4 factored at 380hp does not fit B/SA=8.00.

And, a 68 Firebird RA2 only fits if factored to 395hp or higher.

Would a RA2 be factored HIGHER than a RA4?.."

I don't have a clue what the NHRA hp factors were back in the old days. Where do you guys come up with that info ???

I've posted pics of both a '68 & '69 Bird marked B/SA. I know that the '69 was bought brand new, with a Ram Air 4 engine, by Phil Monteith.

BUT, I don't know what year the pics were made.

I do know that Phil switched the car over to SS, after a little while. Phil Is still quite active in Pontiac racing. As you may or may not know, Peter Biondo won at least 3 SS championships driving Phil Monteith's Pontiac powered GT Birds.

If you could contact Phil, I'll bet he could probably remember some facts from his early days with his '69 RA4 Bird.

Here's the latest FB page I can find for him. Don't look like he's active on it.

https://www.facebook.com/phillip.monteith.1

Mark Yacavone is one of his FB friends. He's active on his page & this forum. He can probably get you Phil's contact info.

Lynn McCarty is also a FB friend. He's active & knows LOTS of Pontiac racers. He can probably help you find most any Pontiac info you need, or knows somebody who does.

While thinkin about older Pontiac guys who might have info, the biggest name that comes to mind, is Bob Michael. He's built & raced more different Pontiac powered Stock & SS cars than anybody I know of.

He still has a couple of active stockers. One is a 389 Tri-Power '62 Grand Prix. The other is a '77 Catalina.

https://dragillustrated.com/life-lon...al-to-pontiac/

As you know, some guys seem willing to take time to talk about the old days & help you find info, but some don't. If Bob will talk, he's the guy I'd wanna talk to. He's had more Pontiac powered race experience than anybody I know of. And he knows all the other long time Pontiac racers. I think he's a member here. Can't remember his site name. Mark Yacavone will know.

Still thinkin. John Schloe still races a '69 Bird. Years ago, it had RA4 power. The story goes that he ruined a head. So, because of their rariety & price, he switched over to a D-port engine. But, he may have some good RA4 info, from years gone by. Not active on his FB page. But again, Mark Yacavone is a friend. So, he can probably provide contact info.

https://www.facebook.com/john.schloe.1/friends

John Angeles has raced a '69 RA4 Bird in SS, for years. He also co-wrote a Pontiac racing & performace book.

https://www.firebirdcentral.com/Pont...p/lit-2006.htm

His daughter, Keri, has done most of the driving, & was driving for it's 1st 9 sec pass, back in 2000, IIRC. Keri has a page, but is not active.

https://www.facebook.com/keri.pari

DeuceCoupe · 10-30-2021, 07:48 PM

I got lots of good factoring help mainly from Dwight Southerland here:

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...t=62510&page=9

That's where I got the RA4=380hp and other info above.

I've been trying to find all the NHRA "FACTORS" up thru 1971, after that the rules change so much I haven't taken on that era yet.

The Angeles-McCarthy book on that website is superb.
I bought my 1981 version in the 1990s at the Portland swap meet.
Highly suggested if you want to know anything about Pontiac V8s.

Is there any chance that Antlocer 61 Bubbletop on pg14 of Boyce maybe was R/U at 1961 Indy & not 1962 Indy?

This looks like the class final at 62 Indy.
Both cars have the "T" and are 2dr sedans not bubbletops like Antlocer / Packer so Iont see how the Packer bubbletop could be R/U at least at 62 Indy.

https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=867820

Zuckerberg has no customer service & they broke my account so havent been on Facebook in a while. Now they're changing their company name to META. Maybe I can get some META-customer-service, LOL.

Rat Patrol · 10-31-2021, 04:05 PM

O/S and DC

There’s a lot of stuff I have to go through....but lets deal with a couple of easy ones..

1 - I have Proffit driving a Chev at Indy 62, even a pic of his car in the winners circle....so not sure why you thought I listed it as a Pontiac?

2- The only possible error on Antlocer could be that it was not Faubel who was runner up inSS/SA Indy 62. I dont have a list of r/ups,and have not found a pic showing Faubel and Ekstrands 62 Rsmcharger pic racing each other...so there is a possibility Larry Davis got it wrong.

