2015 Rules

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Marlin Bogner

Oct 31 was the first that I heard of the SS/CS head problem. but what problem? I feel that GM, Ford and Mopar were very even with GM having the slight edge. We all Crack heads. I have had to back out of CFM for reliability, Why can't GM? We are using the basic W-2 head which came out 40 plus years ago. there is nothing else. Again, GM racers get there way. How many Ford racers knew what was going on? I thought we had the class back on course when we stopped the GM racers wanting the aluminum heads.

Marlin, I was building a Ford Mustang to run SS/CS. I learned about it from my cylinder head guy on November 2013. He was already building a set of GM LS cast iron heads for a customer to run in SS/CS. I also posted about this issue earlier this year on 01/14/2014. You can read about it in Page 4 of the link shown below.

http://classracer.com/classforum/sho...+degree&page=4

I called Pat in Glendora and informed him the LS cast iron head is a truck cylinder head only available for a few years. He told me that as long it was an inline cylinder head an had an OEM part number, it was legal.

Also called Bruce and he confirmed the upcoming allowance of cast iron aftermarket cylinder heads in the class. I made him aware of the 14 degree cast iron GM head, same as used in Nostalgia dragster and he did not comment.

The Chevy Bowtie cylinder heads are available in 3 different volume sizes. racers are using the larger volume size. The cylinder head is used in many circle track classes and this is the first time I hear about cracking issues. My own cylinder head guy says it is just an excuse to justify the use of aftermarket heads by GM racers.

As I read the current proposed rule, if what Venice stated there are only specific heads allowed. Currently the amendment says: "Aftermarket iron heads permitted in CS. If they intend to only have specific cylinder heads, then I believe the rule must have language such as: "Only NHRA accepted aftermarket iron heads permitted."

[Bob Lasko]

At this time do we know if more than the Dart head is available permitted by NHRA???
Also heard that the dart head do "not" make any more power than the GM heads, they are thicker and probably will not crack after porting. My head only cracked on the external part of the head above head bolts. Told because the head surface had to much angle milled.

Being one of the longest CS drivers, what ever after market company gets approved, the head for GM should remain 23 degrees. Would save some money in combinations, Intake and maybe pistons. Back when the class was created it was for what was available at the time(cast iron) in the 70's, modified eliminator days. For GM it was the 23 degree heads, I believe the turbo heads. MY opinion only.

Bob Lasko
1134
SS/CS

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Bob Lasko

At this time do we know if more than the Dart head is available permitted by NHRA???
Also head that the dart head do "not" make any more power than the GM heads, they are thicker and probably will not crack after porting. My head only cracked on the external part of the head above head bolts. Told because the head surface had to much angle milled.

Being one of the longest CS drivers, what ever after market company gets approved, the head for GM should remain 23 degrees. Would save some money in combinations, Intake and maybe pistons. Back when the class was created it was for what was available at the time(cast iron) in the 70's, modified eliminator days. For GM it was the 23 degree heads, I believe the turbo heads. MY opinion only.

Bob Lasko
1134
SS/CS

Dart offers a 23 degree Iron Eagle Platinum 230cc Intake runner cast iron head with a 49cc chamber flowing 308 CFM's out of the box. World Products offers the Motown 23 degree cast iron head with a 220cc Intake runner. Let's not forget that there are still some of the RHS/Pro Topline, 23 degree cast iron heads out there with as cast, 245cc intake runners too.

[Ven302]

Bruce told me directly the two part numbers I dont have the numbers here at home, but I looked them up right away and one was the existing Dart 180 cc currently legal in the traditional classes, the other IS the 230cc/49cc Dart previously mentioned, Those are the only two on the list as of my conversation with Bruce.

Regarding Mr Bogner's comment about cracking, I agree, if your heads are cracking then maybe you just went to far? I have two sets of N heads that have cracked ironically across the exhaust face from the head bolt bosses, wrote it off as just bad castings. Manned up and built another set.

[Mike Schwartz]

Were there any 'non-Factory Stock' combinations running in the 6.00 to 6.49, 6.50 to 6.99 or 7.00 to 7.49 classes in Stock? If so, where do they fit now?

Do they have to add weight to fit the 7.50-7.99 class or could they run with the FS cars? Or are they ineligible to race now?

(Reference pg 29 of the 2014-2015 amendment.)

[joe176]

Am I reading the rules revision right ??? It looks like chassis certification won't be enforced every 3 years ???

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by joe176

Am I reading the rules revision right ??? It looks like chassis certification won't be enforced every 3 years ???

It's unchanged. They just moved it to General Regulations.

[Travis Miller]

Originally Posted by Mike Schwartz

Were there any 'non-Factory Stock' combinations running in the 6.00 to 6.49, 6.50 to 6.99 or 7.00 to 7.49 classes in Stock? If so, where do they fit now?

Do they have to add weight to fit the 7.50-7.99 class or could they run with the FS cars? Or are they ineligible to race now?

(Reference pg 29 of the 2014-2015 amendment.)

According to Nitro Joe's Stats for 2014 only one 1969 Camaro ran in BB/SA. It was a 427 430/445 with a natural BB/SA classification. At another race the same car added weight and ran CC/SA. For 2015 any older car that falls 7.49 or higher in Stock must add weight and move to the new 7.50 AA class.

[Mike Mans]

Originally Posted by 71mavlouisville

Personally think the rule change in CS sucks.

Best runs ever (as far as I know off the top of my head, correct if wrong)

9.26 - Mans - Chevy
9.27 - Perno - Ford
9.28 - Bogner - Mopar

Will there be a list of accepted heads?

Same thing happened in A/ND, one brand (chevy) with a 14 degree head can go to 300 CC and flow more than 400 cfm.

This made Ford and Mopar obsolete in the class, WTF, had great parity and now only Chevy!

If anyone knows a Ford or Mopar head that can compete with this, I am in the Market.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Heads/1851...-400-CFM-.html

We were told a couple years ago that 1-2 Dart head castings would be made legal for the Chevrolet CS class, but they would remain a 23* head with standard port location. No raised runner 15-18-23* stuff like the Pro-Action or RHS castings, as the intention is just to replace the GM Bowtie heads. Something that would utilize the same manifolds, pistons, etc... We had even started an R&D effort around these heads, and found no power gains to be had - other than hopefully increased longevity.

From what we have been told, it is still only going to be an "Accepted" list of aftermarket castings. So they have definitely worded this update incorrectly if that is the case. Hopefully they will make a revision on this line item soon for everyone's clarification.

Small correction - we ran 9.22 @143 in Belle Rose back in 2009. That's everything we had! SS/CS is a very fun class with some great competition, and I surely hope it maintains it's health. In 2011 David Bogner, James Antonette Jr. and myself all finished in the Top 10 nationally while running CS - it's definitely a well represented class.

Mike Mans

[cudadoug]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

Just looked into my crystal ball and it told me aluminum radiators will cost 20% more in the near future.

They'll also need an SFI cert every 2 years...