Automatic Horsepower Factoring System - Page 5

Dick Butler · 04-03-2008, 05:34 PM

Lynn, Maybe with time Nhra will accept TOP/STK and TOP/SS and a couple wt breaks as Heads up at points meets as well as Opens Then people who like that will have a choice . Dick

Evan Smith · 04-03-2008, 06:21 PM

Jim,

I also think a 2-3 tenth reduction of the indexes is a good answer. I think that is probably the direction that it will go, however, I would like more input, before trying to push something through. But those who I have spoken to so far seem to agree. On the other end of that, I'm sure the very small percentage of racers who are hovering on the current indexes can do some easy things that to find the same 2-3 tenths.

Evan

vic guilmino · 04-03-2008, 08:21 PM

ok put index to -.3
and go back to 1.00 under triggers

Jim Cimarolli · 04-03-2008, 08:32 PM

I was around back in the '80's when NHRA added 2 tenths to all the indexes. One reason given by NHRA was because there were always about 4 or 5 racers at the bottom of the ladder that were struggling to be able to run the number and it would also lower the hurdle for new racers to get involved.
After about a year it was the same guys that were struggling to make it under again.

bsa633 · 04-03-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Cimarolli

I was around back in the '80's when NHRA added 2 tenths to all the indexes. One reason given by NHRA was because there were always about 4 or 5 racers at the bottom of the ladder that were struggling to be able to run the number and it would also lower the hurdle for new racers to get involved.
After about a year it was the same guys that were struggling to make it under again.

actually i think it was in 93 they raised them...but i am with Jim B. give those .2 back + another one for starters.. .5 would work to even better in the long run! and have a group of individuals(not racers) to manually clear up the the ones that will be to far ahead,,

Dick Butler · 04-03-2008, 09:54 PM

If the sandbagging and fear of running fast is what people are complaining about how will lowering the index help?Would the trigger be lowered too? Does that do anything? except make a number less under. Does it affect the HP problem some cars show?

SS Engine Guy · 04-03-2008, 11:45 PM

This isn't a numbers game in a casino. Lower what ever you want. The fast will still be as far under and the bogus hp factors will still be bogus.

Bruce Noland · 04-04-2008, 07:21 AM

Lowering the indexes by .30 is the fair and honest solution for everyone. National events are all run affairs any way.

Dick Butler · 04-04-2008, 09:48 AM

Bruce, You state lowering the index .3 is the "solution". What is the problem? If it the fear of being factored then yes. If it is to make the Bogus Hp combinations better controlled, NO no effect. Moving the trigger will not effect it either...
The current "problem" appears to be that it does not sort out Fast cars from hard work by extensive numbers of cars and hard working numbers of racers from one off Bogus cars discovered by Book work. Yes theses cars have work too but they start out soft for multiple reasons mainly being just allowed as they are in the book.This needs to be addressed by the Committee.
Require a person to file a letter of intent to run a combo before they dig out the 50 year old 2 x4 manifolds and make a mockery of the factoring system. Common sense initial factoring should be required. The same holds for new stuff with exotic technology allowed as a way to get new cars into the eliminator by unreasonable low expectations on numbers for HP.

Ron Ortiz · 04-04-2008, 09:56 AM

I am one of those racers that used to be close to the index, and with some work have managed to get faster. Recently I tried some newer components and have managed to get back to square one, only running about 3 tenths under. I know of other racers that sometimes are near the indexes. I DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF LOWERING THE INDEXES. It does nothing except help the people that run very fast from getting horsepower. The lowering of indexes was done to bring more people into the category, not to punish people from going too fast. There are so many bogus combos, parts, etc. that need to be addressed first. The AHFS cannot work as long as these things exist. Fast guys are jamming on the brakes to protect their HP, and NHRA keeps telling you to stop it because it is a safety thing. But do they enforce it, NO. I can't tell you how much smoke I have seen comming off the front tires of people trying to make it close with my 14 second slug at the finish line, What happens, they are told "if you do that again we are going to DQ you" Do they ever get DQ'd , NO, it's a bunch of bull. I watch cars from the stands at the finish line and see so much sand bagging it's disgusting. This is a performance based category, and it has turned into a circus. No one wants to go too fast, but they want to be the fastest. A bunch of bull.

NHRA needs to start tracking every run and all incremintal times from the 60' to the finish line to detemine what the vehicles really are capable of. They need to implement a system that accounts for weather and altitude tracks, and I know it can be done with todays technology. They need to start enforing their own interpretation of the rules they made. When some guy out in the middle of nowhere hits your combo with a fast run, you get penalized even though there are differences in the two combos. Is that fair, no a bunch of bull. Someone goes out and goes 1.50 under and is immediatelly hit with HP. Are they torn down first to make sure it was legit? If they are legit then they deserve HP because it was factored wrong in the first place. Superceded parts are another joke, it's given to some but not others, and you wonder why the AHFS is not working. I read where people have a varied view of the way things should be done, lower the indexes, lower the trigger, leave it alone, allow certain things, .50 under to win class, more teardowns, no paper cars, give us more parts, STOP IT.
There is nothing wrong with the current indexes. Eliminate the trigger system, let the fast cars go fast, stop the sand bagging, enforce the rules correctly, this is Stock Eliminator, a PERFORMANCE BASED category. If you want more liberal rules or parts, go to Super Stock.

Ron Ortiz
U/SA .3 under and still competitive.