3- 62 Nats results lists Vanke as the driver of the Sasse/Vanke entry , Tin Indian 2.

.

Rat Patrol · 10-31-2021, 04:14 PM

AMX - I read about it being re-factored in an article on the web. The initial rating was farcical.

ALLIE - So the 71 Ragtop Mustang ran the same class in 71 as the Fastback in 69?

OVAL PORT - was the term used inthe 69 SuperStock Magazine

FOMOCO:
The big (3600 lb shipping wt, over 3800 lb on the street) Fastback Cobra/Cyclone indeed won several in SS/J=10.00 and SS/JA=10.00 classes. I have
Winter
Payne SS/J
Caster SS/JA
Spring
Payne SS/J
Glidden SS/JA
Indy
Johnson SS/JA Cyclone -

Gotcha - I completely overlooked winters and spring....and missed the J/SA at Indy. I was getting tired!

PONTIAC:
The Max Sterling picture is not a 62 Cat 421/405sd.
I think that picture in your writeup is a 61, maybe his previous car?
Here is a picture from Petersen of Max's *62* White Lightning car - I’ll fix that....thanks.

Rat Patrol · 10-31-2021, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeuceCoupe

I got lots of good factoring help mainly from Dwight Southerland here:

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...t=62510&page=9

Is there any chance that Antlocer 61 Bubbletop on pg14 of Boyce maybe was R/U at 1961 Indy & not 1962 Indy?

This looks like the class final at 62 Indy.
Both cars have the "T" and are 2dr sedans not bubbletops like Antlocer / Packer so Iont see how the Packer bubbletop could be R/U at least at 62 Indy.

https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=867820

Zuckerberg has no customer service & they broke my account so havent been on Facebook in a while. Now they're changing their company name to META. Maybe I can get some META-customer-service, LOL.

SS/S was current year only. So if the Antlocer car was a 61, it couldn't have r/up at 62 Indy inSS/SA.

You may be onto it.

Rat Patrol · 10-31-2021, 04:50 PM

Further - I have no r/up for 61 Indy S/SA (Cox). and only one confirmation that Don Turner did a solo run to win OS/SA

Which is more likely for the Antlocer car?

Rat Patrol · 10-31-2021, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry Witzel

..Allie would have run either a '69 Mustang fastback or coupe 428 cj..

Bill Allie was a member of The Fastbacks racing team, but ran a '69 coupe with a vinyl top.

Thx Terry 👍

oldskool · 10-31-2021, 04:56 PM

"...Is there any chance that Antlocer 61 Bubbletop on pg14 of Boyce maybe was R/U at 1961 Indy & not 1962 Indy?..."

I don't have a clue.

Maybe he was just mistaken about that RU finish.

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/200...agstrips-again

I just noticed this pic in the SS book. In the far lane of this 1st pic is the Myrtle Motors '67 Bird. Because of the way the A is written, I first thought it was marked A/SA. But, when I enlarged the pic, it actually looks to be H/SA.

That brings up the question:

Exactly which engine would a '67 Bird have to have, in order to run H/SA, back in the '60's ?

Since I have an old pic of a '67 400 RA Bird marked C/SA, I'd assume it would need to have a 326HO engine, to make H/SA. But, in the pic, the car has a 400 hood on it. Don't think a '67 400 RA Bird ever ran A class.

BUT, I do have at least 1 pic of Truman Fields '68 RA2 Bird marked A/S. But, that was in '72, which was one of the weird pure stock type years. So, I reckin it all depends on what year we are talkin about.

oldskool · 10-31-2021, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rat Patrol

Further - I have no r/up for 61 Indy S/SA (Cox). and only one confirmation that Don Turner did a solo run to win OS/SA

Which is more likely for the Antlocer car?

Pretty sure the Antlocer car had a 4-speed manual trans, therefore couldn't have run in an auto class.

