Ol' Fart's Firebird Fantasy

[oldskool]

[QUOTE=Dwight Southerland;459262]

http://fortsmith.craigslist.org/cto/4841158976.html[/URL]



Hey thanks for the links. That Lemans in Fort Smith looks interesting. Wish it was a little closer, so I could go check it out. Google says I'm over 350 miles and nearly 6 hours from there.

But I think I'll contact him anyhow, for more details. Thanks again !

Just sent an E-mail for more info.

[oldskool]

Since this is an AZ car, it probably don't have a whole lot of serious rust, and would make somebody a good "start from scratch" Stocker. But I don't live close to AZ. Cars like this, in my area, have long since rusted down and were taken to the crusher--engine, trans and all.

http://www.carsforsale.com/used-cars...n-az-229449966

And if I had more $ than I could spend, I'd probably buy this one, just because I love black and it's about the best lookin '72 Lemans I've seen.

http://www.carsforsale.com/used-cars...s-mi-228466100

[64wgn]

If that wagon really has new paint and good interior it probably isnt to far outta line. Make him a lower offer , grab a cheap flight and drive that baby home!!!

[Robert Swartz]

My buddy and I have a 79 T/A. It's in pieces, definitely a project. It has split mono leafs and a well prepped 10 bolt with all the good Strange parts in it. Have a mild steel rollbar and subframe connectors, not installed. Have Cal-tracs.

Also have a quarter panel, don't remember which side. Also have patch panels for both sides. Gas tank already removed. No engine or tranny. Still have original 10 bolt and honeycomb wheels. Probably a lot of other stuff that could go as well, just need to look.

Was originally going to be IHRA crate motor car. Moved onto other projects.

[oldskool]

Originally Posted by Robert Swartz

My buddy and I have a 79 T/A. It's in pieces, definitely a project. It has split mono leafs and a well prepped 10 bolt with all the good Strange parts in it. Have a mild steel rollbar and subframe connectors, not installed. Have Cal-tracs.

Also have a quarter panel, don't remember which side. Also have patch panels for both sides. Gas tank already removed. No engine or tranny. Still have original 10 bolt and honeycomb wheels. Probably a lot of other stuff that could go as well, just need to look.

Was originally going to be IHRA crate motor car. Moved onto other projects.

Yeah, I've thought about the '79's. They can be used for a '79-'81 model. But except for the little 301, the only other Pontiac engine is the '79 with a W72 400. But it only came with a 4-speed. So I assume NHRA will not let you run an auto in a '79 400. I reckin you can replace the nose and tail with the '77-'78 style and claim one of those years. But, that's money and labor. Would probably only be worth it if you already have the parts, and find a real bargain '79-'81.

Since that was the peak production year for Birds, there are more of them out there for sale than any other Bird. So, I've found more '79 bargains than anything else. Just a few years back, I bought a '79 bracket Bird roller for $400. It had been run with a BBC. Had a 6-point, racing seat and belts, 8.5 ten bolt with 4.10 gears, batt cut off, 4 Weld wheels, 9" slicks and small fronts, one of the big $200 + hood scoops, and BBC headers with 18" collector extensions.

Now I realize that bargains like this don't come along every day. But I live in an area where the economy is considered "depressed". And if you can catch somebody at just the right time, you can find some real deals around here. Then, of course, there are a few guys around here who know what old cars are worth, who try to buy up all the bargains, then jack up the price to make a big profit.

The reason I even went to look at this car is because he told me it was a '78. But when I saw what a bargain it was, I bought it anyhow. But, I bought my '74 Vent and the '69 T 350HO Stocker I mentioned, so I didn't need the '79 Bird. I kept all the racing parts except the rear end, and traded the rest for some Pontiac engine parts.

Never took any full shots of it. Here's the only partial I can find. It shows a Weld wheel, the hood scoop, and holes in the quarter where they had the outside batt charging lugs.

[oldskool]

If the bottom ain't rotted out, this might make somebody a good 350 engine car. I've read that the salt eats up the bottom of some of these northern cars.

http://classiccars.com/listings/view...michigan-49601

Here's a former National record holder.

[oldskool]

Now if you're gonna build a car that will just barely run under it's index, you will need to be concerned about heads up races with someone in your class. So, I'm thinkin that when planning which class to run, It would be a good idea to try to run a class which has fewer cars in it.