04-03-2008, 05:34 PM	#41
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System Lynn, Maybe with time Nhra will accept TOP/STK and TOP/SS and a couple wt breaks as Heads up at points meets as well as Opens Then people who like that will have a choice . Dick

04-03-2008, 06:21 PM	#42
Evan Smith Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Tampa Posts: 400 Likes: 7 Liked 115 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System Jim, I also think a 2-3 tenth reduction of the indexes is a good answer. I think that is probably the direction that it will go, however, I would like more input, before trying to push something through. But those who I have spoken to so far seem to agree. On the other end of that, I'm sure the very small percentage of racers who are hovering on the current indexes can do some easy things that to find the same 2-3 tenths. Evan __________________ Evan Smith 1798 STK

04-03-2008, 08:21 PM	#43
vic guilmino Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: wv Posts: 884 Likes: 42 Liked 56 Times in 21 Posts	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System ok put index to -.3 and go back to 1.00 under triggers __________________ Vic Guilmino 1129 STK

04-03-2008, 08:32 PM	#44
Jim Cimarolli Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Sulphur Springs Texas Posts: 743 Likes: 146 Liked 166 Times in 46 Posts	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System I was around back in the '80's when NHRA added 2 tenths to all the indexes. One reason given by NHRA was because there were always about 4 or 5 racers at the bottom of the ladder that were struggling to be able to run the number and it would also lower the hurdle for new racers to get involved. After about a year it was the same guys that were struggling to make it under again.

04-03-2008, 09:54 PM	#46
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System If the sandbagging and fear of running fast is what people are complaining about how will lowering the index help?Would the trigger be lowered too? Does that do anything? except make a number less under. Does it affect the HP problem some cars show?

04-03-2008, 11:45 PM	#47
SS Engine Guy Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: usa Posts: 256 Likes: 1 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System This isn't a numbers game in a casino. Lower what ever you want. The fast will still be as far under and the bogus hp factors will still be bogus. Last edited by SS Engine Guy; 04-04-2008 at 02:18 AM.

04-04-2008, 07:21 AM	#48
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System Lowering the indexes by .30 is the fair and honest solution for everyone. National events are all run affairs any way. __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

04-04-2008, 09:48 AM	#49
Dick Butler VIP Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Richmond Indiana Posts: 1,196 Likes: 5 Liked 32 Times in 19 Posts	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System Bruce, You state lowering the index .3 is the "solution". What is the problem? If it the fear of being factored then yes. If it is to make the Bogus Hp combinations better controlled, NO no effect. Moving the trigger will not effect it either... The current "problem" appears to be that it does not sort out Fast cars from hard work by extensive numbers of cars and hard working numbers of racers from one off Bogus cars discovered by Book work. Yes theses cars have work too but they start out soft for multiple reasons mainly being just allowed as they are in the book.This needs to be addressed by the Committee. Require a person to file a letter of intent to run a combo before they dig out the 50 year old 2 x4 manifolds and make a mockery of the factoring system. Common sense initial factoring should be required. The same holds for new stuff with exotic technology allowed as a way to get new cars into the eliminator by unreasonable low expectations on numbers for HP.

04-04-2008, 09:56 AM	#50
Ron Ortiz Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Englewood, Florida Posts: 989 Likes: 35 Liked 317 Times in 103 Posts	Re: Automatic Horsepower Factoring System I am one of those racers that used to be close to the index, and with some work have managed to get faster. Recently I tried some newer components and have managed to get back to square one, only running about 3 tenths under. I know of other racers that sometimes are near the indexes. I DO NOT LIKE THE IDEA OF LOWERING THE INDEXES. It does nothing except help the people that run very fast from getting horsepower. The lowering of indexes was done to bring more people into the category, not to punish people from going too fast. There are so many bogus combos, parts, etc. that need to be addressed first. The AHFS cannot work as long as these things exist. Fast guys are jamming on the brakes to protect their HP, and NHRA keeps telling you to stop it because it is a safety thing. But do they enforce it, NO. I can't tell you how much smoke I have seen comming off the front tires of people trying to make it close with my 14 second slug at the finish line, What happens, they are told "if you do that again we are going to DQ you" Do they ever get DQ'd , NO, it's a bunch of bull. I watch cars from the stands at the finish line and see so much sand bagging it's disgusting. This is a performance based category, and it has turned into a circus. No one wants to go too fast, but they want to be the fastest. A bunch of bull. NHRA needs to start tracking every run and all incremintal times from the 60' to the finish line to detemine what the vehicles really are capable of. They need to implement a system that accounts for weather and altitude tracks, and I know it can be done with todays technology. They need to start enforing their own interpretation of the rules they made. When some guy out in the middle of nowhere hits your combo with a fast run, you get penalized even though there are differences in the two combos. Is that fair, no a bunch of bull. Someone goes out and goes 1.50 under and is immediatelly hit with HP. Are they torn down first to make sure it was legit? If they are legit then they deserve HP because it was factored wrong in the first place. Superceded parts are another joke, it's given to some but not others, and you wonder why the AHFS is not working. I read where people have a varied view of the way things should be done, lower the indexes, lower the trigger, leave it alone, allow certain things, .50 under to win class, more teardowns, no paper cars, give us more parts, STOP IT. There is nothing wrong with the current indexes. Eliminate the trigger system, let the fast cars go fast, stop the sand bagging, enforce the rules correctly, this is Stock Eliminator, a PERFORMANCE BASED category. If you want more liberal rules or parts, go to Super Stock. Ron Ortiz U/SA .3 under and still competitive. __________________ Ron Ortiz 2102 STK