Here's a pic of the '61 that Hayden Proffitt drove @ Indy '61. It has both S/S & OS/S on it. I'm guessing that lots of racers back then referred to lots of classes as "Super Stock", & sorta lumped 'em all together, rather than callin 'em Top Stock & calling each class by it's specific designation. With this in mind, don't know exactly which specific Super Stock class Antlocer was saying he ran.

10-30-2021, 03:33 PM	#151
Terry Witzel Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Marion,Ohio Posts: 247 Likes: 47 Liked 50 Times in 28 Posts	Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68 ..Allie would have run either a '69 Mustang fastback or coupe 428 cj.. Bill Allie was a member of The Fastbacks racing team, but ran a '69 coupe with a vinyl top.

10-30-2021, 05:38 PM	#152
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68 "...NOTE this has some implications for Ben Wolf's car from Spring 69...a 69 Firebird RA4 factored at 380hp does not fit B/SA=8.00. And, a 68 Firebird RA2 only fits if factored to 395hp or higher. Would a RA2 be factored HIGHER than a RA4?.." I don't have a clue what the NHRA hp factors were back in the old days. Where do you guys come up with that info ??? I've posted pics of both a '68 & '69 Bird marked B/SA. I know that the '69 was bought brand new, with a Ram Air 4 engine, by Phil Monteith. BUT, I don't know what year the pics were made. I do know that Phil switched the car over to SS, after a little while. Phil Is still quite active in Pontiac racing. As you may or may not know, Peter Biondo won at least 3 SS championships driving Phil Monteith's Pontiac powered GT Birds. If you could contact Phil, I'll bet he could probably remember some facts from his early days with his '69 RA4 Bird. Here's the latest FB page I can find for him. Don't look like he's active on it. https://www.facebook.com/phillip.monteith.1 Mark Yacavone is one of his FB friends. He's active on his page & this forum. He can probably get you Phil's contact info. Lynn McCarty is also a FB friend. He's active & knows LOTS of Pontiac racers. He can probably help you find most any Pontiac info you need, or knows somebody who does. While thinkin about older Pontiac guys who might have info, the biggest name that comes to mind, is Bob Michael. He's built & raced more different Pontiac powered Stock & SS cars than anybody I know of. He still has a couple of active stockers. One is a 389 Tri-Power '62 Grand Prix. The other is a '77 Catalina. https://dragillustrated.com/life-lon...al-to-pontiac/ As you know, some guys seem willing to take time to talk about the old days & help you find info, but some don't. If Bob will talk, he's the guy I'd wanna talk to. He's had more Pontiac powered race experience than anybody I know of. And he knows all the other long time Pontiac racers. I think he's a member here. Can't remember his site name. Mark Yacavone will know. Still thinkin. John Schloe still races a '69 Bird. Years ago, it had RA4 power. The story goes that he ruined a head. So, because of their rariety & price, he switched over to a D-port engine. But, he may have some good RA4 info, from years gone by. Not active on his FB page. But again, Mark Yacavone is a friend. So, he can probably provide contact info. https://www.facebook.com/john.schloe.1/friends John Angeles has raced a '69 RA4 Bird in SS, for years. He also co-wrote a Pontiac racing & performace book. https://www.firebirdcentral.com/Pont...p/lit-2006.htm His daughter, Keri, has done most of the driving, & was driving for it's 1st 9 sec pass, back in 2000, IIRC. Keri has a page, but is not active. https://www.facebook.com/keri.pari Last edited by oldskool; 10-30-2021 at 06:31 PM.

10-30-2021, 07:48 PM	#153
DeuceCoupe Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Posts: 274 Likes: 98 Liked 48 Times in 44 Posts	Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68 I got lots of good factoring help mainly from Dwight Southerland here: http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...t=62510&page=9 That's where I got the RA4=380hp and other info above. I've been trying to find all the NHRA "FACTORS" up thru 1971, after that the rules change so much I haven't taken on that era yet. The Angeles-McCarthy book on that website is superb. I bought my 1981 version in the 1990s at the Portland swap meet. Highly suggested if you want to know anything about Pontiac V8s. Is there any chance that Antlocer 61 Bubbletop on pg14 of Boyce maybe was R/U at 1961 Indy & not 1962 Indy? This looks like the class final at 62 Indy. Both cars have the "T" and are 2dr sedans not bubbletops like Antlocer / Packer so Iont see how the Packer bubbletop could be R/U at least at 62 Indy. https://archive.petersen.org/pages/p...php?ref=867820 Zuckerberg has no customer service & they broke my account so havent been on Facebook in a while. Now they're changing their company name to META. Maybe I can get some META-customer-service, LOL. Last edited by DeuceCoupe; 10-30-2021 at 07:53 PM.