So, I decided to look at the field of cars at some of last years races to see which classes had the most cars. The US Nationals has the biggest field. So that's where I looked 1st.

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCSt...r2014#indextop

Of the possible classes that I might run, it seems that there were more G/SA cars than anything else, with 13. Next was F/SA with 8 cars and E/SA with 7. Then H/SA & K/SA had 6 cars each. I/SA had 3 and J, L, M & N/SA had only 2 cars each.

Now I realize that a barely under car would not qualify at Indy. But I chose to look at this race 1st cause it had the biggest field. So if this race had been an all run race, I would have had the least chance of a heads up race by running in I, J, L, M or N/SA.

But since I would be going only to races in my division 4, it would probably be better for me to consider only those division 4 races to determine the better classes to run to avoid a heads up run. So, I'll take a look.

OK, at the 1st division race, there were 7 cars in G/SA. So that is a class I do not need to run.

The classes with no cars entered were J, K, & N/SA.

2nd race: There were 4 G/SA cars. K/SA had no cars.

3rd race: There were 6 H/SA & 4 G/SA cars, but no K/SA cars.

4th race: There were 5 G & H/SA cars, no L or N/SA cars.

5th race: There were 6 in G/SA, 4 each in H & I/SA, no
K, M or N/SA cars.

So, from the races in my division it looks like K/SA would be my best choice, followed by N/SA. Now that is strictly from a no heads up racing stand point. The worst class I could run is G/SA, followed by H/SA, then I/SA. To run any of these 3 classes would mean an almost certain heads-up lost.

So, in order to try and look at this thing from every angle, in the next post we'll look up some combos that would put me in either K/SA or N/SA.

[brent flynn]

I hate to show you this, but i have the 7m5 heads, intake, trw 455 shortblock, and even a legal stocker cam, to make this thing run easily under the index...also have a 2.75 low gear 400 trans, and 4200 ATi converter...heck i even have some 1 3/4'' headers for it... it is my next project... It runs 13.60s right now, with 235/75 mastercrafts, and log manifolds...it has 462/cast pistons/6x heads/3.90 gears currently....and ive won 2 Wednesday night test and tune trophies with it, in 5 outings...i drove it to work, today...hehe .

[Rat Raceway]

That is a killer wagon Brent!

[oldskool]

OK, I'll do some diggin and come up with several combos that will put me in K/SA. The weight break for it is 13.00 lbs/hp, and the index is 12.65.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/NHRA_Classes.aspx

Well, if I use the '72 455 we've discussed, I'll need one of the "Tons a Fun" Lemans wagons. Hey, I can live with that.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2068

Next, I could run a '73 250hp 455. I could run farther under with a Bird, since the hp factor for 'em is 306. But, to make K with that engine I can use a Luxury Lemans, a GTO, or a GP. Hey, you can race just about anything with wheels on it. But I don't like the looks of the rear of the '73 Lemans and GTO. I'd much prefer the look of the GP.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2079

The '74 250hp 455 is almost identical to the '73--same heads. So to make K with it I'd need a Grand Am or a GP. Once again, I'd prefer a GP.

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...px?ENGINE=2092

I'd really prefer to run a 455 combo, because of it's low end torque, and lower operating rpm. But I'll go ahead and check out some options with smaller engines. I'll start with the 400. Most of the earlier years have an NHRA factor that is equal to or higher than the 455's. But some of the later model, low comp 400's have a decent factor.

The best one I see is the '77, with a 260hp factor, in anything except a Bird. All the big cars were downsized that year. So I could make K with Cats, Bonnies, 2-door Lemans models, and a Can Am. Of these, I'd much rather run the Can Am. But that's now sort of a high dollar collector car. So, one of the others would have to do. I'm thinkin that if you can find a good clean one, that one of the Cats or Bonnies would be the cheapest. And would probably look a bit better too.(at least to me)

http://www.classracerinfo.com/Engine...spx?ENGINE=764

I just checked out the 350 engines. To me, they are factored too close to the 400 factors, and give up 50 cubes. So I would not try to run a 350.

OK, to summarize this post, for K/SA, as of right now, I'd prefer to run a 455 in either '72, '73 'or '74. The '72 would be in a Lemans wagon. Both the '73 and '74 would be in a Grand Prix. But, I haven't seen any GP's racing. There may be a good reason--don't know yet.