10-31-2021, 04:05 PM	#154
Rat Patrol Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 169 Likes: 68 Liked 31 Times in 26 Posts	Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68 O/S and DC There’s a lot of stuff I have to go through....but lets deal with a couple of easy ones.. 1 - I have Proffit driving a Chev at Indy 62, even a pic of his car in the winners circle....so not sure why you thought I listed it as a Pontiac? 2- The only possible error on Antlocer could be that it was not Faubel who was runner up inSS/SA Indy 62. I dont have a list of r/ups,and have not found a pic showing Faubel and Ekstrands 62 Rsmcharger pic racing each other...so there is a possibility Larry Davis got it wrong. 3- 62 Nats results lists Vanke as the driver of the Sasse/Vanke entry , Tin Indian 2. . Last edited by Rat Patrol; 10-31-2021 at 04:09 PM.

10-31-2021, 04:14 PM	#155
Rat Patrol Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 169 Likes: 68 Liked 31 Times in 26 Posts	Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68 AMX - I read about it being re-factored in an article on the web. The initial rating was farcical. ALLIE - So the 71 Ragtop Mustang ran the same class in 71 as the Fastback in 69? OVAL PORT - was the term used inthe 69 SuperStock Magazine FOMOCO: The big (3600 lb shipping wt, over 3800 lb on the street) Fastback Cobra/Cyclone indeed won several in SS/J=10.00 and SS/JA=10.00 classes. I have Winter Payne SS/J Caster SS/JA Spring Payne SS/J Glidden SS/JA Indy Johnson SS/JA Cyclone - Gotcha - I completely overlooked winters and spring....and missed the J/SA at Indy. I was getting tired! PONTIAC: The Max Sterling picture is not a 62 Cat 421/405sd. I think that picture in your writeup is a 61, maybe his previous car? Here is a picture from Petersen of Max's 62 White Lightning car - I’ll fix that....thanks. Last edited by Rat Patrol; 10-31-2021 at 04:41 PM.

10-31-2021, 04:50 PM	#157
Rat Patrol Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 169 Likes: 68 Liked 31 Times in 26 Posts	Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68 Further - I have no r/up for 61 Indy S/SA (Cox). and only one confirmation that Don Turner did a solo run to win OS/SA Which is more likely for the Antlocer car?

10-31-2021, 04:56 PM	#159
oldskool VIP Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: The Land of Bayous, Boudin & Crawfish Posts: 1,668 Likes: 223 Liked 747 Times in 362 Posts	Re: Project - NHRA Stock and S/S results 61-68 "...Is there any chance that Antlocer 61 Bubbletop on pg14 of Boyce maybe was R/U at 1961 Indy & not 1962 Indy?..." I don't have a clue. Maybe he was just mistaken about that RU finish. https://www.hemmings.com/stories/200...agstrips-again I just noticed this pic in the SS book. In the far lane of this 1st pic is the Myrtle Motors '67 Bird. Because of the way the A is written, I first thought it was marked A/SA. But, when I enlarged the pic, it actually looks to be H/SA. That brings up the question: Exactly which engine would a '67 Bird have to have, in order to run H/SA, back in the '60's ? Since I have an old pic of a '67 400 RA Bird marked C/SA, I'd assume it would need to have a 326HO engine, to make H/SA. But, in the pic, the car has a 400 hood on it. Don't think a '67 400 RA Bird ever ran A class. BUT, I do have at least 1 pic of Truman Fields '68 RA2 Bird marked A/S. But, that was in '72, which was one of the weird pure stock type years. So, I reckin it all depends on what year we are talkin about. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by oldskool; 10-31-2021 at 06:53 PM.

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